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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 27, 2019 04:07PM

Here's my read on this:

1. There are Some Things they can do such as preventing those who initiate a divorce without sufficient justification from using church property to remarry.
2. Denying that churchco members/leaders (i.e. PH) officiate
3. others?

OK, here's why they don't:

a. I believe most MORMON divorces are initiated by women, members they need for their base of support.

b. Further, many if not most are done b/c (either) spouse 'fell away from the Lord's ONLY TRUE CLUB'...
Got to signal THAT'S WRONG, don't they?

Divorce is the biggest threat to ChurchCo Families, not SSM, not transgender folks, not even 'intellectuals'!

d. others?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 01:44PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: Fascinated in the Midwest ( )
Date: January 27, 2019 04:25PM

Interesting topic! There will be less tithing money since research shows the income in a household headed by a divorced woman will be less than for the newly-divorced man. Over time, generally it is the women who suffer economically after a divorce.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 03:29AM

My wife at the time thought it was great fun to get me in trouble with the law, over nothing but her bogus complaints, just because she could, just because the legal system is so blatantly biased against males. Of course the fact that she had a dirty cop deputy Marshall boyfriend helped her out quite a bit too.

I am proud to say, that I worked things out so that EVERY dollar of my criminal defense legal costs came out of her equity claims in the divorce settlement. Not half, ALL of it. Of course, it helped me that I had an employer that was totally sick of her BS harassment of me and of me being arrested so many times over nothing, so that they were quite willing to help me out.

I learned a lot from my divorce. If I knew then what I know now, she would get NOTHING when I was done getting rid of her.

She laughed when I got arrested. Third party witnesses stated that they thought Candid camera must have been being taped because she was laughing so hard over my one arrest that she orchestrated. When she got her highly diminished divorce settlement, suddenly things were NOT nearly as funny.

That 911 call cost her 30 grand .......or about 10 grand for every time she punched a number on her phone key pad.

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 11:08PM

smirkorama Wrote:

> ...me being arrested so many times over nothing...

Wow. Your own wife had you arrested, three times?

Talk about NOT having a home life where someone is on your side.

Glad you got away, Smirk!

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: January 29, 2019 03:05AM

thanks, for your support

since you asked and then for the sake of accuracy in proving my larger point that the system really is abusive to males, because rather than having a tendency to embellish on the matter, I really hate to concede that the nut case known as my wife was so successful in having her way to cause trouble for me, I was arrested 4 times relative to my divorce. The first three arrests were directly orchestrated by her. My probation officer had finally caught on to her BS games by then and was finally on my side. The last arrest was out of pure spite by the AP&P office administrator and the stupid MORmON judge who would say that he despises bullies but who NEVER failed to be a bully in his handling of me, to get back at me for my unwavering insistence that I had never done anything that justified his conviction of me. .....Then gain, as far as blame for all four of those arrests goes, I NEVER would have been in that precarious position for the fourth and last arrest IF my nut case wife had not started up with her MORmON style BS in the first place.

My probation officer had actually recommended me for early release from probation as he had caught on to the reality that my wife was the real problem in the situation. I was living at my mother in law's house by then, because I could not stay at my house because my nut case wife with a protection order against me would come to my house and then have her cop boy friend arrest me for violating the Protective Order, so I had to move in with HER mother for my own protection.
SO, My probation officer had recommended me for early release from probation but his boss and the nasty vicious sanctimonious MORmON judge just could not stand the proposal for my early release from probation. They hated it. And they hated me when I kept saying that my wife was the real problem in the situation.

So they denied the request for my early release from probation, made me go another 3 months to full term on my probation, then when I went full term, they issued an order for my arrest based on NOTHING before I was terminated from probation just to further punish me just as much as they could just because they could. I was going to be slipping out of their grasp at the termination of my probation, and they wanted to score one more bully style beat down arrest and jailing of me before I was completely out of their grasp just to show what great big Heroes they were. It was total BS.

After that HORRIBLE experience, there was NO WAY that I was ever going to give the legal system the chance to have that kind of HOSTILE ABUSIVE leverage over me again. They had proven to me that their preferred mode of operation was to arrest the man first, ask questions later.

All that stuff about innocent until proven guilty sounds great .....and it is PURE BULL SHIT !!! Not being vulnerable in the future, meant cutting off ALL future contact with the piece of trash spouse that I was definitely going to divorce. Eliminating all contact with that nut case definitely included visitation.

Just like THE (MORmON) church, that sanctimonious MORmON judge would tell people that he was the greatest advocate of family values and strengthening families that had ever lived / existed, hence his lip service to that theme by telling me not to divorce my nut case spouse, who had gone insane and then wrecked our marriage due to fully submitting to influences that originated from MORmON sources.


No doubt that judge would have put me in jail for finalizing my divorce IF he could have, and then told me that it was for my own good, just like the MORmON church tells us that every burden it imposed on us was really for own good. Well, I have my own program for my own good, and my program says to get rid of ALL needless burdens, especially burdens that come from entities who feel so completely entitled to make demands on others for supposed greater good when their demands are really based on their own gratification.

In reality, as far as me ever being able to have any contact with my (former) children in the future, that judge may as well have murdered me in his court room as he convicted me over nothing except his pathological personal need to pose as an ultimate advocate of family values (....at any cost to male parents) and to show off to my wife at the time. (FTR, HE can have her !!!!!) He did murder me as a male parent. I never saw my children again. And it was not just me. My parents never saw those grand kids again either,ever. HER parents never saw those grand kids again.

But don't worry!! The (MORmON) church's image is still totally pristine as MORmONISM is the greatest ever advocate and promoter and vanguard of strengthening and keeping families together! You can not disagree when LD$ inc says so !!!! And they always will be the greatest advocate of families (just as long as they can keep collecting their tithing / temple attendance dues to maintain their MORmON empire). They have a decree on how important families are !!!

Just ask them about how important they are to families !!!

BTW, just guess how effective that the judge's instructions to not follow through with the divorce were.

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: January 29, 2019 12:47PM

smirk,

This is a horrific story...a few more questions if you don't mind, and a comment (how can you not comment after reading this?)

Were you in the church when you married?
At the time of arrests, were you still a member of TSCC?
Was the ex-wife selected/encouraged as a mate for you (i.e. dis people in the church know she was crazy, and fail to warn you?)

> After that HORRIBLE experience, there was NO WAY
> that I was ever going to give the legal system the
> chance to have that kind of HOSTILE ABUSIVE
> leverage over me again.

Yes. Marriage needs to be as difficult to get into, as it is out of. In my state the spouse can refuse to divorce and keep accruing interest in assets and retirement while refusing to leave (few legal grounds to force a divorce, here).

> All that stuff about innocent until proven guilty

Thank goodness you had the money, support of a boss and attorney to fight, otherwise you would have been sunk.

> cutting off ALL future contact

How sad that you lost your kids as well as the crazy ex. Maybe they will look you up sometime though when they are older if they start thinking for themselves.

>And it was not just me...never saw those grand kids again

Sad. I was raised that way, cut off from every relative. It is a very lonely life especially when your only relative is your crazy mom.


Smirk, I hope things are better for you now and that you have found peace being away from the cult and the crazies!

Wishing you good thoughts!

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: February 01, 2019 11:13PM

mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is a horrific story...a few more questions if
> you don't mind


> Were you in the church when you married?

after going on a full (FOOL) time MORmON mission, I was really disgusted with what happened there. I was no longer active, after 4 years. given a few more years and the right kind of (NON MORmON) love interest, I would have been well on my way OUT of the MORmON cult. THE (MORmON) church very SUCK-CESS Fully reeled me back in as I made the HUGE mistake of getting hooked up with a MORmON girl for a marriage partner. MY MISTAKE !!!!


> At the time of arrests, were you still a member of
> TSCC?

I am still officially on the membership list of The MORmON cult, by choice. Its my way of being as two faced as I can to them just as they were to me.


> Was the ex-wife selected/encouraged as a mate for
> you (i.e. dis people in the church know she was
> crazy, and fail to warn you?)

Her parents knew that there were signs of mental issues but they emphasized the positive, ignored the flaws, and hoped for the best, which did not come about /through. Ironically they were attacked with false accusations before I was. They were on my side through out the divorce. My FIL passed away early on in the divorce. I was still associating with my MIL for 12 year after the divorce until she passed away.

Most of all, I saw the signs myself and their progression in the marriage as time went by, and I did NOT know what to do, because I had ZERO training and ZERO experience dealing with a mentally ill marriage partner. Thanks to the MORmON church, I had thousands of hours of superficial (WORTHLESS) pro marriage indoctrination, but ZERO advice on how to deal with real world challenges like a mentally ill partner.

It was super insulting when the judge told me to not go through with the divorce, because, A. it was just more of the same old MORmON pro marriage propaganda, B, it completely discounted the HELL that I had already been through.

I should have been able to figure out that I would be next after she attacked her parents. I knew that she had cheated on me, but I stayed with her anyway for two more years for the sake of being with the kids, but honestly it was a waste of time, because she just used that time to turn the kids against me even more. I should have left two years earlier when she made false accusations against her parents, but doing that would have been going against the grain of YEARS/TONS of MORmON indoctrination that says to stay in no matter what. the very same crap that I heard from the dumb ass judge as I was finally terminating the toxic marriage.

I can honestly say that being married ONLY made me more vulnerable as divorcing male parent. Being married NEVER presented me with any standing or consideration or advantage in the divorce process. It ONLY served as means to make me more vulnerable and to punish me. And the judge ONLY had contempt for me as a partner in a failed marriage while he only had sympathy for my ex as a partner in a failed marriage. I know that people love to say there is fault on both sides, and many times there probably is, but even my super MORmON parents and her super MORmON parents thought that it was past time for me to make a stand and to divorce her and all of them knew that I had quit THE church by then. I am saying it was ALL HER FAULT.




A person would think that showing up in divorce court with your MIL on your side, asking for custody to go to your MIL (HER MOTHER) over your ex to be would get some due consideration in court proceedings.
NOPE !! the court people merely viewed that as being caused by me being exceptionally hateful and abusive to my ex. In my experience the court system is staffed by blundering idiots. When they were done, I told my attorney that drunken monkeys with rubber stamps could have done as well or better in adjudicating the matter.



>
> > After that HORRIBLE experience, there was NO
> WAY
> > that I was ever going to give the legal system
> the

> > chance to have that kind of HOSTILE ABUSIVE
> > leverage over me again.
>
> Yes. Marriage needs to be as difficult to get
> into, as it is out of. In my state the spouse can
> refuse to divorce and keep accruing interest in
> assets and retirement while refusing to leave (few
> legal grounds to force a divorce, here).
>
> > All that stuff about innocent until proven
> guilty
>
> Thank goodness you had the money, support of a
> boss and attorney to fight, otherwise you would
> have been sunk.
>
> > cutting off ALL future contact
>
> How sad that you lost your kids as well as the
> crazy ex. Maybe they will look you up sometime
> though when they are older if they start thinking
> for themselves.
>
> >And it was not just me...never saw those grand
> kids again
>
> Sad. I was raised that way, cut off from every
> relative. It is a very lonely life especially when
> your only relative is your crazy mom.

WoW! really?

The oldest daughter graduated with a BS in psychology, now working on a masters so she can do social work. IF she has not figured out that her mom is crazy by now then she has NOT learned a thing.


> Smirk, I hope things are better for you now and
> that you have found peace being away from the cult
> and the crazies!

AFter I finally got away from my nut case spouse, I could not force myself to go back. It would be like asking me to crawl back inside of an oven.

>
> Wishing you good thoughts!

Thanks.

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: February 02, 2019 11:51PM

smirkorama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I ...hooked up with a MORmON girl

Ouch! So sorry! Love makes you do stupid things....

> I had... pro marriage indoctrination, but ZERO advice on how to deal with real world challenges like a mentally ill partner.

Yeah. It's probably like facts. They don't want to be bothered with them, better just to believe scripture. Marriage, supposed to be sacred and forever, don't say anything different!

> she just used that time to turn the kids against me

How awful. Staying for the kids but have it all be for nothing. :(

> And the judge ONLY had contempt for me as a partner in a failed marriage

Sheesh. So much for the impartial scales of justice!

Sorry about the MIL not getting custody. I still hope when they are older they will seek you out.

I didn't meet any of my father's side of my family until I was 35, due to my mom divorcing my dad when I was 4 and cutting off everyone (the relatives on her side had already been cut off).

It may take time for them to find you and see the cracks in the brainwashing their mom has done but I still think it could happen. I think that your daughter getting her degree in that field may mean she has a glimmer that something is wrong in her life or with her mom and she is wanting to understand the pathology.

I wouldn't give up on your kids yet. I agree do not crawl back in the oven (cult) though. I am glad things are better now that the ex is out of your life.

Hang in there! So glad you are a part of the Board and your stories help me and others, I am sure.

thanks, Smirk!

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: January 27, 2019 10:43PM

I've been asking this question for years. The divorces I've seen among relatives have been initiated by the women. Two because their husband didn't make enough money to give them the lifestyle they grew up in, and the other because the husband went inactive. No shame or discipline for the divorcing wives.

Meanwhile, husbands are shamed and disciplined if they even look at porn.

All I can figure is the church is controlled by women behind the scenes.

Women offer sex to men in exchange for their paycheck. The church restricts any other outlet for men's sexuality, giving the wife monopoly control and power. They need the church to enforce this control, so they demand allegiance to church from husbands.

So to get the sex, men have to commit to giving up their paycheck, and paying tithing.

If a man doesn't comply with attending church or earning significant money, the church will support the wife in divorcing him.

Our bishop recommended my wife divorce me when I quit church and was having career and earning problems.

So women benefit from church, and the church benefits from the women threatening divorce to keep husbands in line.

Which is why there are more women than men in church.

Problem is, more men are becoming aware of the scam and control, and are checking out - more going MGTOW.

Which should please the feminists, as there will be fewer men marrying and abusing their wives.

Bottom line - as with any cult, the organization is top priority over families.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 27, 2019 11:04PM

What is your purpose in posting these things?

Are you trying to persuade people to do something differently?

Do you seek validation of your experience or your interpretation of it?

What are you trying to achieve?

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Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 01:12AM

Because he has a fragile ego, blames women for it, and is trying to boost said ego instead of pulling his head out of his butt.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 02:26AM

That seems right, but it still begs the question why he keeps banging his head against the wall. He's not going to persuade anyone that half of humanity is evil and manipulative and he conversely learns nothing from what others post.

It's so . . . futile.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 05:41PM

Gender is like a "wall" for some people and they don't want it coming down.

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Posted by: anono this week ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 10:16PM

Well he persuaded me..., women are baaaad!
I totally agree.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 11:01PM

In any case, it's pretty clear that he hasn't fared very well in love. Which would be unfortunate for anyone.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 12:11AM

Free Man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No shame or
> discipline for the divorcing wives.
>
> Meanwhile, husbands are shamed and disciplined if
> they even look at porn.

I'm not cure why this section stood out to me any more than did the rest of the post, but anyway . . . That's kind of an apples-and-oranges comparison.

As for the MGTOW crowd, whatever.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 10:26AM by scmd1.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 01:20AM

I think there’s more to it than sexual economics. When a spouse “falls away”, that’s a deal breaker. No more CK, no forever family, all gone. Better to cut her losses and jettison your apostate ass rather than follow you into outer darkness.

Maybe you’re watching too much MGTOW. If women really do have too much power, they will shoot themselves in the foot until the problem is solved. The MGTOWs seem to be guys who’ve been burned or not socialized to deal with women.

But women haven’t changed. They’re like cuddly kittens, born with those little killer claws.

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Posted by: Chica ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 03:12PM

Free Man: Based on this post, I can see several reasons why a woman would want to divorce you -- reasons that have nothing to do with money or religion.

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 04:15PM

>> "Women offer sex to men in exchange for their paycheck."

Oh, so that's how it works. Thanks for clearing that up. I'll be sure and run right home and tell my wife.

Jeez.......

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 06:04PM

A general rule of thumb is that if you have to pay for it, you aren't doing it right.

Not that that applies to you, Roy!

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 29, 2019 12:11PM

Endorse the check before you get home.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: January 29, 2019 03:57PM

I did not now what (MGTOW) was. Men Going Their Own Way.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 27, 2019 11:06PM

to my generation...and even more with the generation coming up.

The biggest influence, I guess, is the prevalence and ubiquitousness of the mainstream media (Hollywood, corporate news and entertainment, Internet, etc.) which probably result in marriage undermining messages coming in at a rate that is 100 times more than whatever marriage reinforcing messages that the LSD Church can provide. (Add to that the fact that the LSD Church is itself a fraud and is not particularly capable of providing persuasive messaging, even when it's in a generally good cause.)

Looking at my parents' generation, I can't think of one couple who divorced among people that I knew somewhat well. No divorced uncles or aunts (even including a couple who were in mixed Mormon/non-Mormon marriages). No divorces among friends' parents.

In my generation, however, I can find many TBM cousins who were in temple marriages who got divorced. All of them were initiated by the wife. Three or four of them involved the wife cheating on the husband (because he was "working all the time"). The others involved the wife leaving the husband because "he wasn't working hard enough to earn a decent income.") Then there were a few that I never heard the reason for. None of them (among the relatives and friends that I know) involved the TBM husband cheating or beating.

In the younger generation (the one coming up after mine), an even more profound trend is that many (if not a majority) are not even getting married in the first place.

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Posted by: Heidi GWOTR ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 03:21PM

This is in CA.

I'm with you here WP. In my parents' generation, I only knew one couple who got divorced (the husband went to jail for being a thief). In my generation with Mormon siblings/cousins, I only know one (out of dozens) who got divorced (husband broke her arm and left her and their daughter in the middle of the Mojave desert). Since I left, I only know of my Mormon nieces and nephews to go by (there are only 3 married who consider themselves Mormon - 1 divorced within 6 months of his marriage. I don't know why.)

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 27, 2019 11:14PM

their used to be a (HUGE) stigma against divorce in Morland, now that's nearly gone; Guess Why !?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 27, 2019 11:38PM

The church's attitude on this, like so many other topics, has changed more than once. Divorce was not particularly stigmatized in the early years, when men swapped wives and divorced women fairly frequently. Brigham Young both initiated and was subjected to multiple divorces, as were other early church leaders. Tolerance for, or indifference towards, sucnh separatio was part of the polygamy package.

But when the United States attacked Mormonism for its polygamy/immorality, the church began to adjust. In 1890 it nominally abjured plural marriage and in 1907 it more seriously stopped at least new polygamous unions in the United States. As part of this adjustment, the church gradually started asserting that it was purer than Caesar's wife: this was a necessary response to political pressure from Washington and the Hearst newspapers. And as the church began the mainstreaming process, it went even further. Mormons became the guardians of marriage and family, and anything that detracted from those institutions was evil. That was what differentiated the LDS faith from normal Christianity.

In the 1960s and 1970s, however, American society was becoming more libertarian and divorce both more frequent and more acceptable. With some delay, Mormonism adapted to that trend. GNPE is right to describe it as a major change, but it was more a return to the middle 19th century pattern than anything else. These and the following decades were also when the United States started to take child abuse and domestic violence more seriously. It was increasingly untenable for the church to adhere to role models that entailed virtual captivity for people stuck in bad marriages.

Another part of it was of course the changing character of church leaders. Bishops and stake presidents in the 1950s and 1960s were traditionalists who would have discouraged divorce in almost all circumstances, but the men who assumed those positions in the 1980s and 1990s were products of the new and more liberal social trends. So Mormonism followed the broader American trajectory by two or three decades, as was the case with so many other points of doctrine.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 12:08AM

true/I agree, but the rhetoric against divorce (following what Christ said in both N.T. & BoM) remains anti-divorce, 'except in cases of adultery'.

Right or Wrong, this is also a case of the disconnect between

-the scriptures

-GA talks/sayings

-on the ground application/ lack of enforcement.

Living what Christ said, Anyone?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 12:13AM

Christ was thrown into the dustbin of history long ago.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 01:28AM

Somewhere between “lilies of the field” and “daisy cutters”.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 02:42AM

original plygmeisters of Mormonism. I already knew that Brigham Young had been subject to at least a couple of high-profile divorces, but my thinking was that those must have been very unusual cases as there likely would have been huge social and religious pressure for people not to get divorced.

I was therefore quite surprised to see quite a few notations for various other big shots (like Wilford Woodruff) indicating that several of their harem members had decided to quit by divorce.

I have to find it again, but I remember reading one account of where Wilford was really quite angry about one young lady who had had the impudence to divorce him and he wanted to take some strong punitive action against her, but was dissuaded from doing so due to his public profile and the risk that he would have looked petty and vindictive (which he would have).

He was already quite old at that stage and I was thinking: "Geez, Wilford! Enough with the harem building!"

Relatedly, I found that series of "Teachings of the Prophets" lesson manuals that the church put out a few years back to be quite offensive. Knowing what I knew about the pressures that were put on to prospective brides to join the harems and all the bogus promises made about future glory and exaltation, it was disgusting to see the church paint a picture of each of those guys (Young, Woodruff, Taylor...) as though they had been monogamous, only referring to their first wives (or one remarriage if the first wife had died) and completely omitting any references to the plural wives and their offspring. It was so dishonest that I was surprised that they even dared to do it. I guess they figured the membership was so dumbed down that they could get away with it.

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Posted by: ConcernedCitizen 2.0 ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 12:05AM

...I talked w/a High Council member-relative who flat-out said the Church is currently undergoing a "rebranding period" for the sake of both retention, and to deal with the current, somewhat resigned notion, that younger mainstream America is losing interest in the traditional religious institutions. Forcing the "no-go" on divorce is not going to help in the "normalization"? of the LDS brand. That is still played best by the hardcore, militant JW's who weaponize divorce to force member compliance, even though BP/SP's used to do it too.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 12:12AM

Interesting point.

I can't imagine what the church will achieve by rebranding itself as long as the product it is pedaling remains basically the sam. I guess the question is whether it is just "traditional religious institutions" that are falling out of favor or "religious institutions" in general. I suspect it is the latter and that the church is deceiving itself if it believes the "brand" is the problem.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 02:58AM

Instead of being the leader (which you would expect if it were the true, restored Church, led by real-life prophets, as claimed), it's always been playing follow the leader with powerful governments and social trends in the leader role, acting at will in leading the church away from the church's previous positions and teachings.

It may make the church more "user-friendly," and keep it out of big trouble, but when looked at with any kind of reason and logic, it also serves as perfect confirmation that the church has never been what it claimed to be with regard to divine authority and inspiration.

Of course that should have been plain to see by anyone even back in the 1890s when the U.S. government forced "God's church" (and therefore God himself) to bend the knee and obey the government on the polygamy issue.

That added a footnote or qualification to every supposed "commandment of God" that the "prophets" ever "revealed."

"Thou shalt [ ], unless the U.S. government says you can't."

God instantly became a wimpy, lesser god who didn't dare defy the edicts of powerful politicians.

"Hey, my flock, remember when I commanded you to practice polygamy? Well, that was before the U.S. government decided it was wrong. Hey, it's the U.S. government. I'm only god. You're on your own now. Good luck. If you find yourself in prison soon and need some comfort, feel free to pray to me. I'll be hiding out in heaven, but I'll have my answering machine turned on. Sorry about, you know, making a lot of promises I couldn't keep. My bad."

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 03:16AM

Let me fix that for you:

"Thou shalt [ ], unless the U.S. government or the NCAA says you can't."

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Posted by: Bamboozled ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 08:45AM

The NCAA think they ARE god.

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Posted by: ConcernedCitizen 2.0 ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 12:32AM

...well, they have to do something to at least attempt to stabilize the tithing receipts coming in at the front end. Reduced member tithes affect the Church's ability to accurately predict it's once-reliable investment and financial forecast models.

...think of the rebranding as Coca-Cola, RC Cola, 7-UP, Dr. Pepper, and other soft-drink companies all scrambling for a dwindling market share, even as the energy drinks are becoming more popular. The only option is to add artificial and cheaper sweeteners, suspect additives, and false ingredient labeling to the product, all the while knowing the product is still a pancreatic killer.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 02:33AM

WHAT THEE HELL makes you think / feel that LD$ inc does not strongly posture against divorce.

I "abused" my wife at the time, by my refusal to go along with her BS story that her father had raped her (numerous times) while she was a teen, had gotten her pregnant (numerous times), had made her deliver the babies, had made her kill the babies, had made her eat the babies.

All of that BS was template right off of Glenn Pace's report that claimed rampant Satanic RItual abuse was going on in utah. My wife at the time simply parroted Paces BS claims as written up in the BS Pace Report. Where did Pace go when he wanted to try to validate the outrageous claims he had made in his report? -right to the good old BS Book of MORmON!!! that puts LD$ Inc finger prints ALL OVER the BS ordeal that I was forced to deal with , as my wife at the time parroted BS that eminated from directly from MORmONISM in the short term and clear back to good old PERVERT Profit Joseph Smith.

I "abused" my wife at the time by objecting to her turning our 14 year old daughter into the neighborhood tramp.

When my wife at the time accused me of abuse, I filed for divorce because I take seriously abuse and accusations of abuse. My In laws were completely on MY side as I divorced their mentally ill daughter.

My mentally ill wife at the time went to court and successfully got a protective order against me based on NOTHING because A, there never had been any real abuse, B. the court hands out P.O.s like parade candy .....at a parade. Then my wife at the time used the P.O. as an offensive weapon. She had my teen age daughter come into my neighborhood. I called the Law and asked them to have my daughter removed from the area, because A. the 14 year old daughter was at the residence directly across the street from my legally allowed and legally designated residence where an 18 year male lived that she was sexually involved with WHICH IS TECHNICALLY AGAINST THE LAW and for which there was an active investigation on that matter, B. she had come into close proximity to me which contravened the basic intent of the protective order which was to keep us separated and as far as I was concerned I intended to strictly abide by the protective order. The attending Law enforcement officer agreed with my assessment and instructed my daughter to leave the area. Before that action could be carried, my wife's dirty cop deputy Marshall arrived at the scene and instructed the first officer to stand down. Two days later I was arrested in my neighborhood by dirty cop Deputy Marshall for violating the P.O. because I had been too close to the proximity of my former daughter AS SHE HAD COME INTO THE AREA OF MY RESIDENCE.
By then I had started appeal proceedings that would later show that the Protective Order that facilitated my arrest was UNJUSTIFIED. However before that could happen, I would be convicted of violating the groundless Protective order which gave me a "Domestic Violence" conviction that was then used a the justification/ grounds for continuing with the previously groundless Protective Order.

What was I really guilty of? -A.Being in my own neighborhood, and B.trying to prevent my 14 year old daughter from being further sexually exploited AKA trying to be a concerned male parent. The "contact" between me and the "victim".....I saw her through a window!!!! I had never attempted to speak to her! I had never tried to approach her. I saw her through a window.

When my deal finally went to trial, the super @$$ hole good old MORmON judge decided that my mere presence in my own neighborhood was so sinister that I must be convicted of violating the protective order, in order to whip me into submission and compliance.

I had NEVER attacked the "victim". I had NEVER spoken to the "victim". I had NEVER threatened the "victim". I had NEVER made an attempt to approach the "victim". The "contact" that I had with the "victim" was seeing the "victim" through a window as she made her way into the area of my legally designated residence. That was the extent of my contact with the "victim" which made me "guilty" of "violating" the protective order.

When my deal finally went to sentencing, during sentencing from the bench, the good old MORmON judge chided me for filing for divorce. and advised me not to go through with the divorce. I have the video!! I was raised in THE MORmON church, so I speak fluent MORmONESE even IF I no longer believe in their MORmON BS, so I know who was really talking when the judge told me not to follow through with the divorce. What is my incentive to keep playing that BS game where I am the designate villain no matter what I do???

For me, This deal is just like all of my other major interactions that I have had with MORmONISM.


Growing up as a MORmON, I was continually $hit on by THE (MORmON) church, and my reward for that abuse? -they (still) expected me to go on a mission for them.

I went on a sales expedition/ full time mission for THE (MORmON) church. THE reward for my efforts in their behalf? I was $hit on some more! and THE (MORmON) church treated the convert that I got for them like a demolition derby car that they did not like/ hated.


I had tried to be a husband and father, but with THE MORmON church in charge and dictating terms, I was NOT even entitled to the slightest objection when my NUT CASE wife decided to embrace and parrot outrageous garbage that had originated right out of LD$ inc central administration and from MORmON "scripture" for the purpose of fraudulently elevating herself, so much the same as the way that LD$ Inc executive scum continually operates to justify and elevate their MORmON causes and their MORmON selves.

Funny thing, I also was NOT entitled to the slightest objection about the sexual exploitation of a 14 year old girl who was my daughter.


So true to MORmON form, the MORmON in charge has to make sure he tells me all about how stupid and defective that I really am (as far as they are concerned) and how difficult it is for them to attempt to work with me. Then the MORmONS expect me to stay engaged and stay enthusiastic in promoting their MORmON
purposes and their MORmON programs and their MORmON institutions ( including that extra special MORmON temple marriage) AND I am supposed to be grateful for any burden or hardship that they have imposed on me because it was really for my own good. and when I am not so grateful, they get hostile -Something that I am not allowed to do to the slightest degree.


The MORmON in charge made sure that I was $hit on as a father and a husband, and then, true to MORmON form, what did he expect me to do ? Keep on being a male parent and a husband !!!!

MORmON membership, MORmON meetings/ programs, MORmON missions, MORmON Colleges, MORmON marriage, MORmON parenthood, MORmON Living, they are all overwhelming LOSERS for me, things that I want to avoid like the plague.


When I see those state sponsored signs that attempt to promote father hood in Utah, I want to laugh and puke at the same time. It is a joke at best. It is just like MORmON family Home evening, a program that had be implemented in order to try to protect MORmONS from their ever highly demanding and ever encroaching MORmON religion so that MORmON members might have a little time to actually devote to family interaction amid all of the demands that THE MORmON church continually made.

Fact is, Male parenthood has ALREADY been made illegal in Utah. The only thing that has to happen is for the female parent to make accusations and the father is automatically GUILTY. Then THE state and THE church will turn around and bitch and whine and cry that more men are not more involved in their children's lives. That is a crock, especially in instances like mine where THE (MORmON) church was so instrumental in destroying my marriage and then destroying any parental authority that I might have had. All the divine power supposedly resides in and with THE church, but somehow its the male parent that is expected to perform the miracles, that of never losing any momentum as a male parent after being destroyed as a person/ individual and dealing with having a criminal record ......FOR HIS OWN GOOD. Then Big shot church leaders and state administrators wonder why so many male parents end up saying to Hell with the entire deal of parenthood and just make a permanent exit from being a male parent. I sure as Hell did,because there is a certain point where it simply is NOT worth the trouble. I had arrived at that point long before my divorce was finalized. Somehow, I already knew that I was ONLY going to end up being $hit on again.


And it works that way just to make sure that THE (MORmON) church can maintain its pristine (supposedly) pro marriage / pro family image, WHICH IS PURE BS !!!

When the MORmON judge told me not to proceed with the divorce, he did not care if I went to jail a hundred more times, or IF I was beaten up by the police every other week, or gunned down by the police as they were provoked or goaded into it by my nutcase wife. Regardless oh how horrible my demise might be, as long as I was still married to my insane MORmON temple bride when I deceased, my demise would not show up as a statistical ding against THE (MORmON) church and its supposedly superior approach to life, like a divorce would as factored against MORmON temple marriage.

That damn MORmON judge only cared that I had a stupid MORmON stupid secret handshake temple marriage, and my divorce would serve as a tiny statistical ding that made MORmON temple marriage not any better than regular marriages. He could not tolerate that.

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 11:37PM

smirkorama,

I am sorry all that happened to you. I hope your life is happier now.

What an awful experience.

Take care.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 05:40AM

As an outsider, the idea that Mormons can get married "for all eternity" and then divorced in short order is a head-scratcher.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 06:57AM

As often as not, they only get divorced for this life. They are still married in Mormon Heaven. Temple divorces, if they happen at all, almost always happen some period of time after the civil divorce. Wrap your head around that!

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: January 29, 2019 12:51PM

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> As often as not, they only get divorced for this life. They are still married in Mormon Heaven.

I was told about a guy who had married in Temple several times and each time got it anulled.

Wonder if that is common---older single male Morons, when faced with the bedroom, just turn and run....

Wonder if the wives are still sealed despite the annulment?

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Posted by: GNPE1 ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 09:27AM

Remember, 'the lord', aka ChurchCo, doesn't make mistakes;
at least they don't admit or correct them!

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 10:45AM

Why should the Mormon cult care about divorce? They'll get the husband's money, anyway, when the Mormon ex-wife pays tithing on the alimony and child support she gets from him.

Plus, often the Mormon divorced wife gets a job, too, which means even more money for the cult. Usually, the children of divorce have to get jobs, too. More money, more money.

The Mormon cult's focus is on the CHILDREN, remember. Newborn babies are their Number One source of fresh meat, I mean, new members. The cult will do anything--whatever it takes--to keep those children imprisoned for life!

I was a divorced single mom, and you can believe what I say. The Mormons stopped at nothing to try to keep control of my children. They went too far, when the priesthood thugs came into my house, when I was already at church, pulled my sleeping boys out of bed, kicked and shoved them into their clothes, and butt-kicked them on the stairs and into the car, and to church. At church, they held the boys prisoner, and they were not allowed to leave. They went too far! This happened many times. My kids were threatened not to tell me, but I knew they hated church and those leaders. I started to investigate the Mormon lies. What they did to my little girl was worse, allowing the bishop's son to get away with molesting her at a church camp-out, and the bishop threatened my daughter and all the witnesses to keep quiet--or else! I didn't find out until years later.

Because I had no husband to protect me, the Mormon thugs thought they could take my children, and usurp my authority as parent. I was nothing but a woman, and didn't have the power of the priesthood.

I kicked the Mormon bullies out of my house, more than once, by threatening to call the police. Sometimes, a woman needs the help of the police, when aggressive men are trespassing multiple times, are abusing her children, and will not leave her house. My sons got older, bigger, and braver, and I was proud of them, when they, themselves kicked out the Mormon tormenters, when they were verbally abusing me!

To the Mormon cult, a divorced single woman is an easy mark, but, more importantly, she is in charge of the children, and their fate as future tithe-payers rests pretty much in her hands, according to the Mormons.

The good news is, statistics show that children of divorced parents are more likely to leave the cult. Also, If one of the child's parents--it doesn't matter if it's the mother or the father, or if they are divorced or not--leaves the cult, the children are very likely to leave.

I always thought divorce was a male thing. Hence, "no-fault divorce." My ex hid his assets. He got away with completely deserting his little children, without giving any explanation, whatsoever. Whatever tiny amount of child support he had to pay, he refused to pay, and it wasn't worth all the effort and attorney's fees to force him to pay. I put that time and effort energy into making money of my own, to support us, and moving on, and recovering from what he had done to us.

In my experience, the female is always blamed for the divorce. I was the "faithful Mormon spouse" in my divorce, as my ex had left the cult a few years before. Yet, I was still blamed. When it was discovered that he had cheated on me for years, I was still blamed. My only regret was that I kept paying tithing to that horrible cult, even when the kids and I were struggling!

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Posted by: Mother Who Knows ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 11:05AM

Well, the Mormons could marginalize divorce people. They would like to shun them, but they want to keep divorcees in the cult, paying tithing, working at callings, cleaning toilets, etc. Marginalizing is being neutral, and I wouldn't say even being nice.

Mormon couples could avoid socializing with single divorcees.

Mormon spouses could behave as though the divorcee was pursuing their precious spouse, and always keep a watch, and step in if there seems to be any interaction between spouse and divorcee.

The Mormon church could make a rule that only families can sit together, in family groups; thus singling out those who are single. They could encourage divorced people to sit in the back at sacrament meeting.

Mormon widows and widowers could keep a distinct separation from divorcees. Even though they're all single, the widowed could avoid sitting with the divorcees in church, for example.

Mormons could not allow a divorced man to be a bishop or stake president.

Mormons could make it clear to divorced people that they should remarry ASAP, and force a divorcee to date any crazy single person they can find, as long as it's a Mormon.

Mormons could not allow a female to get married in the temple a second time.

Mormons could act all creepy around divorced females, and not allow any males to be alone with a divorced female. Missionary, Home teacher, minister, any male sent to harass a woman and her family, must have a companion with him.

As Deanie, the Dreaded Single Adult says, single people should let the married people be served first, and take the best seats at meals. Singles can sit on the stage steps.

Oh--the Mormons are already doing all of the above. They have been behaving like this for years.

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 11:33PM

Mother Who Knows Wrote:
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> Mormons could act all creepy around divorced females, and not allow any males to be alone with a divorced female.

Wow you're right! That and more happened to me but it was so subtle it took me a while to see it!!! I kept wondering if the church supported marriage why no one ever introduced me to the single men of the ward.

I was SO naive!!!

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 01:10PM

"The Solution: Fierce Loyalty to the Covenant of Marriage and to God"

https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/divine-design-best-practices-family-success-and-happiness/4-commitment-covenant-lds

If Oaks is sincere here he could careless about marriages until they are "covenant" ones.

"Elder Dallin H. Oaks (2012) recently quoted a Harvard law professor in his description of the current law and attitude toward marriage and divorce: “The [current] American story about marriage, as told in the law and in much popular literature, goes something like this: marriage is a relationship that exists primarily for the fulfillment of the individual spouses. If it ceases to perform this function, no one is to blame and either spouse may terminate it at will” (p. 44). [5] This self-focused perspective is contributing to our culture’s anti-commitment attitudes. It underlies what is driving an unprecedented increase in marital postponement and cohabitation in the United States, and is eroding the barrier that once protected society against a casual acceptance of divorce."

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 03:30PM

Unless the people who want to get married are gay.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 05:44PM

I'm thinking that they wouldn't prevent another Josh Weed from springing up in their garden of Eden.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 01:51PM

I'm almost 100% certain that the GAs & most underlings are knowing that they're supporting a Hoax, therefore they don't care about 'Eternal Marriages/Families' any more than Buddhists, atheists, Catholics, or anyone else.

IOW, the 'temple thing' is Exclusively for revenue & show.

BUT: If they did care about families & possibly want to minimize divorces, there surely are some procedural / organizational changes they could implement, but they don't.

I think ^ was my main point.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 02:40PM

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BUT: If they did care about families & possibly
> want to minimize divorces, there surely are some
> procedural / organizational changes they could
> implement, but they don't.

I think that GAs cultivate an urban myth that Mormons don't divorce while knowing that it doesn't mean beans compared to the reality of marriage to the church. If they can't have that, then it doesn't really matter if a Mormon is married or not to them.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 02:52PM

Yes, we've had steady doses of rhetoric on this & other matters, it's time someone with a bit of gravitas asks them: "Where's the Beef?" (old Wendy's restaurant tag-line)

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 05:47PM

"Where's the Beef?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riH5EsGcmTw

It has been pointed out a lot that Mormons aren't the ones to have "the beef."

McMormons.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: January 28, 2019 06:00PM

Divorce is more popular than it should be among Mormons because church leaders use it liberally for a man or woman to get shot of their inactive or dissident spouse. That makes it quite convenient, a tool to grab when needed.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: January 29, 2019 03:33AM

My nephew just went through a divorce 2 years ago. There are 4 kids involved. The ex has turned his oldest daughter against him and he hasn't seen her in a year. He has had to fight to see his kids and is now trying to get at least 40/60 percent custody, so he moved back to Brigham City to prove residence instead of living by his family in Idaho.

I guess 'stupid' me as I've never been a regular old female. I've told my story often enough. My ex has a great pension and a 401K and he KNOWS I won't go after it. It isn't my way. I've always earned money except for the 8 months after my twins were born, but I had some money put away that I could use after they were born. It horrifies me to see what women do to men in divorce situations.

I also was taught to ENDURE TO THE END. These women give up on GOOD MEN so easily. We don't hear their stories of how life goes after they get a divorce. Being divorced in mormonism is its own personal hell and these women deserve it. I wish I had had a husband who just lost his testimony. How simple that would be!!! I lived with a dad who wasn't that active, so it would be no big deal. AND I would have ENDURED TO THE END. I am as it is anyway. ha ha ha ha He lives downstairs.

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Posted by: matt ( )
Date: February 02, 2019 05:28AM

Because in some instances TSCC is somewhat pragmatic in its outlook.

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Posted by: dogblogger ( )
Date: February 03, 2019 11:34AM

They want to be against divorce but it would hurt their active membership too much. Driving the divoring ones inactive and costing them the children activity. Active members are the only ones who pay them tax free money. So it's all about keeping the revenue stream.

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Posted by: Hwint ( )
Date: February 04, 2019 07:23PM

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I believe most MORMON divorces are initiated by
> women, members they need for their base of
> support.


winner winner chicken dinner.

women file for most divorces generally, no reason to assume Mormons are different.

most Christian denominations are majority female.

now that divorce has lost most of its social stigma, and divorced women are a significant percentage of church attendees, churches are reluctant to criticize divorce or divorcees for fear of losing their most devoted and most tithe-paying members.

Dalrock dot wordpress dot com has written about these trends in American christianity for years.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: February 05, 2019 12:41AM

How can a single get divorced?
Unless you mean divorcing tscc.
That's what I'm talking about!
I left lds originally as a teen.
IOW, PRE-marriage. Does that count?

I never dated a Mormon
So NO WAY to marry one.
Thank God

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: February 05, 2019 01:53PM

Thanks! for all your posts / comments!!

I 'know' that in the context of 'Families are Forever' & scripture/GA stmnts about divorce is the biggest disconnect in MormonDumb.

It's right In The Face of what Christ taught, and it's compounded by a lack of focus on Forgiveness & Repentance.

I think they lose many more active members on this one than on any other.

Yet another case of: Say one thing, do Another;

a Mormon can file a divorce on the slightest of grounds, vicious, hateful, full of lies, chances are they'll be OK;

but if U drink coffee & admit it, maybe a beer or two on a hot day, You're Done!

Thanks again, board.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2019 02:47PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: February 05, 2019 03:31PM

Keeping up appearances is something Mormons excel at. No surprise divorce is only bad in this context for the morg.

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