you would:

1) be a God/Goddess

2) have spirit children who would view you their Father/Mother in Heaven and

3) be involved in your own creating worlds on which these beings would be tested and work for exaltation.


Anyone know the most official sources for these teachings? I've been discussing this online and person I'm speaking to rejects the King Follet discourse as doctrine. Are there recent words by LDS leaders that support these ideas?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2011 10:10PM by badseed.

It is doctrine,

(see http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/doctrine )

It came out of Joe Smith's mouth,

What makes this person think it's not doctrine?

- - -

This is a common diversion used by LDS Inc and it's apologists - just declare that anything that has been changed (or is wierd beyond belief) is not "doctrine"

that any doctrine or long-standing teaching that they want to make go away, becomes invisible just like the blades of a fast moving fan.

Ask them how they know what is and isn't doctrine. Then they might tell you some formula about how the General Authorities process something to the point that it becomes official doctrine. Then ask them how they know whether that formula for establishing doctrine is really doctrinal? Then watch the spin cycle go into overdrive. It's magic.

Doesn't matter though LDS leaders have taught this for years...and only recently have kind of ditched it beginning with Hinckley.

Clearly it was doctrine when the church didn't catch crap about it. Just like the JoD it's chucked one it become problematic.

This is one of the main reasons that I hate the LDS church, not the people. Because it makes bald faced liars out of good people.

If a so called prophet of God teaches the entire church via General Conference then its doctrine. If not at General conference by the current prophet then when for hells sakes!

When Hinckely was alive I guaran-damn-tee you that his opinions were doctrine! I guess because Hinckley is dead now that his doctrine are just opinions now. If that's the case then why aren't multiple earrings reinstated?

Larry king Q: There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormons believe that God was once a man?

President Hinckley A: I wouldn't say that. There was a little couplet coined, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.'' Now that's more of a couplet than anything else.

Every member of the Church is taught this doctrine. It is not ‘a couplet’, nor deep doctrine that no one knows much about. In the following quote President Hinckley himself taught this doctrine personally to the entire Church in general conference in 1994.

“On the other hand, the whole design of the gospel is to lead us onward and upward to greater achievement, even, eventually, to godhood. This great possibility was enunciated by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the King Follet sermon (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-62) and emphasized by President Lorenzo Snow. It is this grand and incomparable concept: As God now is, man may become! (See The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, comp. Clyde J. Williams, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1984, p. 1) Our enemies have criticized us for believing in this. Our reply is that this lofty concept in no way diminishes God the Eternal Father. He is the Almighty. He is the Creator and Governor of the universe. He is the greatest of all and will always be so. But just as any earthly father wishes for his sons and daughters every success in life, so I believe our Father in Heaven wishes for his children that they might approach him in stature and stand beside him resplendent in godly strength and wisdom. (Conference Report, Oct. 1994)”

This was edited ahead of time approved and taught to the whole damn church. If this isn't doctrine then there is no doctrine, period!

"Our enemies have criticized us for believing in this." When outside the church he did not stand up for this doctrine yet inside the church he was very brave in professing his hard stance on this subject. When faced by the "critics" the one man that was supposed to boldy stand up for the inside beliefs he caved in. He was a coward. Inside brave, outside not so sure an cowardly.

And that bullshit excuse "milk before meat" is nothing more than a cowardly rationalization for outright lying.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2011 10:43PM by AmIDarkNow?.

if i remember correctly he was at a regional conference in hamilton ON shortly after that show and he talked about it, kind of sheepishly. He seemed to excuse himself by talking about not casting pearls before unbelievers.

( i actually saw him come out of the garage after that conference and we waved to him and he waved back. ) i was snickering about that afterwards because here is the profit waving at me- with barely a testimony left and there would be a lot of tbms who would have given a lot to have been so blessed. i didn;t brag about it at chuch the next sunday.

I'm reminded of the temple sealing. Doesn't it say something about gods and goddesses, kings and queens, priests and priestesses? I don't remember the wording.

As a matter of fact, yes it does. And just exactly how are the temple ordinances not doctrine? This was a massive lie on Hinkley's part and every single mormon that down plays this doctrine because every single temple goes hears it every time they go is lying about it. Like I said, This church make liars out of good people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2011 11:40PM by AmIDarkNow?.

Yes I was taught those things and I taught them to other people. It is one of the most distinctive doctrines of LDS brand mormonism.

What's funny is that most any member would tell you that the King Follett Discourse was Joes greatest revelation, despite that it contradicts the Book of Mormon, Book of Moses, D&C (before 121 onward) the Bible and the JST.

Your TBM friend is right to reject the King F Discourse, but the church holds it tight. That is, unless they've decided to denounce it in order to trick people into thinking they are like regular churches.

But given that I had no desire for any of them,"exaltation" did not strike me as particularly appealing!

Yup, all through Sunday school and priesthood, 1970s and 1980s.

I'm thinking if you had some Sunday School manuals from that time you'd find this outlined in a lesson.

RG

It was also in the Priesthood manuals.

If I remember correctly, this was a current topic in that same year's priesthood manual when Hinkley said "I don't know that we teach that"

Liar.

In chapter 47 (p 302), The Blessings of Exaltation include:

-Becoming gods
-have spirit children that have the same relationship to us as we had to HF
-Have "all power, glory, dominion and knowledge" like HF and JC have

(paraphrased because I didn't feel like typing the whole thing in)

There is other stuff in there, but we all know what they refuse to admit anyway. It was doctrine. That manual was for new converts.

(if someone wants me to type it in, I will)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2011 12:49AM by WickedTwin.

I was taught that. It sounded bleak to me even then but I was always told when I asked about it. You'll understand it some day. Well, some day is now and I don't understand it any better now. In fact now, I think it's outright creepy.

For sure the last thing I want to do for eternity is pop out spirit babies. How stupid is that!

Prophet Lorenzo R. Snow, Unchangeable Love of God, Sunday, September 18, 1898; Teachings of Lorenzo Snow p. 5
"That exalted position was made manifest to me at a very early day. I had a direct revelation of this. It was most perfect and complete. If there ever was a thing revealed to man perfectly, clearly, so that there could be no doubt or dubiety, this was revealed to me, and it came in these words: "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be." This may appear to some minds as something very strange and remarkable, but it is in perfect harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ and with His promises."

Marion G. Romney, General Conference, October 1964
"We all know that like begets like and that for the offspring to grow to the stature of his parent is a process infinitely repeated in nature. We can therefore understand that for a son of God to grow to the likeness of his Father in heaven is in harmony with natural law. We see this law demonstrated every few years in our own experience. Sons born to mortal fathers grow up to be like their fathers in the flesh. This is the way it will be with spirit sons of God. They will grow up to be like their Father in heaven. Joseph taught this obvious truth. As a matter of fact, he taught that through this process God himself attained perfection. From President Snow's understanding of the teachings of the Prophet on this doctrinal point, he coined the familiar couplet: "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." This teaching is peculiar to the restored gospel of Jesus Christ."

Eldred G. Smith (Patriarch to the Church), General Conference, October 1948
"We often say, and you have heard the expression as it has already been referred to in this conference, that "as man now is, God once was, and as God now is, man may become." The only way man may become as God now is, is through fulfilling the laws of celestial marriage and the laws of the gospel, as I have just read to you the word of the Lord from the D&C. Can we afford to overlook such opportunities for exaltation? Temple marriage is not just another form of church wedding; it is a divine covenant with the Lord that if we are faithful to the end, we may become as God now is."

Orson F. Whitney, Divine Evidences of Truthfulness, Y.M.M.I.A. Annual Conference, June 9th, 1895.
"Mormonism be it true or false, holds out to men the greatest inducements that the human mind can grasp. And so it does... It teaches men that they can become divine, that man is God in embryo, that God was once man in mortality, and that the only difference between Gods, angels and men is a difference in education and development. Is such a religion to be sneered at? It teaches that the worlds on high, the stars that glitter in the blue vault of heaven, are kingdoms of God, that they were once earths like this, that they have been redeemed and glorified by the same laws, the same principles that are applied to this planet, and by which it will ascend to a perfected and glorified state. It teaches that these worlds are peopled with human beings, God's sons and daughters, and that every husband and father, may become an Adam, and every wife and mother an Eve, to some future planet."

Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. ix
Through him God has abundantly confirmed that man is the supreme creation, made in the image and similitude of God and his Son, Jesus Christ; that man is the offspring of God; that for man, and man alone, was the earth created, organized, planted and made ready for human habitation; and that, having within him the seeds of godhood and thus being a god in embryo, man has unlimited potential for progress and attainment.

Joseph E. Robinson, General Conference, April 1912
"So the Prophet Joseph Smith, in this age, has added to this truth by the assertion that "As man is God once was, and that as He is man may became," because He is our Father, and like begets like, and inherent within us are the attributes of divinity that shall lead us into perfection, which Christ intended His Saints to attain unto."

George F. Richards, General Conference, April 1913
"We are His children in Very deed, having been born of Him in the spirit, and we have inherited the very attributes which he possesses. They are in us, and they make us God's embryo, We believe that as we are now God once was, and by the practice of virtue and righteousness, by obedience unto law and authority, He has become what He is, and as He is, man may become, on the same principle."

First Presidency (Heber J. Grant, Anthony W. Ivins, Charles W. Nibley), “ `Mormon' View of Evolution,” Improvement Era, v. 11, pp. 1090-1091, September 1925; also see Encyclopedia of Mormonism, Appendix 5
“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, basing its belief on divine revelation, ancient and modern, proclaims man to be the direct and lineal offspring of Diety. By his Almighty power God organized the earth, and all that it contains, from spirit and element, which exist co-eternally with himself. Man is the child of God, formed in the divine image and endowed with divine attributes, and even as the infant son of an earthly father and mother is capable in due time of becoming man, so that undeveloped offspring of celestial parentage is capable, by experience through ages and aeons, of evolving into a God.”

What's the point of celestial marriage otherwise? If we're not gonna get it on and make spirit babies then there's no point in maintaining any marriage vows.

Curious connection here: Romney's favorite novel is "Battleship Earth."

April 30, 2007, 10:24 pm Romney Favors Hubbard Novel
By JIM RUTENBERG
“What’s your favorite novel?” is a perennial campaign question, the answer to which presumably gives insight into leadership.

A “Moby-Dick” lover may understand the perils of obsessively chasing of a goal. A fan of “To Kill a Mockingbird” may well focus on racial justice.

When asked his favorite novel in an interview shown yesterday on the Fox News Channel, Mitt Romney pointed to “Battlefield Earth,” a novel by L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. That book was turned into a film by John Travolta, a Scientologist.

A spokesman said later it was one of Mr. Romney’s favorite novels.
“I’m not in favor of his religion by any means,” Mr. Romney, a Mormon, said. “But he wrote a book called ‘Battlefield Earth’ that was a very fun science-fiction book.” Asked about his favorite book, Mr. Romney cited the Bible.

or should I say "There are those who believe that life here began out there..." I leaned a lot about Mormonism from watching re-runs of the old Battlestar Galactica growing up. All of this "doctrine" was on the show in one form or another.

Oops! Meant to reply to "anybody"

17: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Not only taught that, but that it was something "hidden" in the bible that was "lost" in the a-pasta-c

Rubbish I believed.

I feel nuts!

Hi was just wondering if u could tell me who taught this to you...and why they said it was hidden..? Because it seems to me as an internal alchmist that it is clearly saying we can be as christ is/was...i find this intriguing as if you were to say that not long ago you'd get burned...now you just get arrested and called crazy :-D...as crazy as it sounds it is a very very old spiritual understanding (union with God i mean-being one with God) there are elements of it in hindu faiths which was the birth place of alchemical practices (yoga)...

Or turning lead into gold.

But let me give you a little context.

Mormonism teaches that it is the "original" Christianity restored.

And that this "original" Christianity is simply the next step for the "perfect" Judeism.

Furthermore, Mormonism teaches that it is really an extension of the FIRST religion that was taught to Adam and Eve, and then corrupted as time went on.

So, this "truth" of becoming like god was "known" but then "lost" as religion became corrupted.

The scripture I quoted is from the bible, but contemporary Christianity does NOT in ANY way interperet that scripture to mean that men can become gods.

However, Mormonism does, and it's because of their other beliefs that I outlined in context.

Certain Eastern philosophies/religions have elements that you've explained about being "one with the divine." But it's not quite the same as the Mormon concept of becoming an individual deity yourself.

I hope that helps.

Definitely taught this at church and in seminary growing up.

I thought privately that it sounded worse than being promoted to supervisor or even general manager. Just that much more stress. WHO NEEDS THAT???

But of course, I didn't say such a thing.

The core message of Mormonism is that you can and should aim to do all three things you list.

Become a God/Goddess, have spirit children and create your own worlds.

If Mormons are dodging this they are shredding their central doctrine and making a mockery of their temples.

You are talking to a fool who is probably embarrassed because his beliefs (fake pearls) have been paraded before the world in the BOM musical.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2011 01:05AM by Simon in Oz.

hey just wondering if u could tell me the "how" of this..? is there a technique..? special prayer...or something..?

thanks mate ;-)

Yes. This is what I was taught. I didn't know they stopped preaching this. I guess I was in primary too long. Haven't had to go to Sunday School for years.

badseed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you would:
>
> 1) be a God/Goddess
>
> 2) have spirit children who would view you their
> Father/Mother in Heaven and
>
> 3) be involved in your own creating worlds on
> which these beings would be tested and work for
> exaltation.
>
>
> Anyone know the most official sources for these
> teachings? I've been discussing this online and
> person I'm speaking to rejects the King Follet
> discourse as doctrine. Are there recent words by
> LDS leaders that support these ideas?

Badseed YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME! Anyone who has been to one 3 hour block Mormon meeting and can come out of it not knowing those 3 beliefs wasn't paying attention at all! The person you are talking with is a liar, and will never concede the point.

Yes, that's what I learned too, except for #2, which was only obliquely implied. I bet it's still in the gospel principles manual.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2011 11:01AM by silverlightx.