After leaving the church in 2003, I became a "Christian" and then an agnostic. Now I really have a very hard time believing there is any kind of god or afterlife. I tend to think there is nothing after death and there is no higher power.I am 40. And I am terrified to die. I am scared of not existing anymore. I KNOW it makes no sense, because if I don't exist I won't care or be afraid, but I am truly just appalled and horrified at the thought of being dead, not able to think or feel, just GONE.

I have been able to talk to my teenaged kids about it and tell them what I believe but that "we don't know what happens after death", and they tend to agree with me about there not being an afterlife. But now I have a new issue. My little girl is 5. She has never set foot in a church, never heard of Jesus or God at all. When she was 3 and she asked about her grandparents who died I sort of hedged. I said "grandma went up in the stars." I dunno why I said that. I wanted something not frightening. I didn;t want to instill a LIE which I think the concept of heaven might be. But, you know, we die and our elements basically go back to the universe, and I thought it would be nice to look at the stars. She'd talk about grandma and grandma's dog in the stars.

Later I told her people live in our hearts because we love them after they die. We have the memories.

Well now it is getting to the point I don't know what to say. The other night in bed she was crying and saying, "everything dies! I don't want to die!" I try to reassure her that she is not going to die anytime soon, I am taking care of her etc. But then she says "I dont EVER want to die and I HAVE to die sometime don't I? And I don't want YOU to die! But you have to die! And I will be lonely." She also says things like "but when we die our bodies are gone. And our feelings are gone aren't they?" It is SO HARD for me not to break down sobbing with her because I don't want to die either, and I don't want my feelings to be gone, and thinking of her not existing anymore just makes me ache inside. I do not know how to handle this, what to say. I DO stay calm and positive with her and not show my own fear, I just try to be matter of fact and say how nice it is to be alive. But I am, truly, lost. To the point that I almost considered going back to a church today just so we could have the comfort of saying "when we die we get to be together forever!" I dont really believe it, but the alternative is really so distressing to me that maybe I sort of want to pretend there is an afetrlife. But my integrity won't let me lie to her, or to myself.

I'd go to a counselor, but since they are almost all Christian, and would probably try to tell me about Jesus and heaven, I don't think it would be too helpful. Any insights? Please help me with this, it is so very difficult for me.

How did you feel about death when you were Christian?

Please let me share some personal thoughts/experiences. Maybe you can relate, and maybe not. To me personally the only comfort I have found is while being Christian. Heres why...

While agnostic and confused, I was like you constantly thinking about, fearing death, the end, nothingness. I couldn't fathom non-existence and something didn't seem right about it. While Mormon since birth, I always felt like telestial garbage and that I had to score points all the time. The only peace I have been able to find is as a Christian. This is not to say I am Christian in the religious since, but Christian in that I simply trust Jesus. The comfort lies in that its not about me its about Jesus. Its not about how good i am or how many points I score, or even how Nice I am. For me personally the only philosophy that filled the void that has eliminated the fear of death and given me peace and abundance of life. I tried to fill that void with everything. Honestly I think everyone has a God shaped void that can only be fit by filling it with God (metaphorically speaking). Until I let him take it, I felt empty, lost and like you fearful too. Hope I am making sense here :)....its late.

Please don't think I am preaching here, I'm not. I am just sharing my own personal experience and kind of getting a feel for how you might have experienced things too.

Thanks for your post, and wishing you peace.

Oops, wrong place, this should follow Emanon's post. Still getting used to the set up here on the new board.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2010 12:51PM by Rebeckah.

As someone who is at peace with non-existence after life, I would say to my daughter, if she said expressed a fear of death, "It's okay to be scared. It's okay to not have all the answers. No one knows for sure what happens after death. What we can do is love each other, and enjoy every minute with one another because that is what life is about. Our job is also to leave this place better than when we arrived here no matter what we decide to do. What would you like to do to make things better or prettier? We can go plant a tree/flowers, make a birdhouse (or whatever it is she likes)." Always turn the conversation to something that will be positive or happy for her, something she will enjoy doing.


Some of what your daughter is feeling may be unknowingly coming from you. She can probably sense some of your fear and anxiety.

For myself, having goals for what I want to accomplish in life may have helped deter some of the fear. Also, getting to the point of accepting the inevitable is a process similar to grieving the death of a loved one. You once believed in an afterlife and now you don't, it is a loss and deserves to be grieved.
It doesn't mean you need to be happy about death but anticipate joyful times and experience life to its fullest, that's what it is about.

I hope this kind of helps.

What's happening in her life? What's influencing her? It doesn't seem typical for a 5-year-old to think about death.

My 6 year old has had a couple of crying episodes of being scared to get old and die...random and out of the blue....while sitting in the car, while at the grocery store. "So you mean no one lives forever?" followed by uncontrolable sobbing. I don't get it. I'm baffled. He's never dealt with death, so I don't understand. Hopefully it's just a phase.

It's long long time before she will even be in middle school, so being a grownup or maturing into old age is far far away. No need to think or worry about it now.

Then change the subject and talk about the here and now. Talk about fun things and brain storm favorite foods, colors, clothes, TV shows, toys, holidays, music, and friends.

Brad,

When I was a Christian I felt fine about death. No issues at all. In fact if I believed there was an afterlife of any kind I would be happier than I am now. It may sound crazy but I would rather there be a burning hell I could be in forever than to just not exist. Not existing is what scares me so badly. Of course, wanting to be with my children is another whole issue. I want to be with them forever and I am scared because I don't think that can happen. I want to "watch over them" if I die, and comfort them, but I don't believe that anymore. My parents have died. I was with my mother when she died. And I have felt nothing of either of them since their deaths, which happened many many years before I left the LDS church. I have begged God for comfort many times and got nothing. I have seen so much suffering, and have concluded there cannot be an afterlife (because surely my father would reach out to me, at least) or a god (because wouldn't God wrap some love around me and lift me up? I feel nothing). It makes no sense to me so I can't buy into it.

So yeah, for me to have that comfort again I would have to somehow convince myself to be a Christian again. But I think that would be sort of lying to myself, although I truly wish I did believe.

Emanon,

those are some good insights, thank you.

I guess if you can imagine how you'd feel being locked in a box with 3 days air in it and knowing there was no rescue coming... the sense of impending death... that is how I feel a lot of the time. Like death is hanging there and it is just a countdown now until I die... there is no escape. I feel rather panicked about it on occasion, but I try not to think about it.

Stray Mutt,

Actually, I did some reading about this. Before age 5, kids tend to think of death as just a temporary separation. Like they see in cartoons, someone "dies" and then pops back up and keeps going. But around age 5 they realize that death is real and permanent. Five years old is THE age when kids tend to make this realization, and according to what I have read, it is common for kids this age to fear death, especially if they haven't had religious "heaven" to make it seem less scary.

But, she often sees other kids with grandparents and she has none, all of hers died, so she asks a lot about where her grandparents are and if they exist at all anymore. The "in the stars" and "in our hearts" stuff she has just relized is not literal, so she is worried.

I was 7 when an uncle suddenly died. I felt very sad. We were Catholic then and I watched as my very ultra True Believing Catholic aunt (his wife) break down several times.

We had no concept of what happens when people die except "they went to God". That was comforting to me, as a child, but not to my aunt apparently. The so-called knowledge that "God called him home" was no great comfort to a young wife with two small children who were too young to have any memories of their dad.

I liked your "we go back to the stars" explanation. That would have been comforting to me as a child; so would the "people live in our hearts" assurance. I do wonder about your child, perhaps as someone pointed out, they are sensing your own dread and fear?

a person can do to prepare for death is to live their life to the fullest. Our time may be limited, but our capabilities are limitless. Maybe she'll become a scientist and travel to other galaxies in a spaceship or find a cure for cancer. Maybe she'll be a mother and raise a daughter to be President. Maybe she'll be a painter or a teacher or anything she wants....Death is not the main event in our lives.....living is.

Our presence, the act of "being," affects everything and everyone in the universe, just as everthing and everyone (?) in the universe affects us. In the end, we're all connected, so in that sense, we never really die.

May I suggest Parenting Beyond Belief by Dale McGowan. Or check out on utube Julia Sweeney Letting Go of God. Hope this helps.

Here's another way to look at death. Have you seen "The Lion King"? The circle of life? We all come from the Earth, we're sustained by the Earth while alive, and when we die, we go back to the Earth to help sustain others.

That's one way you can explain it, complete with a Disney movie to start the conversation. Your daughter's too young to know about how coffins and embalming fluid and whatnot taint the process.

I remember the night it hit me what death meant. Must have been 6 or 7 and have no memory of what triggered the feeling.

I recall lying in my bed too upset to even call my parents. I just all of a sudden knew that everyone I loved was going to die. We did attend a Christian church and believed in Jesus, etc. but it was not a comfort at all. I dont even thinK I cried - just lay there shaking with shock and grief.

With my own children,I just explained it the way I understood it. They had lost a dog and cats, etc. And I just said that we too die and go back to the earth. Dont know what they actually made of that.

This answer you gave Amanon worries me a bit:

"I guess if you can imagine how you'd feel being locked in a box with 3 days air in it and knowing there was no rescue coming... the sense of impending death... that is how I feel a lot of the time. Like death is hanging there and it is just a countdown now until I die... there is no escape. I feel rather panicked about it on occasion, but I try not to think about it."

I had twins (after 7 years of IVF) and suffered MAJOR depression. I was hospitalized 2 months before they were born and they were still born 3 months premature. That was almost 4 years now, and they are perfect! But it scares me to death to even think of my thoughts back then. When you mentioned... the sense of impending death... that rings with me, very vividly.

I had a constant, non stop sense of death at any minute. My heart raced each time I bathed them because I thought I would have a heart attack and they would drown on the tub. I could not look down from the upper floor of the house, because I felt drawn to toss myself overboard. I dreaded the many doctor's visits as I had to drive and constantly thought I would get into an accident or crash my car. I thought I had cancer. I cried every time I looked at them and thought they would be without a mother. I had a constant sense of panick at all times. It was crazy depression, baby blues, whatever you want to call it.

I do not want to say you have the postpartum blues, but you seem to have a major case of depression. Your description of being in a box running out of air, is dead on the feelings I had. You seem to be in great mourning of the prospect of 'eminent death'.

I would say that maybe you do need to see a councilour. Your panicky feelings indicate not just a sense of loss of your old beliefs, but somewhat a depressive state where you have trouble functioning or at least inducing calm and control to your children. They know you are struggling and unsure and very scared, so they are scared also.

I too went from believing in life after death, to not believing. But then I am now at the point where I can say, no one really knows what happens, and very strangely, that is a comfort. I do not betray myself by saying that, and I also am allowed to have hope that there may be something out there afterall.

Please note that there is no judgement here, I just had to write because I have felt that panicky feeling of immediate and constant death. Only counceling was able to help me put things in perspective.

Thank you for this. Yeah, a counselor might be in order if I can find a nonreligious one. I do want to add that I am not thinking about it constantly... BUT when it comes up I do feel very panicked and afraid. Especially when my child brings it up. But 90% of the time I am not thinking about death, so at least there's that. I do have anxiety about it the other 10% of the time though.

Perhaps death isn't the end you think it is. No I am not a missionary for any religion, but I have been where you are now.

I continued researching all things god and religion and everything else I could find although I do not have any answers I do have some thoughts and feelings that I would like to share with you.

Although I do not buy into the supernatural magical god of the bible, I do think there are events and phenomena that cannot be explained by current science or logic. As I have studied quantum physics and the new ideas evolving from that field of study I am beginning to think that life as we know it could be radically altered as we learn more about quantum physics. It is shedding new light on so many areas of thought previously held as fact by the scientific community and is changing the way scientists view many of the long-held physical laws thought to be engraved in granite. For example, there was a study conducted where electrons (the smallest particle known to man presently) were fired through a panel onto a screen positioned behind the panel. First through one hole in the panel, then through two holes and the patterns created by the electrons hitting the screen behind were observed and studied. When fired through one hole the electrons behaved precisely as they were expected to, they created a pattern similar to a column on the screen directly behind the hole, but when fired through two holes they did not behave at all as they were expected to. When fired through two holes rather than create the same pattern as when fired trough one hole only doubled as they expected, it created a wave pattern displaying that the electrons did not go through the holes as solid matter but as sound or energy. They wanted to analyze it further so they put a camera right at the panel where the holes were as the electrons came out the other side so that they could observe how the electrons exited the holes to create the wave pattern. What happened was what absolutely astounded them. When the camera was turned on to observe their behavior, the electrons behaved the way they first expected them to behave and they created the column behind each hole. In other words, the act of observing changed the behavior of randomly fired electrons, showing that the simple act of observing and expectation changed the behavior of the electrons. In other words, what would appear to be supernatural phenomena occurred. Thought changed the behavior of the electrons.

Well, what I am trying to say is that presently no one has the answer about where we came from or where we go when we leave, but those answers could be forthcoming with the study of quantum physics, or at least a better understanding of life as we know it. Right now, nothing is absolute. No one can say with absolute certainty that when we die that is the end of everything, as on the flip side, no one can say with absolute certainty that we go to heaven or anywhere else. Just keep an open mind and keep researching and maybe you will come to a conclusion that will feel comfortable to you and that you can share with your little one.

As for me, I think that in some way that I do not understand, we do continue on when we die. As for the question of why we are here, where we come from and where we go when we die I have no clue, but I feel comfortable with my observation that death is not the end of the human spirit. Beyond that I have no answers but that answer is for me good enough for now.

Wow, this is great! I have a scientific background myself. I am going to do some more reading. Any books you'd recommend?

My conflict has been:
a) there CANT be a bible god, it just makes no sense and if he DID exist, I would not want anything to do with him because of the way he lets people suffer
b) thinking there is a heaven and people living there and gosts or angels seems like fairy tale thinking to me
c) if my loved ones who have died COULD contact or comfort me, why haven't they? Why hasn't god?
d) when things die it appears to me they are just gone. I cannot fathom a heaven full of cricket spirits but to me a life is a life... if people live on, how about our pets? How about squirrels? Bugs? Amoebas?? I can't fathom it.
e) somehow I feel like maybe our consciousness might live on somehow but I can't really find any evidence for this.

Thanks, you have me thinking.

"Down The Rabbit Hole...What the Bleep Do We Know?" It is fascinating!!!

Also try reading the Clestine Prophecy and Celestine Vision. They are an interesting read and have some very unique ideas about god and such. Some of what they say is a little hokey and for me they tied religion in too much, but overall they are a good read and really get you thinking about some of the possibilities.

Your going to the stars answer is brilliant. After all, we are stardust, born of the stars and, eventually, we return to the stars. You could tell your child that someday we all go back to the stars.

If your 5 year old is in a state of fright about death I can't help thinking that you communicated your death angst to her. This just didn't come out of nowhere.

For the record, many people are not afraid to die. I am not afraid of dying, although I am kind of hoping not to be murdered.

It might be more common to be afraid of ever dying in the wealthier countries, where you can grow to adulthood without losing a single person near to you! Maybe some historical perspective might help you (how many people have lived and died before you). Or realize that you are a total accident to begin with and how the atoms in your body were formed in suns and other astronomical phenomena. And these atoms will continue to exist until the universe dies in a few billion years.I find that thought very calming and even consoling.

I used to freak out about death ALL the time. Would I be here or not exetera, especially when my testimony went down the tubes. Then I went through a very serious depression where I actually contemplated killing myself. After much thought on the subject, I came to a couple conclusions...

1. I have no control over when I die, other then trying to stay healthy, exercising, etc., there isn't anything I can really control outside forcewise. However, if I keep fretting over it, I won't be able to actually enjoy the life I am currently living. Since it's something I CAN'T control, I made a conscious decision therefore not to worry about it.

2. If I exist in some form after I die, ie., as a spirit, then cool. I figure if there is a God I will be accountable to in some form, a lot of it will be his/her fault for my confusion during life since vague fuzzies about things aren't a real determination of truth anyways.

and

3. If I cease to exist, I won't be around to worry about it then either. Actually a more fearful scenario, which religion uses to scare people into compliance is the Scary God figure who is so MAD at you for jacking off, he's going to burn you for all eternity. If that's what the Sky Daddy is like, then I'd rather cease to exist then spend all eternity burning in hell because I offended a God who LOVES me so much he will disown me spilling precious seed on the ground.

...often go through a phase where they are preoccupied by death. My nephew would look at family photos and ask, "Is he dead? Is she dead?" etc. It will pass.

It sounds like your little girl is just in need of comforting. Tell her that mommy is going to be around for many, many years. You will dance at her wedding, you will be there when she has her own daughter, etc.

Explain things in a way the child will understand but do not promise something that you are not sure you can deliver on. It may cause anger or hurt years later. "Mom is not here and she said she would be!" Children remember things you don't expect them to remember, and sometimes things you wish they didn't remember.

Instead of saying, "Tell her that mommy is going to be around for many, many years. You will dance at her wedding, etc." I would suggest saying "I will always love you, I will always be in your heart."

I think that many children between 4 and 6 go through a period of exploring the idea of death and what this means. And although not exactly true, it is developmentally appropriate for you to reassure them that they don’t have to worry about you or daddy dying. Everybody dies but you and she aren’t going anywhere for a very long time. Most kids are more afraid of abandonment and being orphaned than of real death. But of course it comes up when rover or grandma or Mrs. smith dies. All through our lives, death has been something our family has had to deal with. My kids and I talked about how sad it was, what we wished we could have said or done that we didn’t get the chance. We especially talked about the one last thing we wished we had a chance to say to whoever died. We wrote letters, drew pictures, had funerals, cried, and processed things until they were less immediate. The “circle of life” idea is a lot of how my husband and I explained our ideas. We also talked about how knowing people (or pets) and loving them changed us and that because of that, we will always have those people with us forever. For example, even though I didn’t always like to brush Rover, I had to anyway. Rover taught me to be more responsible. Every time I act responsibly, a little bit of Rover will be with me and nothing can ever take that away. We left a candle out that we (or kids could ask ) lit when we were remembering someone we missed.

Ok, look. I personally think there is something out there because of things in my life that have happened. Do I think that Jesus exists? I have no idea. Do I care if any church is true or not? Not a single bit. Good things happen to people all the time that are not simply caused by nature. There is something out there. Maybe I should care more, but I stopped caring about what truly happens to me after death and anything that I could do to change what happens after the church taught me things contrary to my better, inborn judgment. God loves everybody and shows it.
I also have reason to think that God exists based on science, too. Maybe I'm super naive, but the fact that everything exists as a result of the same basic thing, the atom, I have reason to believe that there had to be someone that made everything function as a result of that same basic structure, unless I simply don't understand what atoms are and how they could simply just be results of natural phenomena.
I personally find it interesting that I will die. I don't always welcome the idea so easily, but I think that the reason most people fear death is that we have no control over when and how. If we were all to take control over our own deaths, I really truly think that more people would be excited to die, instead of afraid. It would then seem more like a journey instead of an end-point, and a lot more people would find it easier to deal with the absence of their loved ones. They would simply become excited to follow in the journey too. Now, trying to get that kind of idea ingrained into our culture seems to be impossible, but I welcome the idea, if only to see how it would work, or if it even would. We never want to do something if somebody pushes us into it, but if we choose to do something ourselves, it becomes more tolerable and even enjoyable. Just my two cents. Now, because I want to do it, I'm going to enjoy my math homework, but not because someone is forcing me to do it!

Hello anon7

IMHO, the existence of an afterlife doesn't have anything to do with there being a God, or with Jesus, or with any churches whatsoever. These are separate matters. Personally, I don't have the slightest doubt that we continue living, and in fact, come back here many times, over and over again. The evidence is all around us, and to me, it's overwhelming. Serious researchers like Dr. Brian Weiss and Dr. Ian Stevenson, and many others, have written extensively about it. The amount of close relatives and acquaintances that have had experiences to this effect is also overwhelming, in my case, as it is with many other people I know.

It seems that there is nothing mystical about the afterlife. People rest, are treated, work, learn, love, and eventually get ready to come back. The kind of experience one can have is as diverse as ourselves... no two are exactly alike.

Coincidentally, there is a new movie showing in theaters all over Brazil right now, called Nosso Lar (Our Home), which is already the highest box office success in brazilian movie history. It's based on a book channeled in the 1940s by the great medium Francisco Candido Xavier (Chico Xavier), telling the story of a doctor from Rio de Janeiro, and his return to the afterlife after a premature death. It's in fact extremely accurate for what most of us can hope to go through after death. It's not out in DVD or Blu-ray yet, but you can see a trailer with english subs here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrjUNM4x1uE

Not everyone goes through a hard time like he initially did after death, though, so don't get scared. Lots of people already have family and friends waiting for them on "the other side", depending on their situation. In a few months it will probably be for sale on Amazon, so I advise everyone who is curious about possibilities for life after death to check it out.

If I could choose to live forever, I would. People always say they'd get bored or want to die eventually but I don't think I ever would.

If people do come back and live again HERE, as in, some sort of reincarnation, that is really also no comfort to me as I would not be able to remember anything about myself or what I did or thought or my loved ones.

I think about how I was "nonexistant" before I was born and that THAT is probably what death is because if we had zero conscious existance before, I guess it stands to reason we return to that state. And that is also distressing to me. It's almost like nothing matters then. Sure, we can plant a garden, be kind to people, etc and when we die we left the world a better place, but in 200 years no one at all will remember any of that. There is no lasting impact unless we are some revolutionary like the people in history books.

was Anne Rice's vampire novels.
What a lonely existence, being trapped as the same individual for all eternity, watching everyone around you grow old and die. I really don't think we are "meant" to last forever. Life is a temporary thing, with beginning, middle, end.

We usually remember everything in our state in between lifetimes, and that is when we have a chance to evaluate how much we have achieved. There are two main reasons why nature makes us forget everything each time we have a new physical body:

First, because we usually have such terrible guilt, or terrible anger, from our past experiences, that would make it impossible for us to have a fresh start or even to remain sane. We are talking about centuries of cruelty, hatred, shame, guilt, and so on.

Second, to really prove to ourselves that we have indeed learned the lessons we need, we must do things right without the fear of punishment, without needing a reason... it must come from within the heart, and be automatic. That's when we are ready to move on to better places and better experiences. Only through reincarnation we can really show how much we have improved.

I must tell you that there are countless people in between lifetimes that are begging on their knees for a chance to forget all their overwhelming sorrows, by receiving a new body, and having a chance to start over.

As for your loved ones, we usually meet the ones we love over and over again, and grow together through the ages. Any separation is only temporary, when needed.

At any given evening, in almost any Brazilian town, there will always be several Spiritist or Umbanda centers where mediums connect to the spirits of the deceased, and receive messages, prescriptions, books, all of it for free. I've seen several fellow american doctors coming here, seeing it all, and going back home with the certainty that life does go on. Dr Weiss is one of them, although he only came here after he already had had his life altering experiences with his patients.

This is so common here, that last week, one of my own patients channeled a spirit in my office, during an appointment. I asked some things about family members who live far away, whom this lady has never even heard of. The details and insights were amazing, as I expected.

It's all around us, and we don't have to believe in God, Jesus, or any churches to acknowledge these phenomena. They are a part of life, and they are within laws of nature which we don't understand very well, yet.

While comforting your children, always leave these possibilities open... and leave them open to yourself, as well. I hope you can soon leave this fear of death behind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2010 03:31PM by jobim.

You sound completely delusional to me. Yet you treat patients of some kind? You are credentialed for something? Did you sleep through all your science classes in high school and college?

From the Wikipedia entry:

"Life After Life is a 1975 book written by psychiatrist Raymond Moody. It is a report on a qualitative study in which Moody interviewed 150 people who had undergone near-death experiences (NDEs). The book presents the author's composite account of what it is like to die. On the basis of his collection of cases, Moody identified a common set of elements in NDEs:

* (a) an overwhelming feeling of peace and well-being, including freedom from pain.
* (b) the impression of being located outside one's physical body.
* (c) floating or drifting through darkness, sometimes described as a tunnel.
* (d) becoming aware of a golden light.
* (e) encountering and perhaps communicating with a "being of light".
* (f) having a rapid succession of visual images of one's past.
* (g) experiencing another world of much beauty.

Life After Life sold more than 13 million copies, was translated into a dozen foreign languages and became an international best seller, which made the subject of NDEs popular and opened the way for many other studies.

Moody wrote a second book, Reflections on Life After Life (ISBN 0817714233), in 1977."

(ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_After_Life)

Amazon.com has a publisher's description about the book online at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_After_Life

Regarding your child, it's natural for a 5-year-old to be worried about death. In a child's mind, if she/he can die, then Mommy and Daddy can die. And that would be painful. Most people, including children, want to avoid pain (masochists are one exception).

Concerning death, you could point out to your daughter that if no one ever died, the world would be so crowded with tens of billions of people, as well as animals, marine life, plants, insects, etc. that nobody would be able to move. The shopping mall and stores, the streets - everywhere would be jam-packed with people. Houses would have to be much smaller because everyone would need to live in a home, but nobody would die (and make space by dying). Would she like having to live in a much smaller bedroom and not having room outdoors to run and play because it would be filled with all the people who had never died but had lived forever? You can use her budding reason to help your daughter see that dying is a good thing, as natural a part of life as being born.

I imagine that there are children's books on the subject of death that you might want to review (check w/ your local library or search online).

In summary, no one can authoritatively say what happens after death. Is there some sort of continuation of awareness/consciousness after the physical body shuts down? According to people who have experienced an NDE - yes. Science has not determined what the origin of awareness/consciousness is, or how it came into being in our universe that began some 13.7 billion years ago. Has it always existed? Is it 'eternal'?

It's good to reflect on such questions, but in the final analysis, we're alive and we might as well enjoy life - as long as it lasts - as much as possible, IMO.

No offense, just asking, are you tending to focus too much on dying, and maybe that's why it is such an issue?

You're here now, alive, and it seems like that is what it's best to focus on.

After all any of us could drop dead at anytime. So if we worry about dying, it seems like we are wasting time.

I am not trying to treat your post lightly. I hear that you are concerned.

As far as your daughter, mine says the same thing. (She wants to be the first person to never die) I think a lot of kids do. When they realize people die, they figure out they are going to die.

Say yes, everybody dies someday. But that is a long way off, so we must enjoy the life we have.

I think I hear you saying, "Well it's not that simple". I guess if you have difficulty focusing on living, then counseling could help.

I know that the Mormon polygamous, racist, sexist, elitist, rule-bound God does not exist. Mormons can not tell God what to do. Mormons can not judge for God. God does not need Mormons to do ordinances for God's Dead, or to straighten out all the names and records in Heaven. There is no Celestial Kingdom, with its 3 degrees of glory, its visitation rules, its petty entry requirements. This was all made up by Swedenberg, Joseph Smith, and other con men and/or overzealous fanatics, of various organized religions.

The Mormons don't own God. (Quite the contrary: God is not there. Christ is not there.) When I found out the Mormon church was a hoax, my initial reaction was to denounce Jesus and God as part of the hoax, too. For four years I doubted it all, including life after death.

Personal experience, and the experiences of other honest souls has taught me that God lives, and that there is an afterlife for us. I'm still learning, and sometimes I doubt the divinity of Christ--but I certainly don't doubt what he taught. I think our spirituality will probably be evolving as long as we live. There are as many "Gods" as there are people. Each individual comprhends him differently. (A big step away from the "one size fits all" attitude of the "one true church")

As a TBM I feared death as much as you do. As a divorced mother, the Mormons said I would NOT be with my family forever. My children were taught in Primary that they would be alone in the Hereafter, and our family would pass each other as strangers. My children had trauma and nightmares for years over that!!!!! Your child is experiencing the normal shock of discovering what death is. Mormons deliberately use fear and coertion to keep members in the cult. Be glad your daughter doesn't have to deal with this extra burden.

You will find God within yourself. So will your child. I'm not saying that study isn't necessary--it is! Especially, you and your daughter can study nature and science together. Science has always strengthened my faith in God and in the Universe!

One thing I do know for sure, from study and personal revelation, is that, as Carl Sagan says, "We are all made of the same 'star stuff.' I believe in the philosophical determination that we are all one.

BTW--have you just recently gone through a divorce? The reason I ask, is that you and your daughter both might be suffering from seperation anxiety. You might be afraid of dying and, as your children's only parent, leaving your little ones all alone. Maybe you haven't fully recovered from the death of your parents. When I had that "in-a-box-with-no-air" feeling, I was suffering from PTSD. By resolving some of these or other issues and phobias, you will also ease your fear of death. I also recommend a good non-Mormon therapist.