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Posted by: edy ( )
Date: March 13, 2019 10:29PM

does anyone know if the mormom missionaries have been deported from russia yet while the super 15 are having a good time roaming around in rome?

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Posted by: rocomop ( )
Date: March 13, 2019 11:52PM

The last I heard, on another very heavily populated exmo board (posted yesterday), John Dehlin had put up an email from a missionary in that mission written on P-day (last Monday) to his email blast subscribers, in which the missionary said that the two elders were still incarcerated and that the other elders were NOT living in their regular apartments, but had been scattered around, and were living very 'rough', as in no beds, no bedding materials.

And the missionary reported that along with this 'go to the mattresses' instruction, they were also told to destroy their 20 years worth of Area Books.

Dehlin was asked by the letter writer's father to take down the letter, with people speculating that the Russians would figure out what an Area Book was and use that against Mormon proselyting efforts and the missionaries/volunteers.

Hopefully, someone else will recall what it was that the church refused to do, which left the elders in the clutches of Russian authorities. I think it had something to do with their visas, but I'm not certain.

I'm sure that once the incarcerated elders are released, we'll hear about how God freed them from their travails.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: March 14, 2019 12:17AM

Their parents must be frantic. I would be.

I hope with all my heart that TSCC does everything in its power to get those kids back safely, and has more sense than to send in any more.

Am I writing science fiction here, or is this possible?

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Posted by: Heartless ( )
Date: March 14, 2019 12:24AM

As I understand it, they would have been released if they voluntarily gave up their visas. The church refused.

Didn't really matter as a judge revoked at least one visa.

Supposedly it was going to take about a week for everything to flow. (Read failure to bribe and time for accidental bruising to heal)

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Posted by: wowza ( )
Date: March 15, 2019 03:48AM

Hold on...

so are you saying that if the church gave up the visas, the missionaries could go free?

As in, they could go home?

Or would they be stuck there with no visa?

If its the former then I am very confused. They could save these guys, these volunteers, whom the church decided should go to Mother Russia of all places. And they choose not to.

Instead the church focuses on RMN's upcoming birthday celebration?

WTF?

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: March 15, 2019 05:30AM

it seems like it would have been an offer to forgo any prosecution in exchange for them voluntarily leaving the country.

The Russian government would have the authority to take procedures to cancel the visas in any case. The only reason for asking the missionaries to voluntarily surrender their visas would be to save the hassle of going through those procedures. (Or so it would seem.)

Reporters these days are so sloppy that sometimes it's hard to get any kind of clear idea of what's going on. It's like one of those "telephone" games where some message is relayed through 20 different people and it comes out completely garbled at the other end. The problem with a lot of "journalism" these days is that the facts immediately get garbled by the first reporter and everything is downhill from there.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: March 14, 2019 12:22AM

I guess it's a good thing that parents aren't in the media, thinking the down-low is best for their sons.

RESOLVED: ChurchCo made & makes Terrible Mistakes in sending mish's to these countries, but with unpaid labor / mish's or their families paying their way, it's ripe for abuse.

edit: it's time ChurchCo ended the whole program, an earlier thread post suggested that they transition to paid missionaries with a lot more choices in their assignments would be a good compromise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2019 12:24AM by GNPE.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: March 15, 2019 05:22AM

to demonstrate his power by miraculously teletransporting the missionaries to complete safety, causing them to appear in the middle of Temple Square, surrounded by a host of angels.

That would show those darn Russkies who is boss.

Oh, dang! I forgot. God doesn't do that stuff anymore. You can only read about it in the Holy Books. God doesn't like to put on a show these days. Guess the missionaries are on their own. Maybe God will send them a warm fuzzy feeling between 3:30 and 3:45 pm next Sunday.

If I were those missionaries, I would tell the Russkie authorities that I wanted to defect to the Russian Orthodox Church and request asylum from the asylum known as Mormonism.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: March 15, 2019 01:29PM

Perhaps a sympathetic prison guard will offer them some good Siberian weed to ease their anxiety; would they accept it?

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: March 15, 2019 01:45PM

Why isn’t the church bringing all of the mishies home? They are obviously not welcome there. Maybe they believe the King Lamoni story. If they just keep being PITAs, the rooskis will come around and Putin will experience a miraculous conversion. Oh wait, I forgot. The GAs are dumber than shit.

If I were the parents of those kids, I would sue big time.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: March 15, 2019 07:03PM

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> If I were the parents of those kids, I would sue
> big time.


As I'm sure most any atty would tell you, Everything to do with the membership is set up so ChurchCo isn't liable;
'volunteers', ya know....

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: March 15, 2019 05:13PM

Why isn't the church bringing missionaries home from hostile environments?

Because it would look like a big failure lacking inspiration!

Also, the church is willing to sacrifice a few for their own sake. Isn't there a scripture about perishing in disbelief (a whole nation).

I really hope that they can safely return.

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Posted by: rocomop ( )
Date: March 15, 2019 08:48PM

Excellent point!

On April 16, 2018, a Mormon news source published an article in which three new temples were confirmed, including "...a temple somewhere in Russia..."
https://www.lds.org/church/news/temple-announcement-changes-lives-of-members-in-russia-india-nicaragua?lang=eng

Then in a MormonNewsRoom article on May 03, 2018, Non-American prophet Uchtdorf said, while visiting in Russia, “We’re very grateful for Russia to be a country where religious freedom is established. We may practice our faith here.”

While perhaps a viable sentiment from the perspective of the Russian Orthodox Church, it obviously doesn't really count for Mormonism, since Mormonism is a church which believes it shall and must proselytize. On that basis, his cited statement is utter hogwash. Russian law since 2016 prohibits Mormon missionaries from proselyting.
https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/elder-uchtdorf-discusses-future-russia-temple

An article in the SLTribune, dated January 04, 2019, says regarding the Russian temple, "Apostle Dieter F. Uchtdorf visited Moscow soon after the spring General Conference and tamped down expectations that a House of the Lord would be rising anytime soon in Russia."
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/01/04/this-week-mormon-land/
Funny how this isn't evident in the above Mormonnewsroom(dot)org article regarding that visit!

Finally, here's the link to a puff piece regarding Rusty Nelson and his devotion to the Mormon-Russian cause written by a TBM. This simple, factual article provides insight regarding the interest fueling Rusty's hopes and loyalty (it would be fealty if Russia loved him back) regarding/to Russia.
https://thirdhour.org/blog/faith/lds-temples/russian-temple-meaningful-president-nelson/


I think it would be a safe bet that Rusty will not be attending the Russian temple dedication. And while it's a slightly more risky bet, I'd put a small amount of money on there never being a Mormon temple in Russia. Which means that Uchtdorf's prediction that the process of getting it built will be slow is a remarkable understatement.

We're almost a year down the road from the announcement of the Russian temple and no location has been named. And missionaries can't proselyte and more and more members of record are becoming inactive. The church is NOT growing in Russia. The church is shrinking in Russia and the missionaries are being watched to make sure that they do not stem, much less reverse that tide.

We are now living in a good time for those of us who are convinced that the church lied to us when it said, via its lying, often abusive SLC leadership, that Mormonism was on a Mission from God.

It's good that I am living in a time when calling bullshit on the church has a solid place at the communal table.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: March 15, 2019 08:25PM

Gee, It's not like the missionaries are pawns / puppets in a chess game between the U.S., ChurchCo, & Russia, is it?

They had me worried there for a moment!

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