I'm a history buff, especially regarding PNW RRs, and the western RRs.


The two railroads competing for the gov't subsidy / first transcon were the Central Pacific & the Union Pacific; they were paid according to how many miles of track they laid.

They met in Utah in 1869, a mere 22 years after what we now call the first (european) settlements.

The first RR didn't go to GSLC, so BY & some of the others built a branch line from GSLC to Ogden to connect with the UP main East-West line; better than those hand carts, right Brigham?

later, other branches were built to SW utah, including Provo.

BY was instrumental in the work of the UP, he contracted with the UP for labor ( not him laboring, of course); many Mormons were involved.

When the UP didn't pay up, BY pleaded to the UP directors so the workers c/would be paid, (as far as I know) he & workers didn't receive all the promised wages.

It's my opinion that instead of paying off 100% in cash, ChurchCo was compensated with UP stock. This might have explained why so many missionaries trip to the mission field involved travel on the UP (mine did, '67).

As we know, ChurchCo has NEVER divulged which companies they hold stocks in, IDK if the laborers of that era were ever paid in full...

If anyone cares to add to this, I'd appreciate it very much!!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2019 07:29PM by GNPE.

I read that BY swapped the RR's payment option for stocks for the church. That he, BY, was directly responsible for workers not getting paid.

No?

Also that when Utah was given money for soldiers' uniforms, BY kept the money for himself.

BY appears to have been a thief in many domains. Upon his death, the church had to sue his estate to get funds, etc., back that BY had helped himself too.

Be it far from me to argue with you about RR histroy--that's just what I had read.


A dear fellow invited my son and I to see his model RR. I was looking for someone who could create a helix platform for track, and was referred to him. So fun and interesting.

I watched many years ago that mentioned the UP not paying BY, and was surprised that he didn't go Old Testament on them (at least in sermons), thinking that maybe they had him over a barrel because they were the big dog. I never considered that maybe he finagled a deal that helped him.......

Kathleen-

I understand what you say is correct about the stock options (why not stock itself?).

Yes, BY's estate was a Royal Mess, lots of loans to him that ChurchCo 'insisted' on being repaid. Also, some of his widows 'didn't do so well' (screwed Again, ha ha).

I don't remember the gory details of the BY/UP disagreement, but I do know that the famous photograph of the driving of the golden spike, arguably the most famous photo of the 19th century, did not include BY. He was not welcome.

I think the connecting railroad that built north from SLC to connect with Union Pacific was the Utah Central Ry. Of course, it was affectionately known as the Polygamy Central.

I'm 100% certain that Harrold B. Lee sat on the board of directors for Union Pacific.

I know that GBH received some accolades/recognition for his work on the Denver Rio Grande & Western. He also made many references about train cars being diverted to the wrong tracks and destinations in some of his talks.

One thing that jumped out at it me from various "candid photos" of the first presidency was one of Oaks wearing a hat with Union Pacific. It wouldn't surprise me if Oaks and others played a major role in the redevelopment of downtown SLC for the Lord's glorious mall. I believe some UP rail lines had to be rerouted for the massive project and the church probably paid out for some of the tracks and property.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2019 08:53PM by messygoop.

Yes, the RRs were considered an Essential Industry, some have written that GBH was exempted from the draft by that move (he also probably had free RR transport as was the custom for RR workers!)

(not knowing operating details from those days...) I think the fact that the two RRs metover water (SL) must have been a nightmare! In those days, RRs only ran trains over their own tracks....

The presence of the causeway made some environmental changes, but few / no one cared in those days.

The two railroads did not meet over water. Promontory Summit is far from water.

The causeway was built later.

Read Leonard Arrington's Great Basin Kingdom chapter on the railroads in Utah to understand what happened and who got what. The church got a lot of supplies and rolling stock, including a fancy RR lavishly decorated private RR car for BY to ride in. There was a newspaper article about the car years ago. I'll look and see if I can find it.

Church leadership was involved with Huntington, Stanford, Jay Gould, and other robber barons.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2019 10:31AM by tumwater.

I read the book "the men who built the transcontinental railroad" by Stephen Ambrose. It contains a great deal of interesting history about the big 4, stanford, hopkins, krocker, huntington. Brigham was one of the very first financiers of the Union Pacific. He had some kind of connections with his son who was lobbying and a deal was struck where Brigham became a major share holder. So at the IPO, he owned a pile of the stock. It was a wonderful investment that was practically guaranteed because the US government was backing it. It couldn't fail. This was the first time the feds decided to break the constitution and meddle in business at such an enormous undertaking all for manifest destiny. The opening of the west for the Anglo-Saxons.

Brigham in the contract in the negotiations was to also receive 25 cents per mile (or some figure) for providing the Mormon Labor through Utah Territory. And the Railroad provided the picks, shovels, wheel barrows, hats. He obviously pocketed a large chunk of the contract money for himself as any good capitalist would do.

(Just look at how much the Waltons make compared to their workers, currently They're worth more than the bottom 40% of the country...)

The UP was engaged in fraud from the very beginning. There were many prominent politicians involved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cr%C3%A9dit_Mobilier_scandal

I have little or no doubt that BY wouldn't pass up an opportunity to 'help himself' in any scam that came down the (rail)road...

No Moral Compass.


Do we have any documentation (not white-washed) on how he treated his wives? How about his staff?

My Great Great Grandfather James Crane was part of the Mormon labor that helped build the Transcontinental Railroad. In his history he mentions helping build the railroad through Weber Canyon. He never says a word about being paid for his labor.

Remember that Corinne, UT was "The Chicago of the West" and growing big with the Railroad going through it.

Brigham Young CURSED it.

It did not prosper and is now a hole in the road craphole town in Box Elder Country.

For those interested in RR history. The UP Steam Shop is finishing up the restoration of the UP. No. 4014 "The Big Boy".

To celebrate the 150th anniversary of the opening of the RR this spring it, and the 844, will make the trip from Cheyenne to Ogden.

https://www.up.com/heritage/steam/schedule/index.htm

The 844 will be on display in Ogden from Mon., April 29th through Sat., May 4th. The 4014 will be on display Thur., May 9.

I'm looking forward to watching them pull out of Cheyenne and going over Sherman Hill.

So will Rusty's next inspiration involve a train ride behind a giant steam engine through Weber Canyon?

I expect church involvement in the transcontinental celebration at Ogden.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2019 01:15PM by messygoop.

would Russ settle for the Heber Creeper?

GNPE Wrote:
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> would Russ settle for the Heber Creeper?


Sure, he could be known as the Heber Creep.

Richard:

I hope the UP assigns some cars to follow those locos; the brakes on engines are set up so that the cars of the following train does most of the slowing & stopping effort; this is especially true for mountain grades!

Yes, they are pulling a proper train. One car is always a travelling work shop, and then there are sleepers for the guys who keep the thing running. And usually VIP car and caboose to boot.

I doubt that a mainline locomotive required train-brakes (per-car brakes) to stop itself on any grade it was designed to negotiate. The loco had conventional brakes - and very likely dynamic brakes as well. On a steam-loco, the latter were known as "water-brakes", or more correctly as "LeChatelier brakes".

Thank you, Richard the Bad, for this information. My older brother and I are steam fans, and he is into model railroading. We used to ride our bicycles to the train station, to watch the commuter steam engines huff and chuff. What a sight!

I thought I knew about most of the Mormon investments, but I had no idea there was a connection with the Mormons and the Railroad, except for GBH.

I'm corrected regarding the meeting point!

the Central Pacific later became the Southern Pacific (I don't know much about that change), the SP built the causeway in / about 1904.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2019 01:35PM by GNPE.

Maybe UP knew of BY's policy of exploiting "gentiles" and returned the favor.

BY Could pull nearly Anything out of his a**, couldn't he?


birds of a feather!