Apparently in 1/10 the span of our existence (if we assume Homo Sapiens Sapiens are 100,000 years old) over the past 10,000 years of rapidly increasing industrialization/polution, we have caused a mass extinction, dubbed the Holocene or Anthropocene Extinction, the 6th and one of the worst mass extinctions in the history of planet Earth. The last one wiped 70% of the known species off the face of the Earth, including dinosaurs.
Currently there are an estimated 100 to 1,000 times more species going extinct than during normal (background extinction) levels.
So apparently, ultimately,If nature tended towards chaos, there would be no natural order, no evolution, no life. Right? So Nature tends towards life existing, otherwise we wouldn't exist.

Why?

Since we have yet to answer that question by looking outside,
Perhaps we can answer that question by looking inside, deep inside, like at the micro organisms inside of us.
Viruses for instance. Phages in particular, By far the most ubiquitous, deadly, and successful life form on the planet, given theyve survived all 6 extinctions, even though, technically they are not really alive, since they don't reproduce on their own.

Yet somehow, amazingly, they are capable of navigating through space (and your body) and of carrying DNA and RNA, identifying their host bacteria, (T4 Bacteriophage destroys Ecoli) attaching to and injecting its RNA into its host, performing genetic surgery on its host with tiny protein machines, unzipping the hosts Double Helix of DNA, and zipping its single strand of RNA onto the hosts half helix of DNA and reprogramming its hosts DNA to completely change its purpose, from our deadly killer, to a mass producer, of hundreds of copies of the specific virus, deadly to its species, at which point it explodes and ejects a tiny clone army of hundreds of tiny robot ninja killers, responsible for killing 1/4 of the bacteria in the ocean every day.
If they all went on strike and didnt show up for work, we would all be dead inside of a week.
So perhaps we, all life forms, not only owe our existence to, but were created by and to host, the oldest life form, the undefeated 5 time world champion apocalypse winner, a tiny undead killer ninja robot, the phage. (Greek for "Eat").
And now that we are vying for worlds deadliest species, by wiping out so many species of animals, apparently phages will survive this mass extinction like the 5 before, like zombies and have a field day and create a new form of life, pre destined to self destruct, so new life forms can emerge, wise enough to avoid self destruction.
Kind of like reincarnation from within, until we get it right and quit self destructing.
Or maybe mass extinction is just nature's way of spring cleaning?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction
https://youtu.be/z9gHuAwxwAs



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2019 04:36PM by schrodingerscat.

All hail Entropy!

elderolddog Wrote:
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> All hail Entropy!

If the universe tended toward entropy would we exist?

From my perspective, I exist. That makes me feel pretty good.

As for entropy, I have no reason to doubt that the mechanism this word attempts to describe exists. There is X energy in the universe and the notion is that eventually, the universe will have X - X = 0 energy.

Systems run out of energy and the universe is a system, so it could happen. If I'm still around then, I'm sure I'll join in the search for a new source of energy...maybe...probably...

A real TBM told me that we don't need to worry about the damage man is doing to the environment, climate change and etc because the earth will soon be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

The arrogance of ignorance.

Shinehah Wrote:
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> A real TBM told me that we don't need to worry
> about the damage man is doing to the environment,
> climate change and etc because the earth will soon
> be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
>
> The arrogance of ignorance.

No wonder Mormons voted for Individual 1 more than any other demographic.
They're convinced he was divinely elected to fulfill their long overdue doomsday prophecies by hitting the big red reset button on the football.
Judging by the fire sale of Jefferson's experiment in democracy, they're probably, unfortunately going to end up right.
Dead right.

That was very interesting!

Fascinating analysis, Schrodinger's Cat, but how can you be so certain?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> Fascinating analysis, Schrodinger's Cat. but how
> can you be so certain?

Schrodinger's Cat can't be certain of my existence. Neither can you.

I'm not certain.
Its just a possible answer as to why life exists, instead of total chaos.
Perhaps our purpose was right under our noses the whole time, literally, to serve as hosts to the oldest and most ubiquitous creature on the planet. Since there are ten times more of them inside of us than human cells, perhaps they are determining more than we give them credit for?

If we can strip the word "determine" of volition, then yes. Empirically, complex life is a byproduct of the biological imperative informing simple life.



PS. I had a cat once. I suspect, but can't be sure, that a friend named Heisenberg absconded with it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2019 05:56PM by Lot's Wife.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If we can strip the word "determine" of volition,
> then yes. Empirically, complex life is a
> byproduct of the biological imperative informing
> simple life.
>
>
>
> PS. I had a cat once. I suspect, but can't be
> sure, that a friend named Heisenberg absconded
> with it.

Haha awesome.
I have a whole bit about my theory of everything involving cats and how they are really the gods they think they are and we are just their servants.

And all this time I thought I was the product of 546.3956 (to the 938573.29384 power) monkeys pounding out code in a distant quadrant of the Cosmos.

¿ so we should bow before our phage overlords then ? ~

Compared to mass extinction, Mormonism doesn’t seem so bad. It’s par for the course.

The only things left alive will be cockroaches and Keith Richards.

No way. Cockroaches won’t last that long.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> The only things left alive will be cockroaches and
> Keith Richards.


Waterbears and phages, the same things that survived the past 5.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2019 01:37PM by schrodingerscat.

Aren't there places to discuss this controversial subject without starting a major non-recovery related war? This issue debate has permanently destroyed relationships and civility here at RfM.

I love when biology and metaphysics have sex and create babies. You end up with the mules of the science communities. Capable of carrying a ton of conversation but in the end unable to propagate themselves.

Seriously, however close to the truth this may be it is worthless since it is impossible to validate. Stick with real world problems and don't create scenarios just so you can debate them.

BTW, chaos doesn't work the way you think it does.

Extinction events are delineated by a decrease in biodiversity among complex organisms and are considered to happen simply because complex organisms are more fragile. Any major change in the biosphere would endanger a complex organism because with complexity comes slower adaptation. It isn't a mystery it is simple biology.

The best building blocks of life (that we know about) are the most basic lowest forms of configurations of nucleic acids (e.g. phage, virus, bacteria).


I remember as a microbiology undergrad having multiple discussions about the definition of life. Is a phage even alive? It is sort of in-between. Is a virus a form of life? Yes, more of the criteria are met.


Anyway, all the life arising from the RNA/DNA building blocks through the great extinctions remind me of blocks being allowed to stack based on contingency and environment in different ways. Who knows how they might stack again and what kind of interesting lifeforms would result if it were to start again.


I wouldn't say phages are overlords, but more the residual semi-life seed blocks that can "construct" into all kinds of block configurations.

I'm glad we got the chance to be one of them.


Biology is indeed the greatest show on Earth.

"I love when biology and metaphysics have sex and create babies. You end up with the mules of the science communities. Capable of carrying a ton of conversation but in the end unable to propagate themselves."--Jacob

I love this!

Six extinctions and then Jesus returns?