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Posted by: AnonStar1 ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 11:10PM

Hello everyone,

There were so many beautiful, insightful responses to that question about if 25 years is a good run. I've been reading them and thinking about them today and you offered a lot of new perspectives that I never really considered. It's good to hear from a wide variety of people in different stages in their own lives. So, thank you, thank you.

I was having a bit of a breakdown on Sunday when I asked. I'm 25, but the more I think about life, the scarier it is. I'm still going to church and staying quiet about my lack of belief (which completely crushed me a few years ago when I had my faith crisis and I haven't fully recovered). I'm also transgender/bisexual (closeted) and I know there's no future where I can go through a medical transition and be accepted by my friends and family. The shunning would be unbearable, so I've decided to just stay as I am. I'll probably live alone.

It's been hard to watch everyone around me graduate, get married, and have kids. I failed college, I'm terrified of relationships after seeing so many fall apart in my own family, and I have health problems that would make it hard for me to have kids (so, I'm pretty much useless in the church).

I don't like to angst about my problems. I'd rather be out there helping people and finding joy, but it's hard. The closer I get to 30, the more I keep asking myself what's the point. I could potentially have 50+ more years of this.

And so, I was thinking about that and realizing that I'm 25 and I got to experience a full childhood, adolescence, and several years of adulthood. If I checked out, I feel like it wouldn't be cut short because I don't have much else, if that makes any sense.

Sorry for the rambling, I just really needed to vent. This community has helped me a lot. I wouldn't have stayed sane during my faith crisis if it wasn't for the ex-Mo people.

Thanks again for your heartfelt responses.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 11:27PM

There is a strong likelihood that there is someone out there who would benefit from your help.

Whomever that person is or those people are, what's on your resumé is not going to be a factor, just what's in your heart.

One thing that I've realized as I've gotten older is that more people than I initially thought are willing, to one degree or another, to offer help.

If you're in SoCal and you want some laughs courtesy of a 74-year-old Mexican (looking) nice guy, email me.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 12:03AM

What’s the point? Let Bill Hicks explain:

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 12:21AM

AnonStar1 Wrote:

> I'm 25, but the more I think about life,
> the scarier it is.

That might be the so-called problem?

Life is not supposed to be serious.

At All.

That's one of the Jedi mind tricks of religion, be it Mormon or some other cage.

It's a game.

You just don't know the rules yet and don't have your bearings. So, you are afraid of what you don't know how to play.

You don't 'find joy', you are joy.


But you would say, 'I try! It's so hard!'

Again, taking it seriously.

You would say, 'But it IS serious! It is MY LIFE!'


There ya go!


To ruin as you see fit (quoting the genius Morrissey)

But truly to do whatever you want.

But! But! But!

Everyone else says/does/fails/succeeds/expects/etc.!!!


But nooooo, you say! You have to 'recover' and you're 'useless' and 'it's so hard' and 'crisis' and would be 'unbearable' and 'crushed' and 'no future' and 'scarier' and, and, and...

Learn how to play the game better than anyone else you are observing. If their relationships failed, who cares?! Why would you ever define you by someone else?


Look at your language: who wouldn't feel hopeless with that self talk?

Have we all been there? I think we all have. But you just don't have the tools yet and you could easily look back even a week from today and say, 'OMG! I thought life was this MAJOR DEAL and SO SERIOUS and really, it's whatever I make it up to be!'

I'm not the first to say it, but the pursuit happiness or 'finding joy' or other embroidered and embossed bs in modern society is really as much of a trick as religion is.

I wish you the best!

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 01:49AM

Here is what I would do if I were in your position....

If you want to keep your family connections intact, you need to build a parallel life which your family doesn't know about.

Since this is an exmo board, let's say I lived somewhere in the Salt Lake City area.

I would Google: LGBT organizations, Salt Lake City, Utah

In order to write this post, I just did this, and there are (in the SLC area) many different organizations, of many different types, where you can show up for "whatever" (a meeting, a film showing, a concert, a meet-up)....and if you went to just one event per week, I can pretty much guarantee that, this time next year, you would have created a whole network of new friends who understand.

Some of them would be casual friends and acquaintances, some of them would be on the way to becoming fairly deep friends--and most all of them would be people you can "ride with" to the next major, positive, turning points in your life.

Wherever you live, take advantage of this opportunity to construct, and to reconstruct, your life and your developing outlook.

It can all start with a single Google search (regardless of where you live).

I have done "this" (fairly close to this) in my life (starting when I was in my twenties, too), and it WORKED. It set me up for all of the rest of my life (and I have had a pretty good life ever since).

It can work for you, too.

I think you are at a "chrysalis point" in your life: You, as a former [metaphorical] caterpillar, are shedding your outworn chrysalis because it no longer "fits"--and you are now in the process of becoming aware that, unbeknownst to you, what you have now become is a "butterfly."

It is now time for you to fly.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2019 01:52AM by Tevai.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 05:31AM

I agree with Tevai. Most college students who move away from home set up a parallel life to one degree or another. You start to establish who you are independent of your birth family. I would move to a LGBTQ-friendly place. If you are in the Moridor, Salt Lake City would work. Or there are lots of other places as well.

If it's any comfort, my 20s sucked. The media would have you believe that all 20-somethings are out there having a great time. But that was not true for me, and I imagine for many others as well.

You are trying to figure out who you are.

You are trying to figure out where you're going, often experiencing poverty along the way. Please don't let this particular life stage get you down. It gets better as you get older. Much better!

Move to a LGBTQ-friendly place, make new friends, and try to figure out a career path (poverty gets old after a while.) Don't worry about your family so much for now. Please let us know how things proceed. We're here for you.

Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2019 05:34AM by summer.

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Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 09:34PM

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Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 09:23PM

I did ask what the purpose of the original question was, and got no answer. It sounded suspiciously like a justification for a death wish, which is why I wanted the OP to spit that out instead of dancing around the topic. If you are thinking of killing yourself, don't!

A wise person once said we live half our lives by the time we are 16. I know what is meant by that, but it's not a good guide to the future. Life is never going to be a total paradise, but it needn't be hell either. I strongly recommend you take up something creative if you haven't already - painting, music, writing etc. It sounds like you are stuck in a rut. Getting into those things can at least get you out of there. I also recommend watching for self-pity, because it won't make your situation better, but it will make you unhappier.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 09:44PM

My dear AnonStar1--

You are still brainwashed! In other words, you are still under the evil spell of Mormonism, and you are victimizing yourself by some wrong thinking! Lies, and bad advice, can be corrected, and the process can be fun, actually. Also fun, is making even small changes. Wrong ideas, that you were taught as a child, does not make your life "wrong."

There's nothing "wrong" with you!

Caramel Dreams is right, about your self-talk. I'll try to illustrate this. This doesn't mean I don't understand your confusion and despair at this point. I was once suicidal, myself.

First of all, your being "bisexual" has little to do with religion, in general. You were just born that way. You mentioned a "medical transition", so maybe you are a male in a woman's body, or a female in a man's body, which is different than being bi. You will find your own way through this. Your sexuality is personal and private. Please no not ever talk about this to your bishop or any other Mormon leader. You might want to go to a good, not-Mormon therapist. I highly recommend therapy, for everything! For dealing with your sexual identity, for leaving your lifetime religion, for coping with your depression, for improving your family relationships, even a few visits to a licensed therapist can help you!

You write that you haven't "fully recovered." Leaving Mormonism has been traumatic for most of us. You say that you haven't fully recovered. Be patient with yourself. Many of us here on RFM have been out for 7,10, even 20 years, and we haven't fully recovered. We like to think we have improved, and are more normal now. This is what RFM is for. Most of us who still are upset by the Mormon cult have loved ones who are still Mormons, so the cult still effects our life, through our families. Some of us have marriages or careers effected by the cult. I'm dealing with schools and community politics, dominated by Mormons, and also, forever, with women's rights issues.

It is NOT--I repeat NOT--a "faith crisis"! That is a term that the Mormons made up to make it seem like it is OUR FAULT that we leave their cult.

I don't know your details, but probably you found out the truth--that it is a hoax perpetrated by a con-man, to scam money off of people. JS also used this "religion" to perpetuate polygamy. The Mormon church is and was rotten and corrupt, from the beginning, and you found out about their lies and secrets. Good for you! Maybe, like my own children, you didn't like being bullied and harassed, and made to feel like YOU didn't fit in, socially. The Mormon leaders actually kicked and hit my children, and the bishop's son tried to molest my little girl, on a church campout. There here are so many good reasons that so many good people leave that cult, every day. This has nothing to do with your worth as a human being.

The Mormons and their prophets accuse those who leave as "having a faith crisis" or to quote Thomas Monson, "are offended, lazy, and wanting to sin." We are accused of "following Satan." We are bound for outer darkness, and the Mormons shun us to put us there, and make us feel so terrible that we might come back to church. No one feels good, being treated so cruelly. I'm sorry for you, and for all of us, who have had to endure this. But the stories here on RFM are mostly success stories!

We here on RFM--and the rest of the world--would view you as being strong, intelligent, a seeker of Truth, and brave.

Much of your unhappiness comes from living a lie. I'm not talking about hiding your sexuality (sex is private) but hiding your dis-belief, especially from your family, when the cult is their whole life. Many posters here on RFM have done this, and it can be done.

You wrote: "The shunning would be unbearable." There has been a lot of writing here on RFM about shunning. It might help for you to read some of it. Shunning hurts, at first. It made me cry, at first. I lost all of my Mormon friends in the ward, and we had lived here for 30 years. Some of us have lost spouses and even parents to shunning. My in-laws completely dis-owned and dis-inherited us, and our children, when we resigned. But, the children and grandchildren who stayed under their influence, and in that weird lifestyle came to a very bad end. We were the lucky ones, to get out. You never know, everyone's different, and maybe your family will accept you as an ex-mormon.

The shunning behavior eventually made me understand that the Mormon neighbors were never really my "true friends," in the first place. I actually didn't enjoy being around them at all, as their arrogance, prejudice, and negativity depressed me. They used my teaching and organ skills, and that was all. I was not gay, but I was DIVORCED, which was bad, and I was a mother who worked outside the home, which was also bad. The Mormons will always find something to criticize and judge in you.

Mormonism is notorious for making you feel bad about yourself! This low self-esteem is difficult to overcome.

You wrote: "I failed college....I'm terrified of relationships....I'M pretty much useless in the church." I had exactly these same thoughts, plus, "I'm failing as a mother, and in my career, etc." I thought I would be "less than", for the rest of my life. NOT SO! After I left the cult, I went on with my life, the best way I knew how. My work colleagues, children, clients, and true old non-Mormon friends were NOT judging me and NOT shunning me. The reality was, that I was really just fine!

So are you! Look deeper into your self-judgments. What do you mean by "I failed college." Were you sick? Were you not inspired or motivated? Maybe your interests are elsewhere. I did not do well at BYU, because I was not happy there--something was off--the religion classes, the dress codes, being mugged and robbed on campus, the overcrowded boring classes--those things bothered me! I almost quit, but, instead transferred to the U of Utah, got straight A's, and completed graduate school.

Do not take ALL the blame for everything; however, you are right to take some responsibility, like you are doing in your post, because realistic attitude makes it possible for you to change things. I see knowledge, problem-solving, and happiness in your future!

You wrote: "I'll probably live alone." If you don't want to, then don't live by yourself! Are you going to punish yourself for the rest of your life? You have done nothing wrong, except you have discovered the Truth, and are figuring out how to deal with it.

What is "Living alone?" You don't have to have sex with everyone you live with or are friends with. You can advertise for roommates, or life with one of your siblings. I have lived "alone" for 30 years, if "alone" means being not married. I hated marriage, and am happier than most married people I know. When I lived totally alone in my house, with my dog and cat, for 5 years, I loved the solitude and freedom. It isn't all that bad. Now, I live with a family with noisy little children, ages 1-11, and I love it. It's all good. Happiness is what you make of it.

You wrote: "I will stay as I am." There's nothing wrong with that, either. You seem like a very cool person! You can live within visiting distance of your parents, but you don't have to be in the same ward, and in our Free Country, you are free to worship any way you please. If people ask why you aren't married, you don't need to explain. Like you said, having children is a Mormon obligation. The rest of the world is leaning toward slowing the population growth. A lower percentage of people are getting married, and they're getting married older. The Mormon way isn't the only way to live.

I wish you well on your path of breaking free of that confining cult, and thinking on your own.

Try another college. Older students do much better. If you like your job, keep it. If you like living at home, stay, and be that cool Uncle or Aunt.

There are so many choices you can make! Check them out!

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 12:08AM

were thinking.

I agree with everyone here.

We all support you being whoever you are. I agree with living a parallel life. Even my kids don't experience my parallel life as they are only part of the life I live now in terms of I do have a boyfriend, but he didn't happen "back" into my life until I was 47. If you read the board, you will know that my "husband" is gay. I'm still married, but not a couple, just friends. I was totally broke, raising twins, working 2 jobs, OVERWEIGHT and my life sucked. But I kept moving. My 50s were better than my life from 35 on up. Or even 25 on up. Trying to figure out gay with mormonism and it's insanity. Somehow we made it here.

I posted a picture on fb of the table at my daughter's wedding. First, there was me, then my ex's old boyfriend, then my boyfriend, then my son, and then my ex sitting at a table together. We all get along. WHO KNEW?

Life has been much better in my 50s and now my 60s. Don't ever say "never." There are still dreams to be had at this age. I'm one who has often thought of suicide. I even thought of taking my kids with me for a time. I didn't tell anyone. Later when I did tell my sister, she was very upset. I've lived with suicidal ideation for a long time. I did report your post out of fear of what you were talking about as I recognized it. I'm glad I stuck around. I'm glad I didn't take my kids with me. How horrible would that have been to do to everyone including them and myself??? It has been worth it to stick around. Good days and bad days. For me, level days are the best. That is all I ask for--level.

If you need us, we are here. I live in Hyrum, Utah, if you are in this area. My ex lives here, too. He has a group he hangs out with. There are a lot more bisexuals, transgenders, gays, lesbians, and I can't think of the rest right now, who you are not aware of. Did you go to gay pride day? I worked with a transgender at Sam's Club. She was making the medical transition from male to female.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2019 12:11AM by cl2.

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