Doesn't have a lot of good things to say about the religion she inherited.

https://youtu.be/JKfLZ0uLoyg

(Starting at 0:53 mark)

Some guy tries to defend Mormons by saying how much good they do and how solid their families are. She calls bullshit on the guy, although my criticism would have been a whole lot more scathing.

Its an abusive white supremacist patriarchal Doomsday CULT that forces you to sing the praises of a GD pedophile.

What would be your main criticism if you were given that platform?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2019 07:48PM by schrodingerscat.

I know a devout Mormon man who destroyed his sons with abuse and deprivation, which divided his family into angry factions. He was buried with full Mormon honors. His obituary praised him for callings and service.

Call it what you want, I call it shit.

I think being mormon isn't all that bad for kids with non-pedophilic, rich, doting, atheist parents.

But once you hit puberty, mormonism should be put back in Santa's bag and returned to the North Pole, for the lost ten tribes to restore and refurbish.

And yes, I recognize that if you have non-pedophilic, rich, doting, atheist parents, you would never be exposed to the mormon church.

So the conclusion is that mormonism is unneeded, unnecessary and should be done away with. It's an 18th-century ornament which has as much use in this century as a seer stone. If I didn't have a daughter and three out of four (YAY!!) of her kids in the church, you would never have seen or heard of me.

Wow, Chelsea doesn't seem to know anything about the religion.

Looks like she has done everything she could to forget. What's your point Wowza?

I didn't see anything in her review of Mormonism that was wrong. She didn't delve into doctrine, which wouldn't have gone well on a comedy show, but what she said seemed perfectly accurate.

What am I missing?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't see anything in her review of Mormonism
> that was wrong. She didn't delve into doctrine,
> which wouldn't have gone well on a comedy show,
> but what she said seemed perfectly accurate.
>
> What am I missing?

Her comments about alcohol are en pointe. Going by the appearance of her skin, she has imbibed frequently.

However, the hell comment is not true. Mormonism isn't much into the whole hell thing. Hell makes even the Telestial Kingdom look good.

Mormons have a belief in second chances which is where necrobaptism comes in.

Jordan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mormonism isn't much into the whole hell thing. Hell makes
> even the Telestial Kingdom look good.

Yeah, but she just kept it generic. I wouldn't want to sit there and try to go into an explanation of all the kingdoms. They would consider being exiled from their Heavenly Father in any way to basically be hell.

Greyfort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jordan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mormonism isn't much into the whole hell thing.
> Hell makes
> > even the Telestial Kingdom look good.
>
> Yeah, but she just kept it generic. I wouldn't
> want to sit there and try to go into an
> explanation of all the kingdoms. They would
> consider being exiled from their Heavenly Father
> in any way to basically be hell.

I agree that an explanation of the degrees of glory would be too lengthy, but I would have gone the other way and talked about some of the rewards of exaltation which are quite different from other churches.

She could use the planet line for one.

> I would have gone
> the other way and talked about some of the rewards
> of exaltation which are quite different from other
> churches.
>
> She could use the planet line for one.

I bet you get invited to a lot of parties.

"Irrelevant."

LOL!

His god-like perspective on all that is Mormon - exmo or no - is very welcome to those struggling to recover from it.

The parties he is attracted to seems to be ones where his opinions can carry the weight of fact.

He's so insecure that he brings in his lumbering wake his own cheer squad. Jordan 1, CanuckExmo, LogicalCanuckExmo, Hwint, the new Jordan: these are his minions and court jesters. If posts by them are ignored, he gets very little positive reaction.

So yes, he only goes to parties where people agree with him--and if he must go elsewhere, he takes along his alter egos so there is always fawning possie.

Mormonism is so patriarchal that the men are leaving and the women are staying

Must be the feminization of men...

I agree with Wowza, Chelsea's criticisms missed the mark. The guy defending the church isn't wrong in saying that the church bears some good fruit but those things can be accomplished without embracing a lie. The main points I would have driven home is that it's foundational claims have all been proven false. I would have mentioned the CES letter and Joseph Smith sending men on missions and pursuing their wives.

Both she and the guy defending "Mormonism" are ill-informed. She's making a generic argument against christianity, not Mormonism. And he's making a generic defense (btw, what "flourishing institutions" have been created by the Mormons?).

Gordon B. Stinky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Both she and the guy defending "Mormonism" are
> ill-informed. She's making a generic argument
> against christianity, not Mormonism. And he's
> making a generic defense (btw, what "flourishing
> institutions" have been created by the Mormons?).

She moans about being made not to drink alcohol. That is actually one of the better features of Mormonism given the crime and violence caused by alcohol abuse. You can tell she is a heavy drinker by the trademark leathery skin that some of them develop - I've seen it many times.

"Unless you accept Jesus Christ in the Mormon religion, you go to Hell"

Clearly she has forgotten about the Degrees of Glory. Hell is not a big thing in Mormonism.

She also can't make up her mind up whether she's Mormon or a Jewess.

Honestly on both these scores, very poor stuff. I see better on this forum. Flourishing institutions though? Maybe not.

Its no secret that Chelsea is a heavy drinker. If you know anything about her, she pretty much advertises it.

cftexan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its no secret that Chelsea is a heavy drinker. If
> you know anything about her, she pretty much
> advertises it.

I know nothing about the woman, but her face screams "heavy drinker" to me. I've known a few in my time who eded up looking like that. The skin turns a kind of leathery tan.

She is a horrible, horrible person. I love her because at least she owns up to it.

Leathery tan skin is not indicative of heavy drinking. You really don't need to weigh in on everything, especially the things you know nothing about.

Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leathery tan skin is not indicative of heavy
> drinking. You really don't need to weigh in on
> everything, especially the things you know nothing
> about.

Thanks for that Aaron. It is just a coincidence that so many women who drink heavily look like that then. I spotted it before she even talked about alcohol. For some reason it affects women more that way than men. I've seen it so many times I've lost count. Including on women who ended up dying from drinking.

Wouldn't know her from Eve as a personality, but she has the look of a heavy drinker. The only other thing I would have put that down to would be overexposure to UV.

Jordan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aaron Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Leathery tan skin is not indicative of heavy
> > drinking. You really don't need to weigh in on
> > everything, especially the things you know
> nothing
> > about.
>
> Thanks for that Aaron. It is just a coincidence
> that so many women who drink heavily look like
> that then. I spotted it before she even talked
> about alcohol. For some reason it affects women
> more that way than men. I've seen it so many times
> I've lost count. Including on women who ended up
> dying from drinking.
>
> Wouldn't know her from Eve as a personality, but
> she has the look of a heavy drinker. The only
> other thing I would have put that down to would be
> overexposure to UV.

Lemme guess, incel?

Erm, no. Apart from the fact I'm in the wrong generation for that crap, I've also been in a stable relationship for several years. There is no such thing as an "incel" - if they are so desperate for sex, there are ways and means that they could get it, but that doesn't mean they are appropriate.

Believe it or not, it is useful to be able to tell if someone has a drink problem, not only for the purposes of dating, but also when interviewing prospective employees. There are certain tell tale signs. It can save a lot of trouble further down the line. I'm well aware some people are recovering alcoholics, but from what she says, Chelsea Handler shows no sign of being one.

Jordan, I come from a long line of at least 6 generations of alcoholics, including women and a Church of England Bishop whose brother was the Archbishop of Canterbury...) and I'm a (now) "non-practising" alcoholic myself.

In my time I've known a lot of alcoholics of both sexes and I've never seen any evidence of what you claim. Complexions vary, but not because of alcohol use. There are many signs that point to alcoholism, but complexion is not generally considered one of them. Most of them are behavioural.

You are talking nonsense.

Tom in Paris

You tell him Tom! He sees it like a Mormon would - modern day lepers.

> You can tell she is a heavy drinker
> by the trademark leathery skin that some of them
> develop - I've seen it many times.

Why do you feel the need to comment on the physical appearance of women whom you have never met?



--------------
> She also can't make up her mind up whether she's
> Mormon or a Jewess.


Do you realize that "Jewess" is a word closely associated with anti-semites? If you did, would that bother you?

"Do you realize that "Jewess" is a word closely associated with anti-semites? If you did, would that bother you?"

Jew is also "a word closely associated with anti-Semites" as well, but that doesn't make it specifically an anti-Jewish word. Jewess just means a female Jew. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't be so stupid...

Acts 24:24
"And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ."

"Why do you feel the need to comment on the physical appearance of women whom you have never met?"

Because in this case it's relevant.

Look it up, moron. You will find that Jewish people are extremely sensitive to gentiles using the word "Jewess." If you had a modicum of class, you would avoid that unnecessarily slight. But as with all your throw-away clauses about politics, you have shown no respect for the feelings of ethnic minorities nor to the need for clear and responsible statements of politics.

All these slurs, these oblique attacks on others: they are what defines a real jerk. Your refusal, upon correction, to speak more thoughtfully underscores what everyone has already inferred of your character.

Good assessment.

I might add that he seems to be able to criticize Mormonism but not identify much with those who have left it let alone help them in their recovery from it.

Yeah, so what if she is a heavy drinker?

Even if she isn't, she could have rosacea or some other skin condition. You shouldn't make comments on other people's appearances.

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, so what if she is a heavy drinker?
>
> Even if she isn't, she could have rosacea or some
> other skin condition.

Well, that would be a coincidence. I happen to have two acquaintances who rosacea and neither of them look like that.

"At 21, Handler decided to pursue stand-up comedy after telling her story about driving under the influence to a class of other offenders, who found it funny."

And the one thing she singles out about Mormonism other than Hell (somewhat inaccurately) is not being able to drink. It would seem she has been drinking heavily since the early 1990s (since she was born in 1975).

> You shouldn't make comments
> on other people's appearances.

Is this the latest thing?

"No, doctor, we can't diagnose this patient, to do so would be judgemental."

Have you ever heard the expression "forewarned is forearmed"? It is useful to be able to read physical symptoms sometimes.

I watched the video and I didn't think her skin looked that bad.

I'm guessing you don't have any particular need to find fault with everyone with whom you you come into contact or who comes up in conversation. I speculate that this would be a good practice in aid of one's self image.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm guessing you don't have any particular need to
> find fault with everyone with whom you you come
> into contact

So Mrs Lot, I mean Elderolddog, if you were interviewing a number of people for a job in the airline industry and there was a choice between someone with the tell tale signs of alcoholism, and another without them, which one would you choose?

Be honest with yourself!

I've had to interview people for jobs (not anything as dramatic), but you have to know.

Sometimes it's useful to know these things. I am friendly with people who have varying relationships with alcoholism, but if someone does have a serious drink problem, it's useful to know.

This is another case where do-gooding is actually harmful. Unless someone acknowledges that they are an addict, they cannot leave that addiction. If you remain MEALY-MOUTHED, and do not tell them, you may end up letting them kill themselves.

Um... one's skin condition alone is not an indicator of alcoholism. I would hope that if you were interviewing someone for a job and were concerned about their drinking habits, you would conduct a more conclusive examination than simply assuming they're an alcoholic due to the condition of their skin.

As you can see from this Web MD article, many people with rosacea get accused of being alcoholics when they aren't.

https://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/news/20040218/link-between-rosacea-alcohol#1

Yes, drinking can make rosacea worse, but so can stress, avocados, and even exercise.

From the article:

"It is important that the public does not wrongly and unfairly confuse the appearance of rosacea with heavy drinking," says Diane Thiboutot, MD, of the Penn State Milton S. Hershey Medical Center. "At the same time, in managing the disorder, alcohol should be recognized as among the many factors that can trigger or aggravate the condition."

Other triggers include some 20 different foods, including avocado, cheese, and eggplant; drinks such as coffee, tea, and hot cider; skin-care products; and even exercise.

And... unless you're their doctor or a loved one, I don't see how it's any of your business, anyway.

Taken on its own it might be insufficient, but taken together with her comments on alcohol, and being imprisoned for DUI at twenty one, it is an obvious conclusion.

She doesn't have anything resembling rosacea.

I can't tell that she has leathery skin, either. *shrug*

At least not in that video.

> "She doesn't have anything resembling rosacea."

Somehow, I don't trust your judgement on being able to discern this one way or another. Especially since it appears in so many different ways depending on all kinds of factors.

Perhaps you could stop judging people on their appearance altogether. It would save from being proven wrong on so many occasions. It would certainly be a step in how often you're associated with, well, bigoted views.

"unless you're their doctor or a loved one, I don't see how it's any of your business, anyway."

Or if you're an interviewer/employer, lover, business partner, tenant, franchiser, passenger, in law enforcement, a car driver, a landlord and a hundred other situations

If someone's high functioning they may be able to get away with it, but this phase doesn't last forever.

The same can be said for finding out if someone is an asshole. I bet people pick that up about you all the time.

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The same can be said for finding out if someone is
> an asshole. I bet people pick that up about you
> all the time.

Takes one to know one, right?

Totally subjective opinion, whereas alcoholism is a recognized medical condition with physical symptoms.

So tell me HONESTLY. If you got in a light aircraft, and the pilot stank of drink and was unsteady on their feet, would you allow them to fly off with you? Really? Or would that be too judgemental?

Don't dodge the question this time...

What a stupid question. Only someone with some kind of teetotalling bias would pose it.

I wouldn't get in a car with friends after drinking with no DD.

Alcoholism isn't drunk plane driving or other driving...

If you knew about it, you would know people groom codependent people and coping behaviors similar to many addictive behaviors.

People have biological predispositions to it such as myself.

"Teetotalling bias"

There is a big difference between someone who occasionally goes to bars and someone who has spent time behind bars, as Ms Handler has for driving while drunk. That is a serious offense. Thousands of people have ended up dead because of it.

"If you knew about it, you would know people groom codependent people and coping behaviors similar to many addictive behaviors."

I'm well aware of that. In her case, it would have been good if she'd stayed off drink as it has clearly not been a friend of hers. Yet she jokes about it, to try and put a friendly face on something which has been an issue for her.

It may well be a genetic thing in her mother's family which is maybe why she joined the church.

I have rosacea, I also don't drink alcohol. Sometimes my rosacea acts up and my complexion is, well, not what I'd prefer to have, but I have to live with it and I do the best I can to treat it.

Jordan seems to think that it's OK to judge me based on my complexion, he'd be wrong, but he doesn't seem to care. As far as he's concerned, it would be totally find to deny me a job based on my appearance alone.

This, again, is why I agree that he and those like him should be allowed to speak his mind as often as possible so people know whom to avoid.

Freedom of Speech is on our side.

Exactly, his constant complaints that people are trying to censor him are ludicrous. Why wouldn't we want him to tell us exactly who he is. And of course, he shows repeatedly exactly who and what he is.

They have a host of unpaid staff working for them, and low paid scriptwriters to come up with unfunny material. It really isn't a surprise when something comes out about them.

Talk about typecast! Remember in the 80's? I think Maher played the creepy guy on every failed sitcom and pilot episode produced in that decade. ;)

Gordon B. Stinky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Talk about typecast! Remember in the 80's? I think
> Maher played the creepy guy on every failed sitcom
> and pilot episode produced in that decade. ;)

All those fake grins and sharp suits. We could almost be back in church, except the jokes are bluer.

Just curious about the "YouTube" link you referenced. Usually the dot is after the youtube (youtube.com/) and not between the "u" and "b" as in the link you provided: youtu.be. Also, "real" youtube web addresses are usually followed by "watch": youtube.com/watch?v

Your link:
https://youtu.be/JKfLZ0uLoyg

Youtube link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_j7NB7ZzOk

heartbroken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just curious about the "YouTube" link you
> referenced. Usually the dot is after the youtube
> (youtube.com/) and not between the "u" and "b" as
> in the link you provided: youtu.be. Also, "real"
> youtube web addresses are usually followed by
> "watch": youtube.com/watch?v
>
> Your link:
> https://youtu.be/JKfLZ0uLoyg
>
> Youtube link
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_j7NB7ZzOk
I just copied the link Youtube supplied. Didn't even notice the punctuation.
What does it matter?

This is from Wikipedia, which I do not trust, but which will have to do for now.

"Handler was born in Livingston, New Jersey, the youngest of six children of Rita (née Stoecker), a homemaker, and Seymour Handler, a used car dealer.[7][8][9] Her American father is Ashkenazi Jewish; her German-born mother, who came to the United States in 1958, was a Mormon.[7][10] Her mother was diagnosed with breast cancer in 1989,[11] and battled the disease for over 15 years before dying of it in 2006.[12] Handler was raised in Reform Judaism and had a Bat Mitzvah ceremony.[13][14][15][16] She summered in Martha's Vineyard, where her parents owned a house.[17]"

I looked up this woman. I had never heard of her before. I presumed she had married into Judaism, seems not...

Several key points here -

* She does not qualify as a Jew under most traditions since her mother was not a Jewess.
* It sounds as if she was mainly raised Jewish despite coming throigh her father. And her mother allowed her to be.
* She was raised in Reform Judaism which is the very "light" and middle class version. The Anglicanism of Judaism perhaps.
* If she was bi-religious (if there is such a term), Mormonism appears to have been no. 2.
* She had a Bat Mitzvah (Bar Mitzvah for girls), but no mention of baptism.
* Her Mormon background is a peripheral one.

Of course, being a comedienne, Jewish schtick is better than Mormon schtick. Jewish humor is a lot more mainstream, and there are some very funny Jewish comedians out there. So it would pay to play up her Jewish side, and play down her Mormon side.

So basically she followed her Dad's Jewish traditions and when her Mom tried to also teach her about Mormonism, she thought it was a silly religion and brushed her off.

Greyfort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So basically she followed her Dad's Jewish
> traditions and when her Mom tried to also teach
> her about Mormonism, she thought it was a silly
> religion and brushed her off.

It sounds very like it. She had a bat mitzvah at 13, and was imprisoned for DUI at 21. From what little I can find out, it sounds as if she was never a standard TBM and never held a TR. Nothing to say whether she was baptized at all. I suspect her affiliation was fleeting. The Bat Mitzvah would have involved learning to read Hebrew, but perhaps that is not a big thing because in reform Judaism, I'm not even even sure they have to read it in Hebrew script.

Can anyone remember a case in which Jordan criticized a man's physical appearance? How about a case in which Jordan used a man's appearance to criticize that man's personal habits?

Of course not.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can anyone remember a case in which Jordan
> criticized a man's physical appearance? How about
> a case in which Jordan used a man's appearance to
> criticize that man's personal habits?

Good grief - did you note see the reply TO THIS VERY THREAD where I say that Bill Maher himself looks creepy? And other talk show hosts with "all those fake grins and sharp suits"? Talk about being hoisted by your own petard.

I have also criticized Alex Jones as using his physical presence (polite phrase for obesity) to bully, and also Trevor Noah. Both of these posts were deleted.

And yet you didn't tie your criticism of their appearance to their health, sobriety and character--which was my point.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And yet you didn't tie your criticism of their
> appearance to their health, sobriety and
> character--which was my point.

"I have also criticized Alex Jones as using his physical presence (polite phrase for obesity) to bully"

Oh dear...

I hear he dresses nice.

I have to keep up my sock puppetry.