As a victim of childhood abuse I would like the parties involved like The BSA, The LDS Church, my abuser to acknowledge that they did something wrong.

It will never happen.

So when I read this non-apology I wondered if it would have killed him to just apologize for what he did.

" “It’s clear that any kind of apology I can make is meaningless at this point,” Van Wagenen said. “So I am not even going to attempt one. I want you all to know I feel the consequences of what I’ve done. I feel them deeply.” "
https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/sundance-co-founder-sterling-van-wagenen-sentenced-for-child-sex-abuse/ar-AADMl1T

My father molested my adopted sisters and he never apologized or even acknowledged to me and a few siblings I spoke to that he did it and was sorry for it.

I don't know if Mormonism teaches this - non-apologetic acknowledgement and non-acknowledgement - but as a victim it hurts to see this behavior.

As a father I've had conflicts with my kids and wife over my own refusal to apologize. Where I feel I haven't done something worth apologizing I'm adamant about not apologizing. Often, my family wanted me to acknowledge that I hurt their feelings. It could have just been how I presented myself and not the content of what I was saying.

I know that institutionally people seem to think apology is acknowledgement of wrong doing. Sometimes it isn't but acknowledgement of the hurt caused. So I don't understand how Sterling Van Wagenen can think telling people how he can "feel the consequences" is better than an apology and how it is "meaningless." It sounds like the confession of man more hurt by the "consequences" and the hurt of his victims is "meaningless" to him. The old remorse because he got caught.

And this is what LDS Corp probably thinks as well. Damn the individuals hurt by their actions or lack of action but lick wounds, change policies, and keep paying their lawyers and PR people.

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and say apologies are sometimes empty gestures. They need to prove that they will prevent these issues recurring. Statements, handshaking and even monetary compensation will not have a long term effect.

I would be sorry to see the Scouts disappear. The combination of survival skills, toughness and politeness that they engender is highly desirable in this collapsing society.

Jordan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and say
> apologies are sometimes empty gestures.

With victims they never are. A perp actually admitting wrong doing is huge regardless of their sincerity.

Elder Berry Wrote:
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> Jordan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and say
> > apologies are sometimes empty gestures.
>
> With victims they never are. A perp actually
> admitting wrong doing is huge regardless of their
> sincerity.

The perps rarely do the apologizing though, it's the organization. In a number of cases of abuse I am aware of, the abuser is dead before the allegations go public, so it is left to an org to deal with the poisoned legacy of someone who will never pay. (Unless there is an afterlife.)

Admitting wrong doing is one thing, proving that you will prevent most of it happening again. I say most, since sadly a 100% prevention rate is hard.

This thread is about and for victims and their desires for an apology. Your assessment is not appreciated.

> I would be sorry to see the Scouts
> disappear. The combination of
> survival skills, toughness and
> politeness that they engender is
> highly desirable in this collapsing
> society.


The BSA will hopefully continue on, with the teaching of 'survival skills, toughness, and politeness' remaining in their curriculum.

What is going away is the specter of the Boy Scouts as part of the youth program. And if my scouting experience in the good ol' Las Vegas Second Ward was any gauge, certainly, one had to have a toughness to survive; but survival skills and politeness were not part of what the poor dragooned scoutmasters foisted on us managed to pass along.

Right? Scouting needs to up their ante to previous times if they are going to be the pseudo military outfit they were.

Elder Berry Wrote:
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> Right? Scouting needs to up their ante to previous
> times if they are going to be the pseudo military
> outfit they were.

I think the flag raising and all that is unnecesary. Round my way Scouts have done a lot of good - they help old people, raise money for charity etc, and do a lot to maintain community.

The camping and hiking aspect lends itself to abuse, sadly, but it is one of the better aspects in other respects. I think now, more than ever, children need to see wildlife, natural beauty and so on. It will breed in them an appreciation of the world and the need to preserve nature. I have taken a renewed interest in camping and hiking recently, and I believe more people should share in the happiness it can bring you.

It saddens me a great deal that the BSA has been such a haven for abuse. Even the LDS too. I think the biggest offenders are boarding schools. I have heard some real horror stories coming out of them, and invariably the culprits left quietly and went to eork elsewhere.

Van Wagenen gave a sociopath's response. He's not sorry for what he did; He's sorry he got caught.

I figured but I like hearing what other people judge. It is a benefit to my own doubts.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Van Wagenen gave a sociopath's response. He's not
> sorry for what he did; He's sorry he got caught.

My thoughts exactly, summer.

He doesn't feel the consequences that the victims feel and never will.

The church doesn't apologize. They blame the victims.

Even after all these years just seeing your name makes me :). Do you still have that body in the window seat?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2019 07:38AM by Susan I/S.

Yes, and I'm taking a trip to Panama with it!

Mormons are masters of the nopology.