Sorry, the thread had closed.

"Oh really! Please tell us the languages?

Well now pray tell, from what you said your mom is a believer.

I know there is stuff in the Bible that answers questions like I Isa. 53
I Cor 11

Catch my drift?"

English (King James), Spanish (Reina Valeria) and German (revised Luther Bible).

Thank you for the scriptural references. I don't think I understand the significance of 1 Cor. 11.

My mother never believed in Mormonism, just in the idea of Christ. She never did read the Bible, or do anything in her life to worship, but she considered herself a Christian because of her belief.

I'm not religious in any sense anymore, but I'm allowing her to explore that herself. She knows that if she wants to talk about religion, I'll talk to her about it, or I'll find someone to come talk to her about it. Yesterday we talked about this and she told me that so far she doesn't want any sort of religious message right now.

Also, from another thread, I think you mentioned that I thought you were a dude. Haha! No worries, as far as can reasonably assumed on the internet, I never thought you were a man :)

some of the folks on this board get mad.

Well if she doesn't believe no worries then.

But 1 Cor 11 is about he holy communion and healing and Isa 53 is the back drop, by his stripes we are healed.

anyway that is what I was meaning!

...and they were sick, and you had the power to heal them, and they couldn't see you, and they had no evidence of your existence... would you really wait until they began to pretend that you existed before you'd heal them?

Or would you just heal them?

If you'd wait to heal them, then your love would be conditional.

If you'd just heal them, then your love would be unconditional.

The fact that people are sick proves that your god does not love his children "unconditionally" (if he exists)

UNLESS you propose that sickness is a part of your god's "plan", but you said in that last post that it's not.

Just sayin'...

Kolobian read 1 Cor 11, then please come back and let's discuss

[see now you are going to get the haters out to come to abuse me with their anger]

Look I dont want anyone to be sick! SICKNESS is not part of God's plan, I NEVER said that, that comes from MORMONdom!

I don't want anyone to suffer.

what about the people he healed? healing is the bread of the children, it is their right.

idk what else to say. I am just relearning this stuff and seeing how I missed it because of false Mormon teachings!

So, I've been reading 1 Corinthians 11, and this is what I've learned so far:

1. We should follow men that claim to follow god, instead of following god directly.

2. We should keep "ordinances" even though x-ians say works don't matter?

3. The head of every woman is a man.

4. Men shouldn't cover their heads when praying.

5. Women should.

6. If she doesn't cover herself, shave her head.

7. Men are the glory of god. Women are the glory of men.

8. Women are of men, but men are not of women.

9. Women were created for the benefit of men.

10. Angels give women power to serve men.

11. Men and women should be together, not two men, and not two women.

12. Paul changes his mind on point 8.

13. Ask yourself if women should be able to pray like men or not.

14. Men shouldn't have long hair.

15. Women should, it's a natural covering.

16. Don't ask tough questions or you'll be disfellowshipped from x-ian churches.

17. Coming together makes you worse off.

18. Paul thinks there are divisions in the x-ian church. (Surprise, surprise)

19. Paul thinks there are heresies in the x-ian church. (Surprise, surprise)

20. Paul thinks there shouldn't be sacrament in church.

21. Because some people get drunk and others get too full.

22. Paul thinks people should get drunk and full in their own houses.

23. Paul says jesus told him the night he was betrayed he ate some bread.

24. Then jesus instructed his friends to eat his body.

25. Then jesus told his friends to drink his blood.

26. And every time you do this you will remember jesus' death.

27. Everyone who is "unworthy" is guilty of killing jesus.

28. People should judge themselves.

29. Everyone who is "unworthy" is damning themselves.

30. Because people "unworthily" take the sacrament they get sick. DING DING DING!

31. If you judge yourself god won't judge you.

32. When you're judged you are punished by god.

33. When you get together for sacrament stay awhile, take a load off. Relax...

34. If someone is hungry tell them to eat at home on their own time. I'll figure out the rest when I get there.


Wow, AIC... very enlightening. So peope get ovarian cancer because they took the sacrament "unworthily". This sounds very kolobian to me.

Nope that is not what it says in the original greek!

please stop!

To partake unworthily is to do without discerning that by his stripes we are healed.

Also remember pauls contention is that the people came to the Lords supper drunk, brought there own food, created little cliques of the haves and have nots.

his contention is that these behaviours are not worthy.

the lords supper is about focusing on christ and his healing in so doing we are healed...hence right discernment.

HE IS NOT TALKING ABOUT WORTHININESS he is talking about how we partake...thinking of Christ and believing that he took it all for us and now we are healed, or coming to gorge ourselves and missing the point which is in Christ all is well!

Okay Kolobian you stop, this is not for you, so stop it!

Please don't tell me to stop. This is an open forum and I like discussing these issues with you.

You told me to read 1 Corinthians 11 and then come back and discuss. Here I am. Or, here am I. Whatever.

You never answered my original question:

If you had kids, and they were sick, and you had the power to heal them, and they didn't know you existed, and you chose not to give them any real evidence of your existence, so they had no reason to pretend that you existed, would you heal them or would you not heal them?

It's a simple question: Would you heal your sick children or not? It's yes or no.

I have answered that question so many times, you know my position is no I would not refuse to heal my children nor inflict pain on them!

No-one wishes their children ill!

I also don't believe God does that to me!

If others believe that, well okay. that is their belief!

AIC says:

"Okay Kolobian you stop, this is not for you, so stop it!"

To me, this is very bizarre. You engage, then when things get uncomfortable for you, you command another to disengage? WOW...

that's so...strange...

I don't have the info at my fingertips for all the other "items" mentioned, but regarding "items" 5,6 and 15, at the time Paul was going around telling people off for what they believed, prostitutes wore their hair short. To belabor the point, it seems he was indicating that if one was not a "lady of the evening" as it were, a woman should remain "covered", ie, keep her hair longer, particularly in a place of worship. Since people did not have churches, they would come together in each other's homes.
Mormons and former Mormons expect soft easy answers, because the Mormon church offers soft easy answers.

of submission to God and to MEN.

for his mom.

Or so it seems to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2011 06:31PM by Strykary.

I am more than old enough to be your mother. There is nothing you can teach me. I have been there and seen that and done that. You haven't a clue.
You come across as a know-it-all little bigot.
But, I suppose I should be more patient with you, you are still just a kitten and I was your age once myself...

:)

if wisdom was a function of age I suppose you would be it!

Well then good for you!

Thanks for the tutorial...Bigot huh!

Nice!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2011 06:34PM by AIC.

For the Mormons, I would agree with you. Perhaps JS had a thing for long hair, idk.
Historically, at the time of the Romans in Judea, no.

Bible. I did not get it from the Mormons.
I wish you religionists would bother to read your own scriptures.

Please ignore Kolobian. My intention was not to cause angst or anything like that.

Just to share something that works for some.

Sorry!

Arrgh!

I didn't get angry because I saw that you were trying to comfort either me or my mother. I appreciate that.

Kolobian has asked legit questions. And now crickets ???

when I've asked a legitimate question about her "more correct" interpretation of scripture.
No matter which language you read it in, there is some nasty stuff in the Bible, and those who believe it is the Word of God and God's laws must believe that God is a monster.

Ok then God is a monster to you.

That is your position, stick to it.

Let me alone, I offered solace and comfort to someone whose mother is dying. Really?

You are here arguing about most correct translations, why don't you tell SNB something while he goes through this difficult time?

You think by saying God is a monster then you are right?

gosh! What about SNB's mother, what about the whole thread you missed that brought him and I here and we talk?

If you believe in the Bible, then it's YOUR god who is the monster.
I criticized the Bible for not having any laws against rape, for considering women to be property.
You had the gall to call me Eurocentric.
Apparently you think that Human Rights is a Eurocentric concept.
Actually that's a bit of a complement to Europeans, but you really don't make any sense.
Your Bible portrays a monstrous god that views 1/2 the human race as chattel. That's YOUR god, not mine.

Okee dokee!

have at it with your human rights, because right now it is very evident how much you care about humans...

I started this thread only a few hours ago, and since then there has been five replies AIC, and four messages from her. Since you started 30 days ago, you have only posted 40 times.

So, if we look at rate of posts we see that:

dane - 0.055 posts per hour.
AIC - 4 posts per hour.

I would say that you are covered in crickets.

I think the water got a little hot for her liking.
Susan

I actually do have a life and just got back!

As usual people jump on things without understanding context.

This post and discussion was started by SNB for his mother and he chose to speak to me!

Now you guys want to jump on here to obfuscate things and be self-centered.

how come the poster understood the intent? Even tho he rejected, it and we are cool...? Really?

I think that when people with a null faith are in a position to offer some hope to those who are suffering, then those who have faith and hope in something beyond their own works and self-importance will perhaps be more willing to take a step back and allow room.
But it seems that those with a null faith simply want to criticize that faith and those who have it. If anyone has questions of the bible and what x-tians believe, pastors, priests and counselors are the people to hit up for explanations. If one asked a newly-married couple what the key was to a long-lasting solid marriage, I'd image the answers would be very different from those by couples who have been together for 50+ years. Which would be more helpful?
What I see happening is bashing rather than research.

that a "null faith"? How arrogant can you get.

Dear BadGirl, I am very sorry if what I said came across as arrogant. I absolutely do not mean that faith in another way is a null faith. I would not be critical of those who are Buddhist, Baptist, Baha'i or any other faith.
I was referring to athiest beliefs. Atheism is the belief that no dieties exist, from which I generate the word "null" meaning "nothing" or "non-existant". Please see the American Atheists website for further info.
Again, this was in no way meant to be arrogant.

people use the term "unbelievers" to invalidate anyone who doesn't share their same beliefs or faith.

If you mean "atheists", you should just SAY "atheists".

For what it's worth, I didn't say "unbelievers". I don't mean "unbelievers".
Athiests believe in themselves; that's not unbelief, that's just not a belief in a diety.

I am an atheist and I have no "beliefs."

I'm not superstitious.

To say that atheists believe in themselves is way of marginalizing something that threatens your bronze-age world view. You shouldn't be so frightened.

I'm an atheist and I eat babies*!


*Sugar Babies

And +100 million on the not being superstitious. Don't believe in ghosts, aliens, Bigfoot, or gods.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2011 07:17PM by lostinutah.

So, AIC is a TBM???

believe cause others don't and so that is the issue.

Never mind that the OP doesn't care!