"When Josh Harris was 21, he wrote one of those books that becomes not just a bestseller but a movement. *I Kissed Dating Goodbye* was an abstinence manifesto and courtship manual that convinced a generation of conservative Christian teenagers that avoiding premarital sex was more than a good idea or even God’s plan—it was a holy calling and a prerequisite to a good marriage. The book went on to sell more than a million copies. Josh got married at 23; by then, he was a celebrity in evangelical circles. On Thursday, he and his wife, Shannon, announced they are separating after 19 years of marriage."


https://slate.com/human-interest/2019/07/josh-harris-shannon-separation-marriage-i-kissed-dating-goodbye.html?via=homepage_recirc_engaged

Sometimes, when we think we have all the answers, life says, "Mmmmm, not so fast, pal."

Thank you for this post. I had not heard the term exvangelical before. I'm guessing that people using it match my experience coming out of a fundie christian church -- many things similar to mormon but some things different.

I'm guessing that many of you will find similarities with this group as well.

I've been lucky in that my family "accepts" me -- of course while they continue to pray that I will come to my senses. The piece my mom hangs onto is that they are part of the "once saved, always saved" group and since I did that routine when I was 11, I'm covered... (gotta love the logic)


https://religionandpolitics.org/2019/04/09/the-rise-of-exvangelical/

Hola and welcome, Never Mo!

It seems that mormonism wanted some of that "once saved - always saved" magic, so we came up with The Second Anointing, which guarantees ghawdhood!

It also goes one better than all the other religions, as evidenced from this record of an early Second Anointing:

"...And thou shalt have power to redeem thy progenitors, and thou shalt have power over thy posterity and shall save all of them and bring them into thy kingdom."
http://www.ldsendowment.org/kimball.html


So once you get the 2nd 'nointing, you can rescue your progenitors, along with your posterity.

But the question arises... How many generations in each direction can be dragged up to heaven? You can save your parents, that's 2, their parents, that's 4 more, then 8 more, then 16 more... See where I'm going with that? When you reach back to the 25th earlier generation, that's 45,661,632 human beings...for that generation. The total number of 'saved' people, counting you and your spouse (married couples only!) and back 25 generations, is 299,623,162.

And your progeny!! In 25 generations, depending on fecundity, you could get into the billions, even trillions, in 25 generations, because for every descendant you save, you have to add his or her spouse. Everybody gets to bring a spouse! But which one?


Yeah, Joseph Smith had it all planned out.

OK, got me there -- the mormon trick to "save" everyone is much better than the evangelical one that only works on an individual at a time. :)

Thanks for the welcome - I've been (mostly) lurking here for quite a while. It is the best place I've found to be among people who "get" the whole cultural impact of a birth-religion. I grew up going to church every single time the doors were open - Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night plus VBS in the summer plus whatever special programs were there.

My folks were always leaders - whether deacon*, teacher, or just super volunteer. (Deacons in the evangelical world are the lay people who run the business of the church. Their power compared to the pastor varies depending on denomination - in my upbringing, the Deacons hire and fire the pastor and handle all the finances as well as all the other non-spiritual things. In my upbringing, there are some scriptural requirements to be Deacon including things like having well-behaved kids so the pressure was always on.)

Lots of similarities - silly rules, modest dress, pressure to behave a certain way, using religion to cover for bad behavior, etc.

I want to add to your welcome! There are a bunch of nevermos on the board including myself. Everyone adds a valuable perspective.

> Everyone adds a valuable perspective.


You 'care-bears'!!

Do you ever flunk a student?

>>Do you ever flunk a student?

In the past, yes -- on occasion. One little girl that I failed in first grade was a clear-cut decision. Most decisions are not. She never forgave me for it and still wondered why I did it years later. She almost lifted herself up, too -- she had been offered a sports scholarship to a very fine private high school, but had to give it up due to an injury. Hopefully she found another way to succeed.

Apart from that, it's usually a crap shoot. Sometimes it benefits a kid, sometimes it doesn't -- and you can't predict the results. The best place to hold kids back is either in Kindergarten, or preferably, first grade. That's where they get the most benefit.

I haven't bothered to hold kids back in the past five years because administrators make us jump through too many hoops, and most of the time a teacher's request fails anyway. School systems want to push kids on through.

Asked and answered. :)

When I was at my holiest, which was the last eight or so months before heading for the mission field, my weekly church schedule was


Monday: choir practice
Tuesday: MIA
Wednesday: Stake MIA meeting, as my ward's rep
Thursday: off
Friday: off
Saturday: a ward dance somewhere in the stake
Sunday: all day and into the night, with a youth fireside somewhere.

I was a sheep, safe in the corral.

More like a wolf in the sheep's corral...

I left for the mission practically a virgin.