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Posted by: Betty G ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 04:13PM

I am a Never-Mo living in the Morridor. I come here to deal with some of the craziness of living here. I find that people here normally have a better understanding of what the Mormons think and do than anywhere else. It helps me to understand and deal with some of the ridiculous things I deal with day to day. Sometimes it's more than others, sometimes I can go weeks without trying to figure out the weirdness that goes on around me.

I think some come here because they want to vent their frustration and anger (and I think that may be some of the reason I come here too) at the things that go in with the Mormons.

Others, I get the distinct feeling that they actually still LOVE the Mormon church and theology. With some of the things that go on with the church and the changes that occur or the things that others have done to them, they cannot support the way the Mormon church actually is. However, these people seem to follow all the Mormon conferences, meetings, policies and everything else Mormon. They know more about Mormon history and news than anyone I know of. They love the Mormon church still, but they don't LOVE TSCC...if that makes sense.

This is just to provide background on why I'm here and what I've seen predicatory to why I am making this thread out of the blue.

I am from the South. I grew up there, and I grew up during the period of integration. I have seen racism and it's nasty face. I learned at an early age we need to stand up against discrimination and it's ugly face. I know discrimination when I see it.

I recently read a VERY SHOCKING THREAD here. It was BLATANTLY anti-Semitic. IT was seriously disgusting and anyone who has ever seen the hidden discrimination against others could see it very clearly. I wanted to point this out because the VICTIM of the thread was the one punished, NOT those who were acting like a bunch of KKK bigots (though I truly believe most of them did not realize it).

I don't care about many of the threads where people talk against Christianity (and I actually understand the anger and how many are upset with it. I think it makes sense. I am an Evangelical, but I think many of those who are are angry, or are atheists, or simply dislike Christians are fully right to have their views). The Threads on circumcision did not bother me at all. I could see how some could take offense, but I wouldn't utilize it as offensive.

In fact, I normally don't see things that people would call offensive as being offensive here, even when they call evangelicals pretty bad stuff at times. The reason is that this is a board for recovery and healing. People need to be able to speak their minds and sound off on their thoughts. Expression is sometimes one of the best routes to heal, and the only way to do that is to express how hurt one is and how it has made them truly feel rather than hiding those feelings. I can understand that.

What I felt it went off the rocker is this...

White privilege. (what you say...how is that related. It's because sometimes those who are being prejudice don't realize it because it is something, they themselves, as part of the majority, do not experience. However, it can be blatantly obvious to those who do NOT experience that privilege).

Someone made a thread SPECIFICALLY to call someone out. In this thread that individual SPECIFICALLY called out anti-Semitism and then proceeded to attack someone who alleges to be Jewish. They then proceed to insult that person, mostly centered around the idea of Judaism, being Jewish, and the stereotype that is presented by Anti-semitics of Jews easily taking offense.

It then became a pile on to that particular and specific individual that was named as being a Jew.

Here's a clue for you...when people start saying they aren't being anti-Semitic...normally it's a big red flag that they actually ARE being anti-Semitic.

That still wasn't too bad...and wouldn't be why I'd make this thread. I WAS shocked when the one that was being attacked, the one that the anti-Semitism was focused on...the victim and target of the attack thread...was the one BANNED. If anyone was to be banned, IT SHOULD Have been those who were doing the anti-Semitism.

I only bring this up because I was taught when I was younger that we should stand UP to blatant evil when it rears it's head. There's MUCH I have no problem with and I can understand. If people want to say Evangelicals are the devil...I might express my own faith, but I ALSO understand that those statements may be well warranted. It's not the place for me to aggravate untended wounds...and people NEED to have those things out to heal.

However, banning a victim of abuse in a thread made specifically to ABUSE that victim, and specifically a thread made to point out someone is a Jew and that the Jews should not take offense to statements that could be seen to be at least a tiny bit anti-Jewish (not that I saw the original threads as such, but I am not going to further the point)...I'm not sure anyone else can see how that is NOT wrong.

I am from the South. I am an evangelical. We have some of the WORST records in regards to being racist, discriminatory, and prejudice. If I can see how blatant the anti-Semitism was in that thread...I have a HARD time seeing how no one else did.

This board, from what I recall is RFM and normally is used as such...right. It's why I COME here normally. I am SOOOO exasperated by Mormons and what is going on around me at times (and many days I feel I should try to find another job outside the Morridor...but it's HARD being a single mom and trying to afford housing and other things and right now this is a place I can afford it...until I find a better place) that I come here.

I hope this anti-Semitism is NOT showing what the board is becoming, because up until now I have used it to help with Mormonism and my difficulties with it. Anti-Semitism IS WRONG...and though many may persecute me now as well for pointing out the blatant discrimination that happened here in hopes that it can be repaired and never happen again (it would be BAD for RFM to become known as an White Power place...and yes, I AM a minority as well...so discrimination against me may ALSO becoming as I am aware of, but it is ALSO why I could see the discrimination and be disgusted by the results of it) I would hope that this NEVER occurs again or is allowed to occur on this board again.

Being a minority should not be and never be a get out of jail free card...and I agree with that. However, I think being a little more sensitive to what discrimination is, especially against certain groups of minorities, should probably be more mindful. Isn't that PART of the reason some where disgusted with Mormonism in the first place? Blatant discrimination. Blatant Racism. Even if they have changed some things, it's still very much part of the society here in the Morridor. They are racist in their very actions even if many do not realize that they are being so.

It's something I experience at least once a week in the Morridor from Mormons who probably don't even REALIZE they are being racist. It's the LAST thing I actually would want to experience on a board where I would hope is made to deal with getting away from the Mormons and their ideas, rather than bringing it right here to be re-experienced in our discussions here.

Thank you and sorry for pointing this out. Hopefully I am not also kicked out (though than I guess the board could start being proud they kicked out two minorities within a short time of each other....more white power for all the rest of you I guess). I have said what I have to say and will not engage in the thread again so it can die if everyone let's it.

I just want this to be a RFM board where we can freely discuss things without the same fear that Mormons bring out to us, and where those who are trying to recover from Mormonism (whether it was because they are ex-Mormons, Mormons trying to deal with life still, or those of us who are Never-Mo's but living among Mormons and trying to weave our way to a normal life somehow) can actually do so.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 04:22PM

So you are from the south and you are evangelical ?
Tell us more about evangelicals.

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Posted by: Betty G ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:02PM

I was from the South. I am Southern Baptist (Which many consider a very key Evangelical Group whether we agree with the assessment or not).

Some difficulties arose (long story, basically scum bag husband) and I suddenly was on my own. I was looking for work and at the time didn't know much about Utah or the surrounding states. Got a Job and moved. So now, no longer in the South but in the Morridor.

IT WAS A CULTURE SHOCK. I think this area is actually more racist than the area of the South I was living in...and that's pretty crazy. I don't think all of it is intentional, I think a lot of it is completely unintentional. However, it is aggravating. I see drivers going 5-10 miles over the speed limit every day, yet I will get pulled over for doing 27 in a 25. I've had my car searched for absolutely no reason, and various other things.

As far as my religious beliefs...this probably isn't the thread for it. I will say I tend to believe more in the Loving Jesus that accepts any who accept him with no other requirements. One can be saved today, tomorrow, or even later, as long as they accept him. Other than that, if there is a time and place to go more in detail, I might. Not really here to try to convert anyone or do something like that.

I'm mostly here because I get either confused, aggravated, or angry at some of the things Mormons do here in the Morridor, or to try to understand why they are doing the things they are doing (as a Never-Mo, some things people take for granted who are Mormons or ex-Mormons, confuse me).

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:26PM

What is the doctrine of evangelicalism ?

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Posted by: Dr. No ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:39PM

"I think this area is actually more racist than the area of the South I was living in...and that's pretty crazy. I don't think all of it is intentional, I think a lot of it is completely unintentional." (Betty G)
========================================
Interesting observation and concordant with what would have expected re: inbred Utah (gratefully outside of Zion here). Pretty generous to grant that it may be unintentional -- suspect this may be correct. It is ignorance.

Biggest thing TSCC teaches is to lie to oneself (denial) - so that it becomes impossible to clearly see oneself as one actually is. So, one may then engage in egregious behavior yet simultaneously think oneself an exceptionally wonderful human being. Unfortunately, what is unseen can't be fixed -- their lot is that of the hapless chap who didn't see the doggie-doo on the sidewalk. Oh well. Sad!

Fairly new to exmo, petty diverse bunch here it seems, that diversity may be why we didn't fit the straightjacket and left. Going to find all kinds. I think folks here, we're all doing best we can. No one actually trying to be difficult, don't think.

Your observations are interesting and hope you keep it up. Forces self-observation, introspection, and thought.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 04:42PM

Hi, Betty G:

I, also, am a nevermo--though I don't live in the Morridor. My story is that, sixteen years ago, I did a Google search, and that search led me here, to RfM. I found the fact I was looking for....and also what were to me an outstandingly intelligent, knowledgeable, and often amazingly humorous group of people who were actually more fun to be with than the "crowd" I usually was a part of IRL.

I am also a Jew, and in addition to all of the above, I found some (to me) hilariously outrageous statements and beliefs about the ancient Jewish temple (the "Second Temple"), Jews, and Judaism. I learned that these misapprehensions were actually taught Mormon beliefs ("Mormon temples are very much like the ancient Jewish temple," etc.), and I hung around, in large part because I wanted to, because it was fun to be here, but mostly to make the Jewish case that these so-called "Jewish" beliefs/practices taught by Mormonism had nothing to do with Jews, with Judaism, or with Jewish history (most especially the Second Temple!).

And I am still here--and still, when I encounter some misapprehension re: Jews/Judaism/Jewish history, I post to provide facts, and also explanations about "why" Jews are like this-or-that, or "why" someone non-Jewish makes the decision to join the Jewish people. (I am a convert to Judaism; my conversion occurred about four decades ago, after about thirty years of me actively trying to figure out how to actually DO it--it used to be significantly more difficult to convert to Judaism than it is today.)

So far as I know, no one Jewish has ever been banned from RfM. In the past, we did have a regular poster who was [born] Jewish, who died a few years ago....and besides me, we have another poster here who is actually (by Jewish law) a born Jew, but she has not been banned. (I'm pretty sure I would know if this had occurred. Mostly, we do "time outs" here when "time outs" are called for, but it usually takes a WHOLE lot of persistent, obstinate, breaking of the rules before anyone is actually banned.)

When you, as a new member, are becoming acclimated to an online community which has been in existence for more than a couple of decades (as is true of RfM), it can be difficult to understand what is going on, because a newer person doesn't understand the board and the community history that the long-timers have gone through together, nor the continuing references to those now deceased who were, in earlier days, important to those still here.

My now-experienced advice is: Stick around. This is a really good group of people who are frequently superlatively "good" in whatever ways are important.

Meanwhile, no Jewish member of this community has been banned (I think: in the entire history of this board).

Welcome!



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2019 04:55PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: Betty G ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 04:55PM

This happened just recently. There was a thread made specifically to call out a Jewish lady on those boards and call her names. She complained about it to the Admin and from all appearances in the thread, the Admin then banned her until after Labor day.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 04:59PM

Nightingale is no anti-Semite. She is a warm, loving, generous person with no ethnic animus at all. Your hero attacked her, me, and others mercilessly in a series of threads that you may or may not have seen. I make no claims for myself, but your insinuation that Nightingale is less than a sterling character is without merit.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:04PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nightingale is no anti-Semite. She is a warm,
> loving, generous person with no ethnic animus at
> all....your insinuation that Nightingale is less than
> a sterling character is without merit.

I totally agree.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:09PM

Tevai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lot's Wife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nightingale is no anti-Semite. She is a warm,
> > loving, generous person with no ethnic animus
> at
> > all....your insinuation that Nightingale is less
> than
> > a sterling character is without merit.
>
> I totally agree.


I totally agree as well as I'm sure many others are.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:11PM

Gee I wonder who Betty G a new poster could actually be?

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Posted by: Betty G ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:13PM

I've actually been here for years...

You can look up and see I've posted multiple times, and always under this screen name.

However, I do WANT to stay anonymous overall. I work for some very TBM's and cannot afford to lose my job. Furthermore, if people knew some of my feelings at times, I'm not sure Mormons would feel all that nice about it.

I tend to try to stay more on the arena of safety rather than being as brave as some here.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:38PM

Saucie is asking if you are Amyjo. I don't think you are. But I did take you up on your offer by reading some of your oldest posts, which are in fact revealing.

What I found is posted below.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 07:41PM

Well, I think you’re adorable. So many exmos are burned out on Christ and are in fact staunch Atheists. I find it sad that Joseph’s con could have hurt so deeply. All that and now no God? The devil himself couldn’t have invented a better church.

Your beliefs are welcome here, although there are rules in place to avoid re-living the psychological trauma of Mormonism’s betrayal. I went through the Mormon apocalypse. I lost my God. And then I found him. I said there could be no Savior. Because who can save you from yourself? But that’s exactly the thing. Only the transcendental element of you, which is what the Christ represents, can heal you. How it works is so “out there” that a mythology had to be built up, but the proof is in the pudding. I love God. I’m here for God.

Seek ye first the kingdom of heaven. That means be happy to be here. When you wake up in the morning, take a deep breath and say “thank you”.

Why the insecurity? What kind of faith is that? Yes, be prudent. But please stay.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:43PM

Betty G is not new here.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:13PM

Totally agree too. Nightingale is one of the treasures of the board. Total class act. Very empathetic and intelligent which is always a great combo.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:39PM

She is nearly unique.

So are you, D&D.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 07:14PM

Where in the hell are you keeping yourself, D&D?

And you don't really have to buy me lunch!! I was just kidding! (maybe)

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 08:13PM

fair and well spoken people on this board and she has been here for a long, long time. She has some of the best posts we see here.

I agree, where have you been D & D? You've been missed.

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Posted by: Betty G ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:09PM

Did I point out Nightingale?

No, I did not.

Though, the intent to create the thread is VERY QUESTIONABLE.

However, the thread itself didn't become bothersome UNTIL the punishment came in.

Then it became bothersome to me.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 06:26PM

Agreed. Amyo didn't start it and has been the victim of posters dogpiling on her on her.Why single her out?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2019 07:37PM by bona dea.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 07:19PM

Yeah, the old 'he drew first! I was just defending myself!"

Did you ever in your life see anyone so enthusiastic about lashing out at her supposed attackers? I mean outside of mara salvatrucha 18?

The phrase, "me thinks she doth protest too much" fits her to a T.

well, it fits whomever it might fit...

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 08:09PM

Doesn't change the fact that a.group of.posters compile on her on a regular basis. What is this, junior high???

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 09:01PM

There is an argument that has been made that Junior High is pretty much as good as it gets for 92.2% of humanity. 92.2% of us peaked and are trying to hold on to the stellar mentality that Junior High fosters.

Yay, humanity!

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 07:19PM

Betty G Wrote:

>
> However, the thread itself didn't become
> bothersome UNTIL the punishment came in.
>

Can you cite any direct reference on this board to said "punishment"? I don't know what it is to which you refer, and I don't think I'm alone in that respect.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 07:53PM

I have a theory that men are like dogs and women are like cats. We old dogs can only look upon a cat fight in bewilderment. To me it was like mud wrestling. Given the contestants, I would have gladly paid a fee.

Thanks for stepping up to quell the swishing tails.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:02PM

Betty G Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This happened just recently. There was a thread
> made specifically to call out a Jewish lady on
> those boards and call her names. She complained
> about it to the Admin and from all appearances in
> the thread, the Admin then banned her until after
> Labor day.

This is called a "time out."

A "time out" is for a limited period of time; banning is permanent. [It is permanent so far as I am aware; there may have been an exception here or there throughout the past twenty+ years].

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Posted by: Betty G ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:08PM

Time out is what is normally called a Temp Ban in most forums I've seen.

Banning whether temporary or permanent is still a ban.

She shouldn't have been. That thread was made specifically to bait her. It was made specifically to call her out for being a Jew and to try to drag her into an argument.

She was right to complain, it was WRONG to punish her.

I DON'T understand why they got away with it. I wouldn't have punished anyone as I try to be understanding, but punishing her specifically and bringing it up that she needed at time out when others created the thread to bait her...and bait her specifically for her Jewish beliefs and attack her over them...

That's wrong.

Anyways, I need to stop responding to the thread, I said my piece above. I'm not trying to dig up hostilities, but from the lessons of the past, when we see Jews being attacked, we need to stand up to those attacking them, lest the past repeat itself.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 07:20PM

What led you to believe this person was banned?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 08:06PM

> when we see Jews being
> attacked, we need to stand
> up to those attacking them,
> lest the past repeat itself.


Yeah. That's a very evangelical point of view. If you ever really see it happen here on RfM, please let me know. Luckily, on this particular occasion, no Jews were attacked. You can take that to the bank. A bitter conversationalist who lives to stir up trouble lashed out, and you had to see that it was what's her banned face. That you are saying otherwise is an act of self-condemnation.



One of the oddities of this situation is that her link to Judaism is through a Jewish "law" that says that only those children born of a Jewish mother can claim Judaism as their heritage. Obviously, when we consider what is known currently about genetics, "Jewishness" being passed on is a way hit or miss situation, depending on the DNA meiosis lottery.

It is entirely possible that a Jewish mother married to man of pure Black African heritage can bear his child and that child might have all her father's dominant genes expressed. She'd have the mother's recessive genes, but they might never have a chance to express themselves. The child would be a pure Black Jew, not genetically, but per 'the Law'. Makes a thinking person shrug and ask for another beer... But the law's the law!

And then there's the issue of 'when' she became Jewish. If you'd asked her during her best mormon days if she was Jewish, or wanted to claim it, she might have poo-pooed the whole deal, and claimed to be nothing but a mormon, with a heritage going back six generations! Oh, wait, as far as taking credit for OG mormon connections, that's exactly what she did! And she is apparently going to be the first Daughter of the Utah Pioneers who turned out to be Jewish!

I know I'm coming across like a broken record, but thank you for starting this thread. It has been cathartic! I'm gonna sleep so good tonight! Bless your little pea-picking heart!

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 08:11PM

I agree and can think of plenty of posters who have not been banned.or given time outs whose behavior has been much worse.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2019 08:11PM by bona dea.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 06:04PM

Itend to.agree. I found two threads reacting against one poster excessive and wrong. I reported it and I hope something is done especially since the Jewish poster had asked to be .left alone. For the .record, I have disagreed with both posters in the past. Insight .one the post actually anti.Semitic but more a personal attack.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 04:45PM

You're going to have to be specific about what you believe was evidence of widespread anti-semitism here. Otherwise it's just empty accusations.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 04:49PM

Criticizing circumcision is not criticizing Jews.

And when you speak of "white privilege," you are assuming the people you are describing are white. You may want to reconsider your assumptions.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:28PM

Perhaps it would be a good idea to watch and read the board for a few weeks before making assumptions based on partial information. It's like assuming you know the whole situation of a family from hearing bits and pieces of their dinner conversation at the local diner.

We've had very helpful and well informed posters join the conversation here because they read the information on the main page, read the rules and information at the top of screen and read posts and replies for a few weeks before trying to presume to take a dominate role.

Read, study, ponder, and ease in gradually is my advice.

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Posted by: Ted ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 06:18PM

Wow...well stated Cheryl. Great advice.

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:37PM

My gut reaction is that I feel suspicious of this post. I’d have to re-read everything to make sure, but I don’t remember any anti-semitism. That’s my two cents as a newcomer (so no built in favouritism for anyone) for what it’s worth.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 07:58PM

I was thinking more along the lines of unresolved childhood trauma, but that’s just me.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:37PM

I just went to the trouble of reading some of your earliest posts. I think you are a quack.

In the first place, you claim that the Moridor police are persecuting you because you get a traffic ticket. I feel that way when I get a parking citation, but we all know that the malefactors are not Mormon officers you claim but rather agents of the Illuminati. In the second place, you insinuate that you first encountered Mormonism when you moved to the Inter-Mountain West for a job, yet that is not true.

When you first started posting in August 2016, you demonstrated a deep understanding of Mormon doctrine--more than most active Mormons have. You thus spoke of the Seventies, "emeritus" status for "General Authorities," the "sealing" power, the fact that you read your "genealogy," the fact that your parents have the records of your family, and the proposition that your grandmother was "sealed" to a man she disliked. You also speak of the "15 apostles," something that few outsiders have any clue about. Even more strangely, you defended "Reformed Egyptian" and say that we ex-Mormons criticizing that canard are thereby harming a lot of people. Those are not the opinions of someone who just stumbled into Utah but rather reflect deep family experience with the religion tinged by the tiniest dollop of paranoia.

Thirdly, you are not a neutral observer. In that month you also wrote "I HATE the Ex-Mormons. They are SO FILLED WITH HATE they could be part of a hate group." Such statements do not make you appear a balanced person whose judgments about events here should be taken terribly seriously.

Your forcefully expressed sentiments about our little community should be borne in mind when evaluating the accusations you make in this thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2019 06:16PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 07:34PM

Thanks for the research, LW.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 07:58PM

Relevant, I thought.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 08:05PM

Detective Columbo would be proud.
“One more thing, miss, almost slipped my mind.”

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 05:54PM

I love the South. The people there are so nice. I guess you’d have to be with that kinda heat. Georgia peaches and Jimmy Carter, it doesn’t get much sweeter than that.

So maybe you should be able to relate to the Morrdor and its weird racial apartheid. Here’s one account of Utah’s settlement:

“It was the summer of 1847 our lives would be changed, a new people would come, not like the “big hats” of old. These people would build fences, claim lands and disrupt our culture and way of life. Bringing confusion as they spoke of their God and peace while sharing sacks of flour laced with broken glass. Brigham Young said “You can get rid of more Indians with a sack of flour than a keg of powder.” Destroying us with what appeared to be acts of kindness. As our Timpanogos tribal leaders Kanosh, Tabby, Washakie, Little Wolf, Wanship, Little Chief, Kone, Blue Shirt, Big Elk, Opecarry, Old Battestie, Tintic, Sowiet, Angatewats, Walkara, Graspero and others extend their hospitality to Brigham Young and his followers, they were unaware of the bloodshed that would follow, some 150 bloody confrontations between 1847-70.”

“By the year 1909 most of our leaders were killed many of them in the Black Hawk War, our population decreased from approximately 70,000 to about 1,300. Today our population is close to 900. The newcomers called us the “Lamanites” the chosen people, we were chosen to walk knee deep in the blood of our ancestors…”

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 06:12PM

To address your civility concern, because I thought my punch line was more important, this is mostly a civil and well-managed crowd. With wisdom comes a bit of old baggage. You don’t have to carry it.

Normal people deal with Mormonism and move on. You’re not dealing with normal people.

What you will find are extremely critical thinkers who are willing to tackle life’s most perplexing existential questions. Then you have dumb shits like me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2019 06:17PM by babyloncansuckit.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 08:36PM

Baby, you are not dumb. A shit, perhaps, but not dumb!


;-)

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Posted by: Historian ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 06:11PM

Careful - you are being baited above.

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Posted by: Ted ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 06:14PM

"when people start saying they aren't being anti-Semitic...normally it's a big red flag that they actually ARE being anti-Semitic."

Sorry, that's an over-generalization. I don't agree. If I asked you right now whether you are anti-Semitic, you would say "no...I am not." According to your standard that denial means you truly are. I read the prior posts, and she was being accused of anti-Semitism, and she denied that she was, so? Any of us would deny it if accused.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 06:26PM

I think what she’s getting at is that we unconsciously insert red flags into our communication to bypass our normal formalisms of self denial. It’s helpful to read the flags. Or ignore them and drive straight into a wreck.

I don’t think it translates to cyberspace, but who knows?

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 06:56PM

Accuse someone of being anti-Semitic and they'll say it isn't so which does not mean that's what they are actually anti-Semetic.

These kinds of unsubstantiated accusations don't prove a thing except that the accuser might be wrong, rude, or simply biased.

Someone here accused me of several ugly terms the other day, racist and a couple of the phobic insults that are sometimes hurled with zero evidence. I am none of those things and I was appalled that someone would pull those insults out of thin air and slam me with them.

If a targetted person denies them, they're called liar. If they ignore them, they're considered guilty.

Name calling doesn't say as much about the target as it explains the person who wallows in this kind of behavior.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 06:56PM

Well I really like the posts by "you know who," We think a lot alike, she might even be a relative of mine (through the Jewish side?) But admin is right taking a break is good, this place is suppose to be a place of healing not fighting. It's better to listen and clarify than to argue.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 07:12PM

I hope you get to tell her that! No person should be considered a lost cause.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 08:29PM

It will all be sorted out in the next life.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 07:20PM

Once again: Thank you, thank you, thank you, Betty G!!!

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 08:27PM

Here is the rub. There are no sacred cows here. People here are big into critical thinking skills. Some are just learning them, some are honing them. This is a skill we were not taught in mormonism. Hell, they did their best to squash it out of us at every age and stage. Great way to control people especially if you can get at them as children. Facts trump feelings or personal beliefs. I feel that, I believe that, only go so far here. And lol, you better have good sources and most of the time multiples of them to prove facts! This is one of the main ways most of us got out. Don't piddle on my shoe and tell me it is raining.

Another thing that LDSInc doesn't teach us is how to disagree. Contention is of The Debil and all that. Disagreement is NOT a "Personal Attack". Others ARE going to have different viewpoints and experiences. This is something the board is here for too. This is not a place where everyone just stands around and echos group think. Support doesn't mean turning your brain off or invalidating your own point of view.

This is a place to learn, grow and try on new hats :)

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 08:42PM

Good point. Judaism especially teaches you how to disagree. There’s not “one true Judaism” to defend (as much as a tribe) so the anti-semitism characterization is apples to oranges.

RfM is not where you go to put people in their place. You’d have better luck at your local biker bar.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 10, 2019 08:50PM

I humbly suggest that the word "tribe" is best avoided when talking about Judaism (other than the original 12 tribes) and the Arab world. It trivializes serious political issues and seems patronizing.

I am told it's better to describe Judaism as an ethnicity or a culture or a community.

For what it's worth.

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