My partner's family is from some small town above Turin and apparently think they are related to Jesus

Can someone explain this?

If they are related to Jesus, He had celiac disease.

Jesus and Mary Magdalene...

Read or see Dan Brown's "The De Vinci Code."

Or do a Google search for Jesus + Mary Magdalene + children, or some such.

Before televised sports, people were desperate for diversions, thus being related to Jesus became a thing, just like seeing Bigfoot, or the virgin Mary...

In mormon lore that is no longer taught, Jesus was a polygamist and had children.

On a broader scale.... Jesus had brothers and sisters. James the Just the brother of Jesus for example.

Others believe some of the original apostles were related to Jesus.

John the Baptist was related to Jesus.

Heartless Wrote:
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> In mormon lore that is no longer taught, Jesus was
> a polygamist and had children.

Ah-ha! "Mormon lore!" A few questions for the experts here:

1) Can anybody locate such teaching in Church-sanctioned writings, prophets' speeches, General Conference addresses, or best of all, (un)holy scripture?

2) Was it ever doctrine?

3) Any personal recollections of when, and circumstances about, the cessation of this teaching?

4) Would we find this actively taught among the polygamists?

Journal of Discourses 2:210 Orson Hyde an apostle speaking 18 March 1855.

"Eastern newspapers represent me as a blasphemer because I said in my lecture on marriage at our last conference, that Jesus was married to Mary, Martha and others and begat children."

Still interested in hearing from people who remember this being discussed during their LDS past lives. Context and approximate dating would also be interesting.

A few years ago my TBM SIL posted a link to some Mormon bunk about feminism. In the ensuing dust up, all her flying monkey TBM friends joined in the pile-on, and were chiming in about how they were looking forward to eternal motherhood, etc. One lady added "the only one who wasn't married was Lucifer," so I would assume she believes Jesus was married. And none of them "corrected" her, so the others probably do too. These are folks who were born in or around the late 1960s.

In the 60s and 70s in Davis County utah this was a common held belief in the wards I attended.

The married part I have heard off and on including it being taught in the 70s in seminary.

The descendants part was more rare to hear about. Though it was supported by an interpretation of a biblical scripture stating that when Jesus was crucified he'd look down on his children.

When "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" came out in the 80s most folks in my circle thought nothing new was in the book as a married Jesus was a common belief.

I love talking about bloodlines of imaginary characters.

Smirk.

I'm pretty sure I'm related to Heracles, son of god Zeus and a mortal mother. Considering he didn't seem so bright and killed his children, I don't like to brag about my bloodline to this character.

I'll bet you are related to Thomas the Train Engine!

J/K

Did that comment make you feel edgy?

After looking at my genealogy, I realized the work that has been done is pretty much wishful thinking on the part of whoever did it. If my DNA results had shown this, it would've been more believable. My genealogy on both my father and mother's sides shows I'm descended from Jesus,whose father is listed as Joseph,who is from a line of the Jewish leaders. But at least it's in His real name, Yehushua. It also shows I'm descended from Sir Lancelot. Yep, genealogy can get pretty interesting if you have the patience to look back through what could be questionable; kinda like church history. :) One thing that I like is that I'm descended from Sir Henry Morgan; pirates are more fun than royalty anyway.

I have no interest in finding out who my ancestors are. It is ridiculous to me how people are so into being related to someone famous. I could care less.

”when I asked for the secret to her success, she grimaced and said, ’It's cousins all the way down...’ then turned and walked away.”

--Judic West, in a YouTube video banned in most ghawd-fearing countries

Can I see it? After all, I do live in France where any fearing or otherwise of gods or not is considered a private matter which should not impinge upon its citizens (or something like that ;-).

A Mystery Fan in Paris

"Cousins all the way down."

You can't beat Young Master West for these insights!

I’m confused as to how anyone can believe they are descended from jesus or anyone who lived 2000 years ago. Surely records don’t go back that far? Do mormons have a secret stash of ancient records?!
Even if this is an actual thing, why is this a thing people care about? Who I’m related to has nothing to do with who I am or my life as it is in the here and now. In fact, I’d rather divorce myself from whoever I happen to be related to by accident of birth. Minus the stupid, weird requirement to baptise the dead, I otherwise don’t get why genealogy is such a thing with mormons.

Civilisation sort of collapsed after the end of the Western Roman Empire...

Here is an article with some comments in a similar vein.




https://thetemplarknight.com/2011/03/01/desposyni-the-blood-line-of-jesus/

Actually, this is me, your good old Caffiend. Just couldn't resist some fun. The stuff on Knights Templar and DaVinci Code is intriguing, but I'm mainly interested in how ordinary Mormons have understood and discussed Jesus' alleged marriage and offspring.

Heartless--you reference Davis County in the 60s & 70s. This is home base to the Kingstons. I heard or read somewhere that they have a belief in their being blood descendants of Jesus--do you know if I have that right? Does anybody have any info or recollections about such beliefs, vz. the Kingstons? One of their justifications for inbreeding is--if I have this right--to keep the Messianic bloodline pure. (Yeah, enough to gag me, but that's my understanding.)

Many interesting answers, and thank you all. Hoping more have thoughts, links, and memories to share.

I have no insights into the Kingstons.

The Kingstons' corporate entity is the "Davis County Cooperative," after all.

Kingston involvement in law enforcement scandal in LA

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-08-27/la-county-sheriff-lee-baca-fraud-scheme-utah

But they do fascinate me. Just think: "the Mormon Mafia," kind of a mix of Breaking Bad, House of Cards, and Godfather. Fascinating!

I agree with that characterization. I think the Kingston clan should be declared an organized criminal enterprise.

Blood Descendant of Xenu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, this is me, your good old Caffiend. Just
> couldn't resist some fun. The stuff on Knights
> Templar and DaVinci Code is intriguing, but I'm
> mainly interested in how ordinary Mormons have
> understood and discussed Jesus' alleged marriage
> and offspring.
>
> Heartless--you reference Davis County in the 60s &
> 70s. This is home base to the Kingstons. I heard
> or read somewhere that they have a belief in their
> being blood descendants of Jesus--do you know if I
> have that right? Does anybody have any info or
> recollections about such beliefs, vz. the
> Kingstons? One of their justifications for
> inbreeding is--if I have this right--to keep the
> Messianic bloodline pure. (Yeah, enough to gag me,
> but that's my understanding.)
>
> Many interesting answers, and thank you all.
> Hoping more have thoughts, links, and memories to
> share.
Bruce Wydner is a great source for this information as he is uniquely qualified with his study in the dozen or so languages, ancient and modern, that he works with, a multi-talanted historian who has studied words on levels that others cannot.

Bruce Wydner rejects the notion that Jesus had any children or that he was married. This is not because of the ample evidence but because he himself did not get married until he was into his 40s, having 5 children after that, and he relates his experience into that of Jesus having a similar focus on his calling in life, that would have kept him unavailable for marriage.

I on the other hand, I have dug into Bruce Wydner's research and I clearly see evidence of Jesus' marriage and children, I have found at least 3 Nordic names that I believe belong to his children, as well as the Nordic names for one of his wives and the Nordic name for his mother. As just about every scholar knows the name Mary did not exist at the time of Jesus, nor did the name Jesus exist for that matter, Jesus is a Greek alteration of the Hebrew name for that which we in English use "Joshua."

Now I may have some things wrong but here it goes...

Jesus' oldest son is named Yngvi-Freyr, shortened to sound like “Ing,” Yng became one of the first Patriarch/Kings of the Swedish people, and Yng is where we get Eng for the English People. The Queen of England claims to be a decedent of Yng. Joseph Smith, Jr. is also a decedent of Yng. Yng was raised by his uncle "Njord," Jesus' brother-in-law and king in the "North," in an Israelite settlement on the north shore of the Black Sea, with the Israelite people who called themselves the Wayne People.

According to the Icelandic Sagas, when Jesus brought most of the Church in Jerusalem up to the north shore of the Black Sea where the Don River connects, Njord and Freyr were living with the people there, he took Njord and Freyr, changed Freyr’s name to Yng and put them into the 12 apostles of the Church.

Yng’s father is Jesus Christ, his foster father is Njord. Yng’s grandmother is Frigg, in Jerusalem Frigg’s name was the Hebrew for Miriam and Yng’s mother, and a wife of Jesus Christ is Freya, Both of these women were named the same in Jerusalem, the Nordics made some distinction, but it is from the name of Jesus Christ’s mother that we get the English word Free.

The “Holy Grail” are the decedents of Jesus Christ through Yng, who are the Patriarchal bloodline and kings of Sweden.

The Books that Bruce Wydner has authored contain all this information.

Wynder is an idiot. He is a Mormon/pseudo-Mormon idiot who teaches the old racist, polygamist, United Order nonsense. He is a rambling, barely coherent zealot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAyThSp_rKg

You are using him, 1943moon, because he supports your mish-mash of religious tripe. From 10:50 onward, he claims that the Lost Tribes moved to northern Europe and became the "Anglo-Saxons." He says that Joseph Smith--and he himself and presumably, given your Swedish last name, you as well--is a descendant of pure Israelite blood. That fits your claims that races are real, that blacks are inferior, and you are superior.

Here is a post describing McDonkie's avowed "white supremacist" views and explaining why those views got him banned from the Dah*shist board as well as why he was initially banned from here, a pattern that has continued at least six more times. You'll note that his views are a more overt version of the racism implicit in this Wydner clip.

This stuff has no place here. And a ban should be a ban even if the old racism appears in new bottles.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,70613,70637#msg-70637



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2019 03:19PM by Lot's Wife.

The story I learned is that Joseph of Armethea went with Mary (mother of Jesus) and sailed to Ireland. Ireland is traditionally the place that Jeremiah the old testament prophet ended up after fleeing Jerusalem. He had two daughters and married one off to the King of Spain and then one off to the Chieftain at Tara (Torah) the ancient city we now call Dublin.

Dublin is suppose to have hidden under the streets the original Torah, the ark of the covenant, Probably Moses staff that created the earth, and the challis, that if one drinks he shall have everlasting life.


None of these artifacts have been found yet.
(House of Israel, Joseph Whitehead 1948)

So the bloodline is suppose to run down through the Irish.

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Dublin is suppose to have hidden under the streets
> the original Torah, the ark of the covenant,
> Probably Moses staff that created the earth, and
> the challis, that if one drinks he shall have
> everlasting life.
>
> Some of these legends are fascinating, but--"(the) Moses staff that created the earth,"...) Now THAT's rich! I'll assume it's an inventory mixup, macaRomney.

Were YOU told, or given lessons about, Jesus' purported marriage and (especially) how that fits into Mormonism?

Now that you mention it I'm not sure what Whitehead (1948) said about the staff? In the book of Jasher written about 1000 bc, it writes that the staff and the coat of skins were passed down from the patriarchs all the way to Noah. By possessing the coat of skins it was supposedly meant to make one invincible. So when Ham saw his fathers nakedness after the flood, he stole the artifact and received special powers, which were inherited by Nimrod, who was a mighty man of old, conquered the sons of men, and built the tower.

The staff was the artifact with special magical powers that was passed down through the patriarchs and ended up in the hands of Jethro Moses father in law. Which could do just about anything magically (Jasher). It was kept with the Arch of the covenant in the tabernacle and later temple until the scattering of Israel by the Bablylonians in 588 BC. So wherever the Arch is? we are suppose to find the staff as well.

But as for the challis, to clarify, Jesus was supposedly to have had a baby daughter. And after he died Mary mother of god, Mary Magdalene, and Joseph of Armethea were suppose to have set sail with the challis and ended up where the Arch of covenant was which was Ireland.

“None of these artifacts have been found yet.”

And they never will. They’re guarded by leprechauns. You may be entitled to a vision of them if you drink enough green beer.

I know the Jesus being married thing was taught in the 70s! I remember it being taught that Jesus was also married in the temple to Mary Magdelene and a few others. It was also taught that while Jesus was here, he was also working his way to the CK.

My seminary teacher in the late '50's told us Jesus was not only married, he was a polygamist.

My second cousin has our joint genealogy traced all the way back to Michael the Archangel, otherwise known as Adam. I've found family stories about how wealthy our great-grandfather was until he gave it all up to join the church. Funny thing is that the census records back to 1850 show that the family was poor and lived in the worst neighborhoods in London, according to the Booth poverty maps.

As I recall he didn't have us related/descended from Jesus.

I have an in-law who can't get over being descended from William the Conquerer. Well, there are some suspicious gaps in the record--it all depends on what a certain surname really was as recorded in the parish records 500 years ago.

Don't you love genealogy?

To when my illustrious forebear kidnapped billions of Preexistent soul-Thetans from Kolob and took them to Teegeeack (now known as "Earth"), imprisoned them in volcanic prisons, and then killed them.

With Lucifer's help, of course!

Not just Mormons have their own movie, or John Travolta: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XhNuXvlCTTc

think they are related to Jesus...is your partner's family.

Surely, they have some basis for that belief (even if it's just a fraudulent genealogy)?

More generally, there are probably at least a dozen competing narratives based on the notion that Jesus was married and had kids and descendants. Dan Brown popularized one of them.

To be persuasive, any such claim would have to have solid evidence connecting the dots all the way back to a historical Jesus that perfectly matches up with the Jesus of the New Testament. Unfortunately, even though an adequate dot-connecting exercise would require about 200 hundred solid, fact-based "dots", none of the theories get close. The find and connect a half dozen historical dots, the earliest of which are several centuries AFTER Jesus supposedly lived and then just speculate about the rest with interesting, but ultimately unprovable, stories that they make up to fill in the gaps.

Even if they could accurately trace themselves back to Jesus (assuming he existed), who the heck was his father?

The gospels trace Joseph's genealogy (with inconsistencies) and not Mary's, right?

So, apparently tracing Mary back to Adam is not possible and Joseph's genealogy is useless.

So, people who came from the Jesus line have inherited the magic Y chromosome of an unknown father (or whoever knocked up Mary - God did it...yeah, that's the ticket.)

I'm not sure which Christians think Joseph was the father. I know some do. Others think Mary was "pure" (aka not touched by filthy sex apparently) which makes genetics a little hard to explain.

My sister has us traced back to Adam and William the Conqueror (like all good Mormons can do!). I'm sure she can link us to any LDS prophet somehow but no links to Jesus. How special!

There was a family in our old ward who heard that we had one of those new-fangled computers and a printer that read those "cards." He said he had his family's genealogy stored on one such card but had no way to print it up.

DH, being the kind soul he is, offered the use of our printer.

I'll be gol-danged if said Ward Brother wasn't related to just about everybody who was anybody in Western European history. Charlemagne was indeed one of them; Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar (AKA El Cid) was another, who caught my eye in particular. Queen Victoria may have been in the mixture too - I don't remember.

I was a fairly new convert at the time, but this business of being related to a Who's Who of European nobility struck me as more than a little far-fetched. Already, the seeds of exmoism were beginning to stir.

"Past lives regression" (or recall) was popular during the New Age of the 1970s and 80s. I remember somebody's observation that people tended to "discover" that they had been prominent or exotic persons in history, like kings and queens, Attila the Hun, handmaid to an Incan high priest, pirates, etc.

A recent article (sorry, can't source) considered why people in Scientology don't split when they get to the weird Xenu & the space wars galactic fantasy stuff ("Level III"). Part of the answer: during "auditing," many of them have "recovered" exotic interstellar "memories," when they commanded fleets of star ships, blew up planets, escaped interplanetary fleets, and stuff like that. So the Xenu myth isn't so far-fetched to them.

Also worth noting is that during this period pseudo-psychological "recovered memories" was practiced, with many people --at the coaching of "guides" -- claimed to discover that they had been the victims of parental sexual abuse, satanic rituals, and all sorts of ugly things. Many families were devastated by this fraud, and a few people actually went to prison on unsubstantiated charges.

Blood Descendant of Xenu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Past lives regression" (or recall) was popular
> during the New Age of the 1970s and 80s. I
> remember somebody's observation that people tended
> to "discover" that they had been prominent or
> exotic persons in history, like kings and queens,
> Attila the Hun, handmaid to an Incan high priest,
> pirates, etc.

"Somebody's observation" is incorrect. I know many people who have been regressed, and the prior lifetimes they relate are extremely ordinary: housewife, soldier, farmer, etc. I asked Kathleen Jenks (who has regressed an enormous number of people over more than forty years) how many regressions cite "famous" people, and her answer was: two (one of which, because of the huge content of "inside" historical detail, she believed to be highly probably genuine).

I know that the put-down rep was that everyone who gets regressed finds out they were once "somebody," but this is not true. To a very high degree, regressions are highly detailed descriptions of mostly very boring (and often very painful) lives. (People being regressed tend to return to the painful lives, because these are the ones which are still unresolved.)

Read the scion revelation by lynn Picknett Who is also an exmormon

The important thing to remember is that if you could magically time travel Jesus to modern day Provo, TBM's who might say they are part of His bloodline would avoid Him and step around Him because He would be one of those "little brown people."

Chicken N. Backpacks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The important thing to remember is that if you
> could magically time travel Jesus to modern day
> Provo, TBM's who might say they are part of His
> bloodline would avoid Him and step around Him
> because He would be one of those "little brown
> people."

True.

:)

I heard that Jesus' wife was Wilma. They married in secret, and she was devastated at his death. However, she met a nice fellow by the name of Fred. They had a child, a cat, and a Dino. Word has it that she died quite happy, but with sore feet from starting the car. This, of course, was documented by her neighbors Barney and Betty Rubble. There were always questions if Jesus was Pebbles real father. But she had many traits of Fred.

Anyhow.. the source for this is Hanna-Barbera. Sometime in the late 1960's and early 1970's. Pebbles bloodline data has been lost to history. So, we may never know.

HH =)