https://www.npr.org/2019/09/15/760135010/we-dont-want-to-die-women-in-turkey-decry-rise-in-violence-and-killings

There is audio with this story, and it is not for the fainthearted. We often decry Mormonism as a misogynist religion (whichit is), and the same could be said for Christianity, Islam, and the vast majority of other religions in this world. The story at the above link shows what the end result of misogyny looks like, and it is not a pretty picture, especially for women. John Krackour's (pardon if I misspelled his name) book, Under the Banner of Heaven, shows the end result of the same kind of beliefs when Mormons do it. That said, I am of the strong opinion that individuals should be judged and punished for their behaviors and not for the religious beliefs they say that they hold.

So you are saying that it is OK to have those beliefs but it is not OK to act upon those beliefs.

That is correct. You cannot force a person to change his/her beliefs against his/her will.

You know free will. Their culture isn't to blame. *tongue In Cheek.

Turkey has been one of the countries I have paid particular attention to since I was in junior high.

I can't remember the reason why, but back then I read a biography of Kemal Ataturk (1881-1938), who--according to the bio--virtually single-handedly wrenched Turkey out of the Middle Ages it had been mired in, and birthed it (by international standards) into the modern world.

As a junior high student, I was amazed that one person could have such a widespread, positive effect on such an ancient country and entrenched culture, and I turned this over in my head for decades afterwards.

Obviously, there has been significant regression in the time since I read that bio. (Or, alternatively, the reforms of Ataturk were not nearly as all-encompassing as I, at that time twelve or thirteen years old, had envisioned from reading that bio.)

Maybe it's just a matter of human cultures taking three steps forward, and then two (or perhaps three or four) back, but it sure seems like Turkey, for all of its historic accomplishments and contributions to the world throughout the past three thousand years, is currently having a particularly rough go at this "improving the culture" stuff.

What Turkey does possess is a verifiable historical record of positive cultural changes and governmental accomplishments because of Kemal Ataturk.

I hope they can turn it around again, and build on this positive historical record, because right now, the more recent cultural regression they have gone through seems enormous.

I agree with you that Turkey was a relatively enlightened place for much of the last century. But your description of Ataturk is far too generous.

When the Young Turks, of whom Mustafa Kemal was a prominent leader, decided to construct a state on the basis of ethnicity, they embarked on a genocidal path. Kemal played a major role in the slaughter of between one and two million Armenians as well as the persecution of large numbers of Jews and Christians and others. It was only later that Turkey became a relatively progressive and tolerant country.

Now that the country has evolved away from a relatively liberal place and towards an Islamic dictatorship, the secular decades do indeed inspire nostalgia. But no one should forget what the Young Turks, and particularly General Kemal, did in the 1910s and early 1920s. He was, in truth, less a Thomas Jefferson than a Slobodan Milosevich.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/18/2019 01:35PM by Lot's Wife.

I am sure it has nothing to do with Islam because it's not a religion of violence. The clerics there must be abhorred at what's happening are doing everything they can to stem the tide of domestic violence.

Man, if I look cross-eyed at my wife, she'd kick my booty. Truly do feel very sorry for these beautiful women. Hope things change for them.