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Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 11:00AM

I just finished watching a segment of the morning news that was dealing with how to spot all the different ways vaping mechanisms can be hidden by students at school. It seems almost anything can be a vaping device and yet look totally innocent. The parents and teachers were finding only about 35% of the student's devices in a test the newscasters devised.

It's awfully sad that kids of this age would choose to risk their health.

I know I'm an old timer now but back in my high school days my father took me aside and told me that I was too old for him to follow around with a baseball bat and try to scare me out of doing all the things that might harm me. I think he was mostly concerned about sexual activity but didn't say that in so many words.

My dad said that he and my mother were trying their best to teach me what was potentially harmful, dangerous, and life threatening but in the end it would be up to me to choose for myself how I reacted to life choices. He said he thought I was mature and smart enough to start making my own choices and he hoped that I would choose wisely. He would always be there for me no matter if my choices were wise or unwise. He never used the words "good" or "bad" nor "sinful" or "righteous". He wasn't that kind of guy.

Good ole dad was slowly turning the responsibility to run my own life over to me but warned that he could not take away the consequences if I made mistakes. I would have to face up to my own outcomes.

I think youth today are either given too little instruction and example from their parents on how to become adults or are over protected and hovered over continually so they cannot make any mistakes. The modern world may have more ways for a youth to do self-harm but parents have to teach and let go at some point.

Vaping seems a no brainer. It's harmful. It's serious. Explain to your kids how and why it is bad for them. But you cannot frisk them every day at home and at school until they move out of your home. Make sure the consequences are made clear about their health and what will happen if they get caught at school vaping or holding vaping devices. A child's brain may not be fully developed as a teenager but he still has the ability to reason. Help him develop that ability.

Don't get me started on social media and texting.......

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 03:04PM

Well I wouldn’t want any child of mine to begin vaping. It’s a silly thing to start doing for no reason.

However, for ex-smokers it’s a good way to give up smoking when giving up is so hard. Smoking is the worlds biggest killer, vaping has killed a handful of people at most. It’s best to keep it in perspective. No it’s not great. But it’s hardly a danger to society either. Relatively speaking it's fairly innocuous.

I don’t like seeing these blanket statements here on this site about how drinking, vaping, or whatever it is, is totally “bad”. They’re not great, but outside of mormonism I value the shades of grey and open mindedness, rather than the black and white thinking I was once accustomed to.

There may be some scientific evidence now that vaping is not good for you. I see this as the latest scaremongering typical of the media. A handful of people (in America only) recently died of vaping related lung disease. And now suddenly vaping is an issue. Never mind the fact that smoking kills millions of people each year - but no, this is old news people are bored with, so now we hear about vaping.

Let’s keep things in perspective.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 12, 2019 10:20AM

I'd like to point out that at the very beginning of the AIDS epidemic, "only a handful of people died" from a little known disease called Karposi's Sarcoma, a product of a severely compromised immune system. Those deaths were an early warning of an illness that would take doctors years to fully understand and address. In those years, people were being struck down with force. I was working in NYC at the time, in an industry that traditionally attracted a lot of gay men. About every month, I heard about a client or coworker who had died. And all this from "just a few deaths" at the beginning.

Vaping is still relatively new. Physicians believe that it is safer than smoking, and they may be right. But all of the consequences of vaping are yet unknown. Personally, I think that people who vape are treating themselves like experimental lab animals.

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: October 12, 2019 10:45AM

I don’t think vaping, or even smoking, should be compared to the aids epidemic, especially as people vaping don’t spread what they’re doing to other people, although I take your point. So I will concede, and say, ok, we are lab rats and should we continue with our habit we will all one day die horribly.
So I can understand people wanting to protect their children.
What I don’t understand is the need for some people here to actually criticise those who vape. My vaping habits are hardly making teenagers start vaping. That has nothing to do with me. Or indeed who have any habit or addiction. I might defend myself, but I don’t go around promoting vaping. And just as I don’t do that, I don’t see why I have to be criticised just for doing something that helped me quit smoking. I’m not hurting anyone and neither is anyone else who does it. Why is it that on a site for ex-mormons people can still be so opinionated and close minded? Not to mention the abusive comment above that for some reason hasn’t been deleted. That’s all stuff for the Mormons surely.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 12, 2019 11:25AM

You are an adult and can make your own informed decisions. I don't have a problem with that. I'm just pointing out that vaping is still relatively new and that not all of the consequences of vaping are known. The consequences will be better understood 5, 10, or 20 years from now. It is possible that some health problems may take years to develop. It is possible that vaping is relatively safe as long as you don't overdo it. Nobody really knows at this point.

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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 10:23PM

In my opinion, the Vaping "epidemic" is blown out of proportion. How many people have died in the last few months from vaping? 20? I'm not sure it is even that much.

Cigarette smoking kills 1,300 people every day! Why is there no one mentioning that?!! Where is the public outcry in our media calling for the ban of cigarette smoking? Probably has something to do with the tobacco industry's hold on corporate media.

Of course, anytime you breath in foreign substances into your lungs it is probably not good for you but our focus on what is really killing us is being misdirected.

As a person who was raised in mormon culture I know there is a tendency for me to get caught up in the vaping uproar.

There SHOULD be an uproar, just not on Vaping per se.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 10:30PM

because it is something new--vaping and vaping illnesses. A lot of people don't really think about it. My son does vape and he vapes marijuana that I don't know where it comes from. I have made him aware. He is almost 34. Marijuana has saved his life, so I have a hard time throwing a fit (which wouldn't go over well with him--he will do exactly opposite of what I tell him). If I see him getting sick, see the symptoms, I'll make sure he is at the doctor in no time flat.

Marijuana got him off hard drugs and alcohol. He acts like a normal human being these days. I almost lost him a few times in the past to drugs and attempted suicide twice. I wish they'd just make marijuana legal so that we can make sure the kids vaping it (because most are not going to stop) are getting stuff that can be watched better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2019 10:31PM by cl2.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 02:18AM

Well, happy vaping....but don't try to sell your unhealthy habits to me or my family, please.

I think Pooped has some very good advice. I never told my children that harmful cigarette smoking, drinking and driving, drugs (including marajuana, which spaced-out their cousin, until he was unempolyable) were against any "holy commandments." I didn't make it into a power struggle. I didn't give a mandate, for them to rebel against. Like Pooped and his father, I appealed to their common sense, logic, love of science, and their own observations.

The facts about these substances are REAL, folks. Even my little grandchildren know about the health consequences.

My children were also athletic, which made them even more determined to be healthy and at their competitive best. They run marathons, and tri-athelons, ski, and rock climb, and drive on freeways with their children in their cars. Can you do those things while on the above substances? (Even tobacco-smoking can cause car accidents, when the driver is busy opening the pack, lighting-up, fussing about the ashes, etc. It also causes employees to be less productive, because of all the cigarette breaks.)

The bottom line is that life is better without unnecessary substances (unless your doctor prescribes them).

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 02:44AM

I think Pooped has provided some sound advice. I also think many kids, for whatever reason, have access to more cash than is good for them. Whether the money is being handed to them or they're earning it, too much disposable income isn't beneficial to a kid who isn't yet a legal adult. For that matter, it's probably not beneficial to an eighteen-year-old, either, but there's less a parent can do about it, and it's also in some ways a really nice problem to have, Even if my one of my kids has a job and earns money as a minor, I will exercise the right to make him or her (I have one of each) bank anything in excess of what I think is good for him or her to have as spending money. I would be open to letting them take some out for major purchases, but not to carry around and snort.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 10:46AM

and my kids are very well aware of my thoughts on the subject of smoking, drinking, drugs. My family has very addictive personalities and most people thought I'd become an alcoholic if I ever tried alcohol. Maybe in the bad years of my life, but I drink alcohol now and then now and I've never become addicted. I'm too cheap. I have better things to spend my money on.

My daughter, who is now TBM, smoked marijuana when she was 14. I had no idea. Her good mormon friends (and my daughter didn't go to church) introduced her to marijuana and cutting classes. AND she knew me well enough to know and I trusted her, that if she called me to give her an excuse for a class she cut, I would and I did, and she graduated in the top of her class and she graduated with honors from college.

My son has other issues in terms of anxiety and depression. He was doing well UNTIL his wife left him. I completely get why he did what he did. He worked full time at the time and that is how he bought his drugs. I couldn't figure out where his money was going to, but he didn't live here and I didn't see him that often. I don't stick my nose in their business. I don't go to their apartments and check up on them.

So I've had people tell me I should use tough love on my son and where would he be if I did? On the streets. My son will NEVER be on the streets as long as I'm alive (and my daughter has promised me that he won't be if I'm dead).

I was a single mother who raised 2 amazing children and they have been through HELL. I'd like to challenge anyone here to go through what they have been through. My son now works full time still for the people he has worked for for years and they ADORE HIM. They've pretty much adopted him. They support him and love him, too. He has come SO FAR and I didn't have to put him in rehab as he knew I couldn't afford it. He got off drugs and alcohol all by himself.

So it really irritates the hell out of me when I see people say things like they do. My son is alive and is off hard drugs and alcohol because of marijuana and you know who used to buy it when I had money? I did. It changed his life and I'd give it to him every day if it gives him a life. And it does.

Do I like that he vapes it? No. He'd prefer edibles and he uses them when he can get them. But we live in Utah. My brilliant therapist (look him up, mydocdave) told me that marijuana is the drug of the future for mental health.

I have a niece and nephews and 2 brothers who smoke. My boyfriend's dad smoked all his life and he lived to 92. I posted about him the other day.

When I'm in perfect health, then I can judge. My cousin died of lung cancer at age 37. Her husband now has the same exact type of lung cancer and he is 62 and he is dying. And they never smoked and they never vaped.

We don't see the government stopping cigarettes from being sold. People are dying every day from that. People die every day from driving down the street. But we don't stop people from driving cars. I love the judgemental attitude here.

I'm in shock at the attitudes of some of you.

And P.S., both of my children are thin and both of them work out every day and eat really well. If marijuana is what it takes for my son to LIVE, then so be it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2019 10:47AM by cl2.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 10:56AM

Have lived the perfect lives and raised your children to be perfect.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 01:23PM

Perfect life? Hell, no! I've whined plenty, here. I do give credit for my kids for overcoming having their father completely abandon them, when they were ages 7-13. Before that, he verbally abused them, and hit them with coat hangers. We had no money, and they worked when they were old enough to babysit, do yard work, and have a paper route. They have worked all their lives, and put themselves through Community College then the U of Utah, and have great careers, children and houses of their own, now. They have had good health, except for sports injuries and the usual diseases. My children were the ones who led me out of the cult. They were physically abused by some Mormon leaders in our ward. My family lived far away, my parents were old and died early on, and my ex-husband's TBM family were extremely dysfunctional. Their grandfather and Two of their cousins committed suicide. I did have a university degree and job experience, but when my husband left, I had no job, and had to find work, and struggle from the ground up. I have a painful chronic, incurable disease, which comes and goes with remissions, and have done better than those patients who have relied on pain-killers, according to the doctors. Most can't hold down jobs, and my condition is listed as an official "disability", but I've never been able to collect disability compensation, because I've made too much money. I also have PTSD, because of abuse and torture in childhood. No--my life was/is not perfect--not anywhere near perfect.

My children deserve credit for being basically normal (with normal growing pains and harmless, short-lived rebellions) good people, street-wise, loving and kind to others, good parents, honest, having a good work ethic, etc. Give people credit!

So--yes--human beings are more resilient than you think!

We can often do the impossible. I never had confidence, and so many days I would think, "I can't do this!" but I had no choice. It was a labor of love, and no sacrifice at all. The only thing I do regret is my association with the Mormon cult, and all the people who said I couldn't support my children or raise them successfully "without a man." Married people, or people living together, etc. resent happy single people--I get it.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: October 15, 2019 10:44AM

that happened about your posts and someone else's posts. I won't point it out. I've noticed it for years.

So my kids didn't turn out perfect like yours.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2019 11:17AM by cl2.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 03:29PM

I'm not sure who here claims to have lived a perfect life or to have raised perfect children. I certainly don't qualify on either account. I'm probably a marginally functioning adult at best. Neither of my kids has even reached bona fide kindergarten, so the verdict is still out on them.

All I said is that many kids have access to more money than is in their best interests. It certainly wasn't intended as an indictment against the parenting of anyone here. How in hell would I know how much money any other poster's kids had as adolescents?

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 12:33PM

Vaping is relatively inexpensive. It’s costs about £10 a week maximum and that’s if you do it a lot. Compare that to smoking where if you even just smoke 10 a day you’re looking at a minimum over £40 a week.
I didn’t know you could vape marijuana!
Of course it’s ideal for people not to vape, but it’s hardly a massive deal. It’s known to be 95% healthier than smoking, so the focus should be on cutting smoking, the worlds biggest killer. As someone else pointed out there is only anxiety over this because it is new.
There is not a great deal of evidence that this is particularly unhealthy. So these extreme comments are in my mind a bit unjustified. Vaping helps people give up smoking and harder drugs: in these cases it’s a good thing. I went through trauma a few years ago and started smoking again; I couldn’t quit so I started vaping. Do I think I’d be better not doing it? Sure, but the benefits to me right now outweigh the minimal risks. Some of these comments here feel a bit judgmental. People have their reasons. To comment harshly on anyone that has an addiction is very mormon like. It’s a step further on something less harmful such as vaping.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 07:21PM

Physicians say that it's safer than smoking, but I don't think that all of the consequences of vaping are yet known.

All parents can do is talk to and reason with their kids. Both of my parents managed to convince my brother and me to never smoke. My brother taught me how to evaluate risk. You hope that you can get through to kids, but it's not always successful. And sometimes it goes the other way. After many years of effort, I got my mom to wear a seatbelt!

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Posted by: nolongerangry ( )
Date: October 12, 2019 11:32AM

There is no reason why any one needs to smoke or vape. Think about it, why would someone need to start smoking, ever? It is just another scam like everything in life.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: October 12, 2019 03:29PM

There are many things no one necessarily NEEDS to do. No one needs to overeat and no one needs to drink to excess, for example. Adults may choose for themselves what they enjoy enough to deal with risks associated with any given practice.

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Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: October 12, 2019 04:41PM

I agree with Summer and know what she’s saying.As a lot of new things come out, in this case, vaping ;you don’t know the long term consequences ,until after it’s tried or used by more people.
The same thing with the pain drug vioxx, before that went off the market.
AIDS was new here , when it first came out, so we had to learn from that.
A lot of new meds came out as a result.
Hopefully, they’ll find a safe source to vape.
Some of the vaping cases are in a certain area, maybe from the same source or used the same ingredients.
I know that Massachusetts ( I think, or one of the other states around it) had problems, but I think some states, like NH haven’t had a lot of reported problems yet.
I’m hoping that it helps the vaping industry, on which method has problems, and which don’t yet.

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: October 13, 2019 05:43AM

That’s true about location. It’s also only in the US; no cases in the uk yet. The additional problem is that vaping liquids are not regulated. Supposedly it is just water, nicotine and flavouring, but manufacturers don’t have to list ingredients, and flavourings can contain anything and the additional argument is that flavourings are not meant to be inhaled.
At present vaping liquids are not taxed, like tobacco and alcohol. Presumably once tobacco sales go down and vaping liquid sales go up sufficiently enough, they will be taxed, and perhaps then they will be regulated too.
It’s not something I plan on doing forever. I don’t do it for fun. It’s a stop gap thing to stop me from smoking during a stressful time. My lungs cleared up a great deal when I stopped smoking.
Why people would start doing this just for fun when they didn’t already smoke seems silly. But then why does anyone start smoking? It’s silly, but you try it, and then you’re addicted quite quickly.
Nicotine addiction is like wearing a tight pair of shoes all the time. Inhaling the nicotine is like taking of the uncomfortable shoes for a while. And with vaping you can do it more, and without harming anyone else.
So I don’t think it’s great. I just don’t think it’s terrible either. My only issue on this board over substance addiction discussions is the black and white, seemingly judgmental comments I sometimes see. Often extreme views like this are based on fear, and some ignorance, and it just reminds me of mormons.

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Posted by: Mother Who Knows ( )
Date: October 13, 2019 06:16AM

I admit to ignorance of what it's like to be addicted to cigarettes, personally.
.
That said, I had an aunt and also a best friend who were chain smokers. They couldn't go without a cigarette for more than an hour, and they bacame nervous and irritable, and the only thing that would calm them down was another cigarette. So, I guess it's only observation, but that does present some knowledge. Both women died of lung cancer, BTW, and participating in trying to help and comfort them in their last days is an experience and knowledge I have gained on the subject of smoking--second-hand.

I don't think I'm ignorant of the scientific facts, and health issues, related to smoking. Most people--since the days that John Wayne died of cigarette smoking--are not ignorant of those facts. Kids are taught this in elementary school.

There are exceptions. My best friend's father lived to be 90, and he was a chain smoker all his life. My friend is an only child, and I took turns sitting with her father, while he died of emphysema, which is a horrible way to die, at any age. Yeah, I have FEAR, and it's justified. My friend has lung damage, and asthma, and is prone to get pneumonia, and her doctor says it's a result of breathing her father's second-hand smoke when she was a little girl. Smokers care more about having their cigarettes, than they do about the health of their own children, or do you suppose these people are "ignorant"?

Being "ignorant" is not an excuse that is acceptable, in this age of information.

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: October 13, 2019 06:26AM

No I don’t think people are ignorant on the health effects of smoking or other addictions. Of course not. What I’m referring to (and not necessarily on this thread) is people who don’t know what it’s like to have an addiction and how difficult it is to quit.
So, as with smoking, people who have a nicotine addiction but do care about their health, now have the (probably better) option of vaping.

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Posted by: Screen Name ( )
Date: October 13, 2019 07:48AM

Vaping will very soon be banned for sale, distribution and use in the USA.

Altria is now ramping up to dump their product on the Philippines.

Such is the nobility of American titans of business.

And no one will try to stop this pure evil from occurring.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/12/investing/vaping-flavored-ecigarettes-ban-altria-juul/index.html

See also:

https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c779djgpgv8t/vaping

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: October 13, 2019 08:22AM

I know that people feel strongly, but it is using words such as “evil” which I was referring to in my previous comments.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: October 13, 2019 04:21PM

I don't practice pulmonary medicine, but I'm affiliated as a thoracic surgeon with a pulmonary medicine practice, and hear a lot. I agree with all who have said that while vaping seems to be significantly less damaging than is smoking, the verdict is not yet in.

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: October 14, 2019 12:05AM

The basic problem is our society considers it a good thing to use mind altering substances to have fun or relieve anxiety. Which chemical is used it less important than this underlying attitude.

Kids watch adults use socially or legally accepted nicotine or caffeine or alcohol to feel better, and they're going to look for something with which to mess with their brain, whether it's glue or paint thinner or vaping or whatever.

We teach them that using chemicals on their brain is fun.

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Posted by: LJ12 ( )
Date: October 14, 2019 02:32AM

Agreed. And this is normal for society.

I couldn’t wake up without my coffee though, and that’s one thing I don’t regret....

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Posted by: Eric3 ( )
Date: October 14, 2019 07:23PM

"It's awfully sad that kids of this age would choose to risk their health."

1. The product is addictive, and engineered to be so. Addiction is not all about choice.

2. Kids don't fully understand that, nor do they fully see risks down the road.

3. The product is designed to appeal to kids: candy flavors, easy to conceal.

4. The product is aggressively marketed to kids: advertising, social media, product placement. Marketing works.

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