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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 04:07PM

I was just listening to a Sam Harris Waking Up Podcast about White Supremacy and his guest, Author, Historian and Professor, Kathleen Belew, makes a connection between ideas of the apocalypse in American history/culture and white supremacy.
She doesn't specifically mention "Latter Day Saints" but their scriptures are definitely far more white supremacist than any other religions scriptures and Joseph's Myth is definitely an apocalyptic narrative.

https://samharris.org/podcasts/169-omens-race-war/

In this episode of the Making Sense podcast, Sam Harris speaks with Kathleen Belew about the white power movement in the United States. They discuss white supremacy, white nationalism, white separatism, the militia movement, “The Turner Diaries,” the connection between the white power movement and war, the significance of Ruby Ridge and Waco, the Christian Identity movement, the significance of “leaderless resistance,” the failures of the justice system in prosecuting white power crimes, and other topics.

Kathleen Belew is a historian and the author of Bring the War Home: The White Power Movement and Paramilitary America. She is currently an Assistant Professor of History at the University of Chicago and a Fellow at the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences, Stanford University. Kathleen specializes in the recent history of the United States, examining the long aftermath of warfare.

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Posted by: Concrete Zipper ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 04:19PM

Let's say that Mormonism is still struggling to overcome its white supremacist roots.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 04:47PM

Yes, but if they were to renounce racism they'd have to acknowledge the fraudulent nature of the BoM.

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Posted by: Concrete Zipper ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 05:19PM

Hence the struggle. :-)

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 05:42PM


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Posted by: Bert ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 04:58PM

Whats the difference between a KKK member and a Mormon?

The Mormon wears their secret white underwear under their clothes.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 05:34PM

Bert Wrote:
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> The Mormon wears their secret white underwear
> under their clothes.

And their white supremist clothing covers their little heads and not their big ones.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: October 10, 2019 10:38PM

Back when Blacks were given the priesthood, some people took a whole page of the newspaper to sign a petition to not allow this to happen. Some people left the church over it.

My dad was a bigot. I have to admit. I think his generation was more than ours is by far. He didn't have a problem with blacks and the priesthood. He thought that was fine. He wanted me to marry someone white. I had a roommate who married someone Japanese. It is a guy who my dad knew well and really liked, but he told me he was glad I wasn't marrying someone Japanese. BUT my dad was the one who told me that my husband didn't choose to be gay, that he was born that way.

But I saw a lot of it in Utah when I was young. Very few Blacks in Utah especially when I was young.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 09:40AM

Black people will be servants in heaven.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 10:29AM


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Posted by: Ted ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 09:53AM

If there is ever a big white elephant in the room it's this...that mormonism at it's roots, now, and then - will always be white supremist and racist to it's core. It doesn't matter how many African Americans celeb's they sucker to have sing in the Mo-tab, how many token Asian's they have in the Area 70, how many Polynesian coaches the have at BYU, or how many Indians they adopt - they will always be racist through and through. Stick a fork in them - they're racist.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 01:52PM

Many good-hearted White mormons encourage us darkies to be really, really good so that we can earn a remission from the curse of darkie skin tones that we 'earned' in the pre-existence due to an insufficient application to the accumulation of ghawdly merit badges...

If I'm good, I, too, can be blessed with Nordic skin, and limp, blond hair.

It's good to dream...

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 10:03AM

Christianity and Judaism are white supremacist organization if they hold to Genesis chapter 9. Jappeth shares in the glory of Shem, Ham gets the curse and is the father of the cannanites. The two favored sons (particularly Shem) are gods gift to humanity.

Since mormonism is an offshoot of these two world religions yes it's a white supremacist organization.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 11:17AM

Misery loves company.

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Posted by: Concrete Zipper ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 12:19PM

Genesis 9 doesn't mention race or skin color. Equating the Curse of Ham/Canaan with white supremacy is not justified from the text.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham#Misconception,_racism,_and_slavery

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 01:06PM

That is ridiculous.

The OT states many, many times that the chosen people are the Jews: not any other group. Whether you consider Jews white or not (labels that are themselves genetically nonsensical), no other people are covered by the Abrahamic covenant. So if the OT is racist, it is "Jewish supremacist."

White supremacists who try to hijack the OT are illiterate.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 02:41PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> White supremacists who try to hijack the OT are
> illiterate.

Isn't that what Joseph Smith did?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 02:48PM

House of Israel! All twelve tribes plus the Levites who labor amongst us. You, Lot's Wife, are adopted into the house of Israel, while I, a humble Lamanite, am the Real Deal, with my real ideal dealie.

...which I humble say in Jesú's name, aaaameeeen.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 02:56PM

I'm going to add a point about history. You can't logically say that Ham's descendants were both Canaanites and black. Why? Because the Canaanites were not black, and Blacks were not Canaanites.

The Canaanites were named after--wait for it--Canaan, where the Hebrews lived. The two groups were genetically and linguistically identical. The Hebrews/Jews separated from their Canaanite relatives and neighbors by choosing a new religion between 1,000 and 400 BCE. That is the sole difference.

There is not in the Bible a single passage describing the inhabitants of Canaan as black.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 11, 2019 03:30PM

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Christianity and Judaism are white supremacist
> organization if they hold to Genesis chapter 9.
> Jappeth shares in the glory of Shem, Ham gets the
> curse and is the father of the cannanites. The two
> favored sons (particularly Shem) are gods gift to
> humanity.

Uhhhh...Jews come in all colors, from extremely black (Ethiopian Jews, of which there are many, plus: black Jews ancestrally down through at least the latitudes of Madagascar and Uganda)....

....through all of the myriad variations of brown (including Asians and those descended from Asians, such as the Chinese Jews and the Indian subcontinent Jews and all of their descendants)....

....as well as a numerically huge, and historically primary, Sephardi ("Hispanic," more or less) presence.

Sephardim are, categorically, one-third of the three main Jewish groups worldwide:

1) Sephardim (have some genetic, cultural, or geographical connection to the Iberian Peninsula and/or Northern Africa).

2) Ashkenazim (mostly Europeans of all kinds, from way up in the northernmost global regions south to the Mediterranean, including many European "Asians" from the general areas of what are now the different "stans" and what are now, or recently were, Russian-governed or Chinese-governed areas).

3) Mizrahim (Jews from primarily Arab, or Arab-influenced, lands).

It is also important to keep in mind that anyone of ANY racial or ethnic group can become a Jew through conversion.

Many of the ancient groups of Jews above initially entered the Jewish people through conversion, from ancient times to right now, this moment, in time.

Others of ancient (and contemporary, for that matter) Jewish ancestry entered the Jewish people the more common way: birth to a Jewish woman--with (according to Jewish law) the racial, ethnic, religious, or national identity of the biological father having nothing to do with that child's Jewish reality, as well as nothing to do with the circumstances of that newborn's conception. If a child is born to a Jewish mother, that child (according to Jewish law) is a Jew. Period.

Race, dating back to the very beginnings of Judaism, has not, and, with some probable minority of exceptions here and there along the way, never has had anything to do with whether a given person is a Jew or not.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2019 03:55PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: anonculus ( )
Date: October 12, 2019 01:48PM

Wonderful reply Tevai.

"Race, dating back to the very beginnings of Judaism, has not, and, with some probable minority of exceptions here and there along the way, never has had anything to do with whether a given person is a Jew or not."

As far as I can tell, no boy has ever been born without a foreskin. Even if you are born of a Jewish mother, you don't automatically inherit "the covenant". As you mentioned, there has always been a provision for conversion available to anyone. This should be evidence enough that Judaism is not genetic/racial.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 12, 2019 02:14PM

Agreed. It is a wonderful reply.

In the ancient Near East there were few places in which race meant much. To the extent that Jews considered themselves the "chosen people" and above gentiles, Samaritans, Canaanites, etc., that "supremacy" was not racially based.

To take the story of Noah--a recycled Mesopotamian myth of a global deluge that is archaeologically unsustainable--and distort it to support white racism, or any sort of racism, is risible. We are to believe that "races" evolved within several centuries of a 3,000 BCE flood; that the Canaanites were black despite their Semitic language, their Semitic culture, and the fact that Jewish Canaanites were not. Which leads to the basic problem that the word "Semite" derives from the word Shem, meaning the son of Noah whom modern racists believe fathered the Caucasian race. How could the Canaanite ancestors of the Jews and the Arabs simultaneously be the white descendants of Shem and the black descendants of Ham?

The modern interpretation of that Biblical verse to support white supremacy merely indicates that those who subscribe to that ideology are as illogical as they are illiterate.

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