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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: November 02, 2019 11:21PM

In PTBarnum's MIL thread, two posters mentioned believing family members who were active alcoholics, and one mentioned a relation who had a cocaine problem. I'm interested in people's experiences with TBMs who maintained an active LDS ward life (held callings, went to temple, spoke at F&T, etc.) while abusing booze and dope.

I know that antidepressant use is high among Mormons; also there's a lot of opiate problems out there (prescription and otherwise). I'm not asking about that. Nor am I talking about Jack Mormons who consider themselves LDS, but don't pretend to practice or believe in it.

I'm curious about TBMs who seriously abuse booze and street drugs.

Do they have chronic, or episodic addictions?
Do they regard it as a sin, or somehow rationalize it? Dismiss, Deny it, what?
Do they admit to lying on their TR interviews?
What lengths do they go to, to hide it?
Most importantly, how do they reconcile their CoJCoLdS membership with their habit?

What do you have to share?

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Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: November 03, 2019 12:51AM

One of my TBM BFFs can't get through the day without a couple of glasses of wine. Her Mormon parents were alcoholics and smokers. My friend is also is okay with premarital sex and confesses all to the bishop. He does not threaten her with excommunication but tells her to go ahead and keep paying tithing even though she isn't worthy to go to the temple. She makes six figures so her tithing money is important to LDS Inc.

When I was TBM I followed all the rules. I don't know how believing members can break all the rules and still bear their testimonies of the "truthfulness of the gospel." I just don't get it.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: November 03, 2019 10:16AM

She makes six figures so her tithing money is important to LDS Inc.
It is forever and always about the money!
It is also about the greed gene dominance in the society

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 03, 2019 01:55AM

Mormons : Compartmentalization

any questions?

the CULTure is steeped in a high focus on appearances, yes, it's an obsession with many of them, because it's at the heart of approval with the 'in crowd'.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2019 01:57AM by GNPE.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: November 03, 2019 08:12AM

from some of my friends from work.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: November 03, 2019 10:37AM

It is only a problem for you if you wish to change and are unable to do so

If you do not wish to change it is not your problem!

If someone else wants you to change and you do not then they own the problem. Your drinking is not their problem. Their problem is that they want you to change and you won't do what they want!

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: November 03, 2019 10:49AM

My dad drank coffee all my life. His parents did, too. My grandfather chewed tobacco from the time he served in WWII. I don't even know if he was married in the temple, but probably. My grandparents weren't very active after my grandfather was released for his tobacco habit from being SS president. He would drive my grandmother to church to play the organ. Then they released her after 25 years and they never went unless a baby was being blessed, etc. They never told her they were releasing her.

I worried about coffee, but then I realized as I got older than at our family parties, my uncle served alcohol. My mother never drank, but the rest of the adults did. Maybe my aunt didn't drink, but I just don't know. My dad drank alcohol most of my life, but he never brought it home, so I don't know how much he drank. He also picked up the habit of chewing tobacco, but we only found that out as my nephew worked on the farm with him and told us in the last years of his life.

My dad did go to the temple a few times when he was quite old and he went to my wedding and my sister's wedding, but none other than I'm aware of. I don't have a clue what my dad said at his TR interviews.

My uncle was eventually called as a bishop and then a SP, and as far as I know, he stopped drinking and smoking. My very active mormon aunt said he was a lot more fun before he found religion (she told me this 3 times in their elderly years).

My sister and 2 brothers I would consider alcoholic. One brother binges on weekends and my sister drinks everyday after work quite a bit. My other brother is disabled and has been considered an alcoholic for a long time, but he drinks less than he used to, BUT they all left the church when they were teenagers. BUT they still believe some things. Go figure.

And I'll go ahead and talk about opiate abuse by my husband's sister. Ever since I've known her. I didn't realize what her medications were until I started doing medical transcription. She had bottles and bottles of them. She still takes them all the time and is certifiably nuts. All his sisters are. Just in different ways. This one pretends to be normal and preaches a lot. Especially on fb. I call her on her BS.

Also, temple attendance was different when my parents were young. People got married in the temple, but very seldom ever went back unless another wedding came along. It was not a big deal. Temples were few and far between and many people had to travel a significant distance to go to the temple, which is why they build so many now. MORE TITHING. My mother's parents supposedly didn't pay tithing as they were too poor. Both were deaf and he was a farmer. My mother told me they gave them TRs.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/03/2019 10:52AM by cl2.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: November 04, 2019 04:33AM

OK--here's the answer from a very wealthy, bona fide Mormon crook--my home teacher! His company's "bankruptcy" made the SL Tribune, with a memorable photo of his garage full of about 20 very high-priced vintage cars. Two of our neighbors who worked for him were conned into mortgaging their homes to "save the business", and had to move out of the ward, homeless, with no job, no retirement, nothing.

I got this Home Teaching message straight from the horse's mouth:

He read us an article out of the Ensign. Essentially, it said that good deeds could make up for, and balance out, the bad deeds! Oh yes, if Mormons "bank" their temple hours, their callings, their tithing and donations, the Lord will be more willing to forgive their little mistakes and slip-ups. He said that was the beauty of "The Gospel", that it offered him a way to stay worthy!

I once saw this man ring my Mormon widow neighbor's doorbell, and run away. A minute later the widow called me and told me that someone had left an envelope on her doorstep with $200 cash in it, out of the blue. (Is this what Mormons refer to as "fire insurance?)

This man is in a different line of work, now, but is still dishonest in his dealings with people. He lies in his advertising, he makes false promises to his clients, he cheats as much as he can (and just goes ahead and pays the penalty fines, over and over again), and he still goes to the temple with his wife, regularly. He's never been a bishop or higher, though, so you have to give the Mormons credit for that.

It's the same for drugs. My RS president sister-in-law was hooked on Vicodin, and she thought there was nothing wrong with that, because she could still be the ward chorister, and get her children to church on time, and go to the temple with my brother on "temple night." In fact, she felt righteously superior to my mother, and would berate her for drinking coffee. Her children were disasters, but she blamed everyone else for that.

Yes, compartmentalization, and delusion.

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Posted by: idleswell ( )
Date: November 08, 2019 11:41AM

LDS teachings stress all or nothing thinking. A member is either "worthy" or "unworthy" without much discretion. Marginal progress toward a goal isn't recognized as an accomplishment. Harm reduction doesn't register.

The results among the LDS membership are 2 fold:
1. members won't seek help voluntarily; or,
2. members judgmental attitudes against those that struggle.

Members with substance problems can be in denial - denial to themselves, their family and their church. If a confession could direct them to a helpful program, they won't take that step because the consequences of total social or family destruction are too grave to contemplate. So problems linger until they become unmanageable.

What happens when members seek Church assistance? They receive a message that they are "unworthy." If they were only more faithful, they wouldn't have this substance problem. Their bishop likely has no experience with substance addiction. He may not understand that religious dictates won't overcome. A relapse is only a day away - yet they want eternal commitments?

A sister in our stake hoped that involving her son in the gospel would "cure" his drug abuse. The message the son received when he relapsed was that he was "unworthy" of God's (conditional) love. Anyone could easily conclude such from talks from the Prophet and other General Authorities and the conduct of local Church leaders and programs.

The son killed himself after an episode of drug use. Since he wasn't making progress in the Church, he saw no path to success. Spiritual death became physical death.

When this suicide entered discussion among members, the Stake President called a general meeting of all members of the stake. His message: the Church was in no way responsible for the actions of a troubled man who acted against Church teachings by taking his own life.

Inconsistent much? I can assure you that if this man had overcome his addiction (or learned to conceal it better?) the Church would have been front and center claiming him as one of the "fruits of the gospel." Sorry, Mr. Stake President if you want to play in the "salvation game," then you own all the outcomes pro and con.

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: November 08, 2019 12:21PM

I feel sorry for them, as kicking the habit is very difficult.
As far as it goes reg. the church: So What!?

All one can do is do one's best to be what he or she wants to be (as long as this doesn't harm anyone else).

My brother kicked the smoking and drinking habit, but goes 1 or 2 times a day to different church basements to stand up and say, "I am an alcoholic"--no matter how long they have been sober--and tells their own story. (By the way, he hasn't gone to an LDS church every sense I can remember.)

The LDS church does not have any such program to help such people (as least that I know of).

I do know that my brother, out of dis-pare, was going to kill himself with his own gun until the family held an intervention for him--after which he stayed several months in a veterans hospital to "dry" out, and after this stayed in a "half-way" house (with other persons such as themselves). Also, they are not allowed to get a 'free ride', by anyone giving them things, but are to do for themselves--including "dumpster dive" (which means dive into a dumpster behind stores, to see what they can find--food, clothing, whatever).

While he was in this state of being, I did give him a carton of cigarettes (another bad health habit he was finally able to kick).

Alcoholics freely put the "Blue Book" in library's, whether or not they ask if they can. I saw one in a thrift store with a price on it--until I told them it is not allowed to sell them--they are always for free (paid for by the group as a whole).

My best wishes goes out to those who struggle with these health problems.

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