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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 06:47AM

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/11/05/mormon-family-killed-by-mexican-drug-cartel/4162955002/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/american-mum-bravely-saved-baby-20814202


At least 5 members of Mormon family killed in brutal Mexican drug cartel attack
MARK STEVENSON, ASSOCIATED PRESS | ASSOCIATED PRESS
4:53 a.m. CST Nov. 5, 2019

MEXICO CITY — Relatives say at least five U.S. citizens, including four children, who live in a religious community in northern Mexico were killed in a shooting attack they suspect may have been a case of mistaken identity by drug cartel gunmen.

As many as 13 other members of La Mora — a decades-old settlement in Sonora state founded as part of an offshoot of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints — were missing after the attack on a convoy of three SUVs carrying community members, said a relative who asked not to be named for fear of reprisals.

The relative said he had located the burned-out, bullet-ridden SUV containing the remains of his nephew's wife and her four children — twin 6-month old babies and two other children aged 8 and 10.

Authorities in Sonora state and the U.S. Embassy did not immediately respond to requests for comment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2019 06:55AM by anybody.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 08:21AM


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Posted by: McFly ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 01:20PM

I found this BBC article to be Very Very interesting.... I may be wrong, but it looks to me like they put in BOLD what is "important " to know. Is this becoming widespread?
Especially interesting when they put this in BOLD.
"never renounced polygamy in its scriptures" when speaking of the "mormon church...

Sad story though.

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 08:34PM

>I found this BBC article to be Very Very interesting.... I may be wrong, but it looks to me like they put in BOLD what is "important " to know

Except for that at the very beginning of the article and the subheadlines, all of the bold type are hyperlinks to other stories (notice the underlining).

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Posted by: morning anonymouse ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 08:54AM

After reading the Daily Mail coverage, I came away sensing that the people in this Mormon group think that being raped is worse than being incinerated or killed by bullets. (Something that has been stated on this Board previously.)

While I do not wish anyone to be raped, it seems that being burned to death in a vehicle is horrific torture and final.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 09:28AM

A baby survived, along with some other children that a 13-year-old hid in the bushes while he walked 14 miles to find help.

My cousin's husband was kidnapped by drug cartel in Mexico a few years ago. He was saved because of a note he forgot to take with him from the hotel room as to where he was supposed to go. Hotel employees were supposedly involved. He had gone there on business. The book he wrote was so shocking, I didn't move until I had read the whole thing.

Whether or not they feel that rape is worse than death, this is horrible. Mormons teach rape is worse than death. We were taught that as kids.

The national news keep saying "an offshoot of the MORMON church."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2019 09:31AM by cl2.

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 12:03PM

What was the name of the book your cousin wronte?

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 01:21PM

Most people don't know the history of the church and/or offshoots and still think of Mormonism per se as the "original" 19th century Brigham Young version.

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Posted by: Anon..... ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 09:45AM

This is obviously extremely tragic, and I cannot imagine the loss of my loved ones in such a violent way. Truly my heart goes out to them. I am left to wonder about a few things:

1) These offshoot Mormons believe in the power of the Book of Mormon, priesthood power and authority, holy ordinances that protect from fire (garmies), faith/repentance/baptism/holy ghost (the gospel), etc and etc. So how do they reconcile that Jesus, God, the Priesthood did come through for them and protect even their own children? I would pissed at God and Joseph Smith. It would almost be like they are not real.

2) Now I have seen documentary's on this offshoot of Mormons in Mexico before. They knew it was dangerous there...wondering why they didn't move out of there years ago? Will they move back to the US now? I don't think they are wanted there and probably will continue to be targets by the cartels.

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Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 10:09AM

Cute, perky women or men? I still remember one of my first missionaries. I had a minor crush on him. He was nice, perky, definitely cute. Sometimes those are the dangerous ones, attracting more investigators. That’s what the church thinks, especially the one’s getting assigned to Temple Square .
That was the old days though. People now a days aren’t as gullible.

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Posted by: evergreennotloggedin ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 10:10AM

One of the mothers killed was wearing a strapless top. It seems strange if they were mormons.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 10:23AM

evergreennotloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One of the mothers killed was wearing a strapless
> top. It seems strange if they were mormons.

I was pleasantly surprised when my friend and I picked up a couple of girls from the singles ward to go to the river/waterfall. Both wore a strapless top when we hiked down to the river. They wore them home as well. :D

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 12:09PM

The LeBarons have been living in Mexico for a long long time. They went there for the same reason a lot of mainstream Mormons (including the Romneys, and my ancestors, the Redds) went there -- so they could practice post-manifesto polygamy, which they were mandated to do. Camilla Kimball, Spencer Kimball's wife grew up in Mexico in a polygamous family. Eyring was her maiden name.

In my opinion, the LeBarons have every right to call themselves Mormon.

It has been years since an act of violence was committed by a LeBaron. These people are victims.

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Posted by: dumbmormons ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 10:24AM

How many were actually US citizens?

The murderous LeBaron clan has no qualms about killing people and now expect sympathy for it happening to them?

Will be interesting to see the facts come out.

And Nelson & Co wasted NO time denying they are "mormons".

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 10:33AM

That's a complex thing, and a lot of people think they have, but don't. It varies significantly depending upon the countries that a person pairs, or claims, as citizenship. So there's no telling for sure whether these people actually have it, or just claim it.

I guess it depends upon whether a person is eligible for a passport from each country, whether/where they vote and pay taxes, that sort of thing. Perhaps somebody with expertise can enlighten us.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 10:38AM

someone PLEASE wake me up when they can explain why citizenship and/or religion matter, those questions / information is absolutely irrelevant to a tragedy of a violent act/loss of life.

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Posted by: sbg ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 10:43AM

Exactly

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 10:41AM

Were they descendants of the MMM attackers?

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 11:00AM

It does bring the MMM to mind; the majority of those killed were also innocent women and children.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 11:47AM

This tragic event appears to have people in the news and on Twitter going off in all kinds of directions. We need facts regarding the motive.

One source said it could be cartels confusing them with other cartels (that doesn't seem likely to me).

One source said an American Ambassador had just visited the same Mexican state so a possible motive could be something against America. I don't know it this is true.

Once source said they are Mormon and the tweet from the POTUS laments the lost of Utah citizens. They were duel citizens but did they live in Utah? Another source said they were planning on moving to the Dakotas.

This is going to take some time to sort out the facts about his horrible tragedy. I am not sure if it had anything to do with religion, or nationality, or what. What I do suspect is that LDS PR is trying to figure out how to address this.

Does the church PR department distance themselves from this offshoot of their religion and claim they were NOT Mormon? If so, that could potentially look like they are correcting the POTUS tweet.

I'm sure the LDS church does not want attention that links them to the offshoot groups. However, do they want to jump in on the persecution claim that Mormons were targeted? In the past, the LDS church has complained when the news points out someone was Mormon, because other religions aren't singled out. Lately religion is singled out because the incidence of religious targeting has been on the rise. Will the church complain that the press pointed out the religion this time? The church PR folks are stuck in an awkward situation because the victims were the embarrassing kind of Mormons they want people to disassociate with them.

Twitter of course is demonstrating all kinds of confusion about them being Mormon and religious targeting. I hope the motive is determined so the LDS church PR can proceed with clean-up.

Whatever motive it was, be it robbery, nationalism revenge, religious persecution or whatever, this is horrible. No one should be harmed for their beliefs no matter how disagreeable the beliefs. My condolences to those poor families.

The cartels are a whole different issue that no doubt would be too political to discuss here.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 12:28PM

It would be terrible if we find out that they were killed because the believed that faith without works is insufficient in terms of being saved...

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Posted by: levantlurker ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 11:57AM

Sadly, this isn't the first time violence has flared up between the Mormon settlers in Mexico and local cartels. It likely won't be the last.

In 2009, Benjamin LeBaron was abducted from his home in Galeana and murdered. He had previously led a vigilante/crime-watch group called SOS-Chihuahua.

Vice has a good documentary on the subject - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpIyaIHsJbc

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 09:57PM

It's possible that it was a mistake, but this attack was too up front and personal.

Somebody wanted to send someone a message.

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Posted by: Space Pineapple ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 02:31PM

That's my guess too. This was way to specific to be an accident and there has been bad blood between the Lebarons and the cartels for a while now.

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Posted by: stillangry ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 11:59AM

Dagny wrote:
"No one should be harmed for their beliefs no matter how disagreeable the beliefs."

Yes they should. They harmed me and continue to harm me to this day because I am a resigned member. I was molsted at 5 and my molester is free to this day. I am always told how I am going to hell for not being an active member. I am intentionally left out of family functions. My TBM family has a 'better than you' attitude even though they deny it. I can't trust them plain and simple.

They Mormon cult is pure evil and active steps by the US Government should be taken to dismantle all parts of it.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 12:05PM

Yikes.
Violence is not the answer. Please get professional help.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 12:16PM

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yikes.
> Violence is not the answer. Please get
> professional help.


Bares Repeating!! (oops!)

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Posted by: stillangry ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 12:25PM

Perhaps not physical violence. But financial and mental yes.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 12:34PM

"Perhaps???"

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Posted by: Space Pineapple ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 02:32PM

The church appears to imploding all on its own.

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Posted by: Daphne ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 12:10PM

There are members of the LeBaron family living near Madison, Wisconsin. (Mom and three adult children) They own a very successful cleaning company (clean for my neighbor) and many of their workers are Hispanic. Family members frequently travel back and forth to Chihuahua and mentioned that their dad knew Mitt Romney.

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 12:13PM

My mom was born in Colonia Diaz making me another anchor baby just like Mitt.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 12:57PM

When George W Romney ran for president, his citizenship status was questioned, but as I recall, wasn't resolved in a court decision.

Mitt's mom Lenore was born in Logan, Ut, so reason suggests that he as her child was a U.S. Citizen, regardless of where he was born; therefore, I don't believe or understand that Mitt was an 'anchor baby' because his parents (dad George born in Mexico) were living in the U.S., didn't come here for giving birth to Mitt (or any of his sibs).

Consider the FACTS:

wiki says that George was born in 7/1907 in Mexico, came to the U.S. about 1920, incidental to the Mexican Civil War, which ended in/about 1920;

married to his (U.S. born) wife in 1931, was employed in Detroit starting in 1939 (or earlier)

Mitt was born in 1947, in Detroit, MI, not close to the Mexican border!

please check your FACTS before making assertions/assumptions!!!

I think the reasoning / rationale is that individuals born of a U.S. citizen mother are considered U.S. citizens when the parents (mom) was temporarily outside the U.S.; this may or may not be legally established.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2019 04:59PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: Phantom Shadow ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 08:07PM

My Dad and George R. went to LDS Jr. College the same year. They were on the Utah State JC championship basketball team together in the late 1920s.My Dad had some stories about George & Lenore, but at the time I wasn't interested enough to remember them. The citizenship question wasn't settled because Romney's campaign lost traction after his brainwashing comment.

Someone else who went to LDS high school when my parents were there was Rulon Jeffs. In fact, he lived in the neighborhood where I grew up.

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Posted by: Phantom Shadow ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 08:12PM

Prophet of Blood: The Untold Story of Ervil Lebaron and the Lambs of God Hardcover, November 1, 1981
by Ben Bradlee Jr. (Author), Dale Van Atta (Author)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/05/2019 08:13PM by Phantom Shadow.

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Posted by: Space Pineapple ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 02:33PM

I remember reading that one in the early 2000s. Disturbing story for sure. The LeBaron clan was, arguably, the most violent and screwed up Fundie group.

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Posted by: Joey Bagodonutz ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 10:04PM

How could something like this have happened?

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Posted by: stillangry ( )
Date: November 05, 2019 11:52PM

It is Mexico. Did you think it was all sugar and roses down there? I have never visited Mexico and even I know it is a pit.

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Posted by: Space Pineapple ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 02:34PM

stillangry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is Mexico. Did you think it was all sugar and
> roses down there? I have never visited Mexico and
> even I know it is a pit.

I've been there before, including Sonora. Parts are nice. I couldn't be paid to go there now though.

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Posted by: sbg ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 09:12AM

Current US Travel Advice for Sonora

Sonora state – Level 3: Reconsider Travel

Reconsider travel due to crime.

Sonora is a key location used by the international drug trade and human trafficking networks. However, northern Sonora experiences much lower levels of crime than cities closer to Sinaloa and other parts of Mexico.

U.S. government employees may not travel to:

The triangular region west of the Mariposa Port of Entry, east of Sonoyta, and north of Altar.
The district within Nogales that lies to the north of Avenida Instituto Tecnologico and between Periferico (Bulevar Luis Donaldo Colosio) and Corredor Fiscal (Federal Highway 15D), and the residential areas to the east of Plutarco Elias Calles.
The eastern edge of the state of Sonora, which borders the state of Chihuahua: all points along that border east of Federal Highway 17, the road between Moctezuma and Sahuaripa, and State Highway 20 between Sahuaripa and the intersection with Federal Highway 16.
All points south of Federal Highway 16 and east of Highway 15 (below Hermosillo), and all points south of Empalme.
In addition, U.S. government employees may not use taxi services in Nogales.

U.S. government employees may travel between the Nogales border crossing points of DeConcini and Mariposa in Nogales to and from Hermosillo during the day only on Highway 15D. U.S. government employees may stop in the towns of Santa Ana and Imuris and at restaurant/restroom facilities located along the highway.

U.S. government employees may travel to Puerto Peñasco via the Lukeville/Sonoyta crossing during daylight hours on Federal Highway 8, or by using Federal Highway 15 south from Nogales and east via Federal Highway 2 and State Highway 37 through Caborca during daylight hours. U.S. government employees may also travel directly from the nearest U.S. Ports of Entry to San Luis Rio Colorado, Cananea, and Agua Prieta, but may not go beyond the city limits.

Visit our website for Travel to High-Risk Areas.

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Posted by: Ted ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 09:19AM

Apparently the criminals there don't respect the gun laws. I don't know why they don't...maybe they have a problem with rules? In America though, our criminals would respect the rules so there's no problem.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 12:37PM

many people who possess guns here Don't obey the laws against using them, including police.

Should we end laws against speeding & DUI/DWI just because not all people obey them?


What about laws against murder or rape or theft? Should those also be abolished / abandoned?

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Posted by: stillangry ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 12:47PM

Please don't start this crap about police brutality. Fact: there would be no police shootings if the suspect just complied with the officer in the first place. Think before you say stupid things.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 01:25PM

Are you a biological male?

Because if you can't prove it, none of us have any reason to take you seriously--although we may have cause to lock you up as an "ultra-liberal" and "dangerous" threat to society.

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Posted by: stillangry ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 03:16PM

Try extreme right-wing.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 03:24PM

I'll let you in on a little secret:

I had already figured that out.

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Posted by: stillangry ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 03:30PM

I am really trying to loosen up and be more accepting. It is slow going and hard to do in today's climate. But I am making an effort in real life.

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Posted by: sbg ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 03:35PM

You are failing miserably here.

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Posted by: stillangry ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 03:36PM

All efforts take time.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 04:05PM

I'll take that as sincere and express my admiration.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 03:30PM

What about black man shot/killed IN HIS OWN APARTMENT bc officer thought it was hers? Isn't that Police Brutality?


Or the young man running away from police with no weapon; shot in back of head while fleeing?

look up Recent police brutality (I was a sworn officer, btw) in Google or Bing.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 12:31PM

From BizPacReview, a conservative site (link below):

"But while Mexican authorities have suggested that perhaps the cartel-linked gunmen had simply mistaken the family’s vehicles for the vehicles of the enemies they’d been targeting, evidence strongly suggests the perpetrators knew exactly what they were doing.

In an interview with CNN, Kendra Lee Miller, whose sister-in-law Rhonita Maria Miller died in the attack, claimed that those who were murdered on Monday were “not the first.”

'Miller told CNN her family has recently been threatened by cartels over where it can travel,' the outlet revealed on Tuesday.

Former Mexican Foreign Minister Jorge Castañeda reportedly added that the family has had conflicts with the cartels for awhile.

'They had stood up to the drug cartels and they did have certain frictions either with the cartels or with neighboring communities over water rights,' he said. 'Their long-standing tensions, and apparently the woman who was driving in the first car that was attacked was an activist. She was someone who was very active in her community, defending her family, her fellow members of the community against cartels, on the issue of water rights.'

He further noted that the family had been benefiting from the protection of local authorities since 2011, up until the nation’s government withdrew support earlier this year. The withdrawing of support seems to coincide with the beginning of radically far-left President Andrés Manuel López Obrador’s term in office, which began last December."

If the last paragraph is true, then it's a telling indictment of Obrador's "hugs, not bullets" approach. So much for Kumbaya.

Also worth noting is that the Mexican military recently lost a vicious street battle with a cartel, resulting in the release of two kingpens, including Ovidio Guzman, "El Chapo's" son.

Mexico also stated that one of the gunmen, in an armored SUV with several weapons, was arrested. He had two bound survivors of the attack in the vehicle.

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2019/11/06/armed-suspect-in-massacre-of-us-citizens-arrested-near-arizona-border-with-bound-gagged-hostages-849242

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 05:49PM

My belief is that the Le Barons were targeted. I think they knew they were in trouble, too. It sounds like the women and children were trying to get to a safe place.

I have to wonder at what point the Le Baron clan will come to the conclusion that Mexico is not working out for them?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 06:58PM

I suspect that an ever-increasing number of Mexicans are coming to the conclusion that Mexico isn't working out for them.

What would happen in Mexico if the US federal government legalized ALL recreational drugs and created a Federal Fun Drugs Administration? You know, the FFDA?

It would be in charge of watching over the quality control aspext of the importers & manufacturers of Fun Drugs, along with controlling the chain of distribution and retailing...

PLUS making sure the "if-you-die-from-an-overdose-you-owe-us-half-your-estate" tax is collected.

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Posted by: Space Pineapple ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 02:35PM

But the War on Drugs has been such a resounding success on both sides of the border. ;)

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Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: November 06, 2019 07:55PM

I read an article saying that this group was also associated w/the NVXM cult. They groomed young girls leaving the LaBaron Mormon cult

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 03:01AM

I can't find anything on them being associated with NVXM. If you have any info I would be interested to read it.

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Posted by: nonmo_1 ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 08:05AM

Tabloid link here - If I find a more reputable news source I will post it also -
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10289484/mexico-massacre-family-dark-history-links-nxivm-sex-cult-polygamous-manson/

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: November 07, 2019 07:59AM

https://www.thedailybeast.com/mexican-drug-cartels-vs-a-mormon-sect-behind-the-horrific-massacre-of-lebaron-american-moms-and-children


The group’s trials were the stuff of local lore long before drug cartels entered the frame. Over the past decade, however, leading members of the LeBaron community have distinguished themselves as outspoken opponents to the growth of cartel-related kidnappings, extortion and killings in Mexico.

In 2009, the LeBaron community made worldwide news with a harrowing stand against a cartel in Chihuahua, not far from the U.S. border. A 16-year-old member of the community named Erick LeBaron was kidnapped and held for a $1 million ransom by a local drug cartel. The community assembled and decided not to pay the ransom but to wage a public campaign to pressure the government to take action and secure Erick’s release. Miraculously, the teen was returned without a cent changing hands.

If, by standing up to narcos, the LeBarons had briefly inspired Mexico with hope, their refusal to submit also appeared to infuriate a local cartel leader. Jose “El Rikin” Escajeda, who lived scarcely eight miles away from the prosperous settlement of apple, pecan, and chili farms known as Colonia LeBaron, ordered a team of armed assailants to take revenge.

Two months after the dramatic kidnap standoff, Benjamin LeBaron, who was Erick’s older brother and a leader of the protest campaign that helped secure his release, was abducted from his home in Colonia LeBaron along with his brother-in-law Luis Carlos Widmar, who had come to help.

Both men were shot and their bodies found at the side of the road a short distance from the community with a message attached linking the killings to the family’s public calls for increased policing in the area. (Escajeda, the alleged ringleader of a drug-trafficking family that runs a 120-mile smuggling corridor along Mexico’s border with Texas, was soon arrested for the murders.)

Leaders of the LeBaron community have been among the most outspoken critics not only of cartel violence in Mexico but also of associated corruption within the law enforcement and military agencies tasked with quelling it.

In the aftermath of the 2009 murders, the LeBarons famously took up arms in violation of Mexican law and adopted military-style tactics to protect their community. Alex LeBaron, a brother of Benjamin’s who is a well-known state legislator in Chihuahua, told a news crew from Vice in 2012 that smuggling guns from the United States was “the only way to defend yourself.” (There is no indication that the women and children murdered on Monday were armed or protected by anyone with guns.)

Julián LeBaron, Benjamin and Alex’s brother, is a well-known activist who toured the country in 2011 with the Movement for Peace with Justice and Dignity, a group headed by the Mexican poet Javier Sicilia that publicly rejected the climate of lawlessness and fear fostered by organized crime.

The LeBarons have argued against laws in Mexico that make it difficult for citizens to obtain guns for self-defense. Eventually the Mexican government allowed them to set up armed citizens patrols. Federal authorities later set up a base and patrol inside the orderly community of Santa Fe-style houses that includes schools, parks, a basketball court, and a golf course.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2019 08:05AM by anybody.

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