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Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 02:10PM

So glad the students spoke up and reported the teacher, and that the teacher was immediately escorted out of the classroom. Just shows that students aren't putting up with that kind of crap, which is a good sign - especially in Utah.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 02:20PM

It sound like that teacher was really frothing at the mouth shaming the poor kid for being so proud and happy to get his dads. That is a very great thing be thankful for indeed.

I agree with heartbroken that the other students were great to speak up and do something about it.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 02:31PM

It was.a.substitute teacher.provided by Kelly.Services, not a regular teacher or a retired teacher who substitutes.. Kudos to the kids. It also sounds as if the school handled it correctly although they may need to review their standards and training for subs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2019 05:19PM by bona dea.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 02:53PM

I hate it when daily substitutes are called "teachers." Most are not qualified teachers, just minimally qualified warm bodies to babysit the kids for the day. Teachers generally leave packets of review work for such days because it's unrealistic to expect that your average sub will have any idea to teach. And to be fair, a new person coming into a class of 20 or 30 kids could not be expected to do much with them, anyway.

Long term subs are generally qualified teachers -- but not always.

I like to think that most public school teachers would know better than to make the kind of comments that this sub made.

By the way, one of the dads is internationally famous ballroom dancer Louis van Amstel. That is one lucky kid!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Van_Amstel

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 04:46PM

The districts I sub for prefer retired teachers such as myself. You have to have a college degree, pass a background check and complete an online course.That is The minimum. The district involved in this incident is not one I am familiar with. The article says they get subs from Kelly Services. I don't know what the requirements are with Kelly but they do provide replacements for all jobs, not just teaching.
You are right about babysitting. Even subs with a teaching certificate and years of experience are not competent in all subjects, especially if hired at the last minute.I certainly am not qualified in higher math, technical classes, band etc. We are expected to keep order, follow instructions, be politically correct and be able to handle emergencies etc. The teacher needs to have an assignment or movie that doesn't require advanced knowledge There is no excuse for this sub if this was reported accurately

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Posted by: stillanon ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 06:20PM

In Utah, about the only requirement for a sub is no felony convictions. That's about it. Plus, the district pays the $80.00/day. 17 year old Chick fil a workers make more than for less hours.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 06:48PM

In Salt Lake, Granite and the Catholic Diocese which are the places I have subbed, you need to complete an online course regularly,have a college degree, pass a background check. All three prefer subs to have teaching experience although it isnt required. I don't know about other districts, but I have jumped through all the hoops in those three.It used to be laxer, but there were issues of unqualified subs who couldn't handle classes,.One sub showed up high and offered the kids pot and there were cases of sexual abuse.
you are also wrong about pay. I get $110.00 a day at Granite since In used to teach there and $95.00 a day in SLC. That is from 7:15 to 2:10 and 7:30 to 2:30.That isn't bad when I only have to pass out a work sheet and walk around the room occasionally or show a video.There is a break of over an hour as well as a 1/2 hour lunch. Pretty easy if you get a good school



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2019 09:56AM by bona dea.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 01:40AM

Generally the nicer school districts can have more requirements to be a substitute teacher. In the beginning of my career, I subbed for a nice district for two years. They preferred certified teachers, but most subs were just moms and retirees with a high school diploma or AA degree, trying to pick up some extra money. They do have to pass a background check. One advantage to being a substitute is that you can pick the days you want to work.

Pay for substitutes can vary a lot from district to district. In my experience, districts tend to keep the pay at the same rate for years until they have trouble getting substitutes.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 03:47AM

True and I was speaking only of the districts I specifically named

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Posted by: stillanon ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 12:56PM

Alpine School District is a very nice District. Mostly new schools in 10 year old or newer neighborhoods. Includes Eagle Mountain, Lehi, parts of Draper and Saratoga Springs. Lots of wealthy people and high priced homes. They're just cheap bastards that don't value or fund education. It's even worse in rural Utah districts.

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Posted by: stillanon ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 04:06PM

No, I am not wrong. If you'd have bothered to read the OP's story you wouldn't make foolish statements. A decent teacher would know better. From the article;

"Those who substitute make $70 a day if they’re unlicensed and $80 if they are. The district recently raised the compensation for each by $10.
Some have cited that low pay as the reason many do not become substitutes and why sometimes the best candidates aren’t driven to the profession."

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 06:35PM

You were wrong in saying that Utah only requires a background check and pays 70 per day. Some dp districts require and pay more. That is a fact I read the article a couple of days ago in FB and did't read it again. Your post didn't reference the article anyway so I could distinguish whether it was your opinion or if you were referring to this ar ticle or something else



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2019 10:42PM by bona dea.

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Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: December 06, 2019 09:49AM

Throwing on a video ? Makes me wonder if you were that lazy when teaching .Don't hurt yourself .

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Posted by: ragnar ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 12:34PM

summer wrote: "Most are not qualified teachers, just minimally qualified warm bodies to babysit the kids for the day."

I'm writing a book regarding needed reforms of the U.S. education system.

I'm discussing the 'substitute teacher' topic in the chapter I'm writing right now.

The chapter title: "Warm Bodies."

(Great minds think alike...)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2019 12:37PM by ragnar.

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Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: December 06, 2019 09:55AM

An idea for reform of the public schools system . Blow up the entire mess and start over .Just an idea .

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 03:43PM

me: This is going to be NOTICED in the upper circles of MormonDumb;


'little things' are slowly eroding ChurchCo influence & 'authority'.. I wish I could take those students to Disneyland!!!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 06:17PM

I couldn't agree more.

A generation or two ago, derision of non-cis people and familial relationships would have elicited no condemnation. Now, however, even kids understand that people are people, people are equal, regardless of whom they choose to love. Moreover the kids feel that their views are relevant, which is also something that would not have happened decades ago.

Kids give me hope.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 04:21PM

A sub should know better too with even minimal training.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 05:35PM

yes, but aren't you forgetting that Mormon Doctrine trumps everything else ?

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 06:49PM

Most Mormon teachers I know wouldn't do that even if they disapproved.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 07:05PM

It's the real world. These kids maybe learned something useful, which is that in society coworkers and the public are going to say rude things sooner or later. There is no such thing as special people, exempt from nasty comments. Sexual harassment is reality.

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Posted by: janeeliot ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 04:10PM

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's the real world. These kids maybe learned
> something useful, which is that in society
> coworkers and the public are going to say rude
> things sooner or later. There is no such thing as
> special people, exempt from nasty comments. Sexual
> harassment is reality.


(Wolf whistle) Cute ass you got there! ;-) Oh. Wait. I guess you weren't saying it was YOUR reality, were you.

Sorry. My bad.

Carry on.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 10:37PM

> Sexual
> harassment is reality.

So is prison time. I hope for your sake that your behavior is better than your moral code.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: November 30, 2019 08:11PM

I'm going to kite / 'owl' Ellen D & some other headliners to suggest they treat at least the 3 who went to principal a few days at Disneyland;


I 'think' if she hears about this & my suggestion, it will be a Done Deal.


I'd do it myself if I win the next Power Ball...

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 12:30PM

Send them to Disneyland and half the class will hate them for the next six years. I would call that "no good deed goes unpunished".

I think the status quo is not too bad. A lot of good little Utah County Mormon kids have taken note that adults really sat up and listened. Perhaps the parents agree with the sub, and listened out of fear, but kids notice when 11 year olds scare adults.

And if the parents cheered the 3 girls, that got noticed too.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 12:58PM

What is shocking is that substitute teachers get paid so little.

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Posted by: stillanon ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 04:39PM

And that's in a large, affluent district. Rural Utah schools pay as little as $50/day. Utah has always been at the bottom of the barrel with public education funding for their sunbeams. Keeping them young and dumb makes for future tithers.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 04:53PM

I was earning $50 a day as a daily sub twenty-five years ago!

My school district often suffers for a lack of subs. This forces teachers to double up their classes or for classes to be divided between several teachers, putting a strain on one's ability to teach. This is one of a number of factors why I left the classroom. I'm now in a specialty field of teaching where I don't have classroom responsibilities. I know of many teachers who are also looking to get out.

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Posted by: stillanon ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 06:21PM

That's what happens when kids are treated as a commodity instead of future assets. BTW, I know electricians that were making $25/hour 25 years ago. They're still making that today.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 09:31PM

I was wondering if you ever found a position you wanted, summer. Sounds like you did!

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 10:58PM

I did! My new field has its own set of challenges, but is so much better than being in the classroom. I started off the year split between two schools, but will now be going full time to my preferred school. So things are working out nicely.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 11:31PM

That sounds great!

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: December 01, 2019 09:12PM

In the days that there were 6 crew members on freight & passenger trains, teachers & college students working in the summers were welcomed, especially the experienced ones returning from previous years;

without exception the teachers told me that they made More in ~ 3 months than in the rest of the year.

Now with only 2 or 3 crew, there are fewer summer vacations to cover for, this is compounded by the fact that some yard switch engines are remote controlled with only 1 worker doing the work..

Here in Washington state, there is a state-wide salary schedule that includes factors for education & experience that is the minimum amount that state funds pay; individual districts still negotiate with teachers & may increase the pay if they're able.

local funding is a Huge Bonus for places like seattle with a lop-sided property value to student ratio, but this is somewhat offset by larger numbers of minority & other challenged learners.

There was an effort to convert an unused downtown Federal Building (branch of the Federal Reserve) to a school, but that failed partly due to the high costs or remodeling. IDK if that building continues to be vacant today or not...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2019 09:50PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: December 02, 2019 02:36AM

Back to the subject:

this story is gaining Lots of traction, just what ChurchCo and their public school subsidiaries don't want.wi


I really, really wish ChruchCo would ES&D

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: December 02, 2019 08:03AM

Could the boy's new parents sue the teacher for shaming the boy and discriminating against a protected class (sexual orientation)? If one of his new parents is this famous and successful person, he should have enough money in a civil suit to make her feel the pain, win or lose. She will need to hire an attorney and pay court fees, with the prospect in mind that she might lose and have to pay even more. Civil cases tend to stretch-out and you're kind of on your own. I imagine it's not a good place to be when you're in the wrong. At best, I think it takes a year or two to go from court filing to trial, unless she settles and pays-up. Any way you look at it, she should learn a lesson. Maybe the new family can go to disney land, on her dime.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2019 08:12AM by azsteve.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 02:57PM

I suspect that a civil lawsuit against the very offensive substitute teacher would be an exercise in futility.

If she took the easiest way out, which would be to ignore service of the Summons & Complaint, plaintiff would be left with two choices: Give up and go home OR proceed to trial with a presentation of the case to see what amount was awarded.

If a sum was awarded, what next? Sure, send the process server back with notice of how much is owed and that it is due within 30 days.

After 30 days go by, what next? (all of the above steps cost money.)

Well, there are procedures that can be followed to pry the cash out, assuming there is any.

But the bottom line is that the words "Judgment-proof" exist for a reason.



And then there's the issue of, "Does she know she did a bad thing? Has she learned anything?"

There's a good chance she doesn't and hasn't! There's a good chance that no matter what she reads online, she still thinks the church is true!

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Posted by: Warrior71783 ( )
Date: December 02, 2019 08:50AM

I hate shaming. Can be extremely damaging for a kid to be shamed by a 'so called adult', not a true adult if you shame a kid in my opinion.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: December 02, 2019 01:27PM

? Why does the school district partner with Kelly?
Certainly they have in-place payroll & other administrative tools in use every day!

This is Nothing More than Kelly scamming the substitute teachers with the school board as co-conspirators.

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Posted by: 1001 Nightmares ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 07:20AM

This boy has a father and a stepfather. If they divorce then the stepfather would not get access rights to the child, but the biological father would.

If neither of them is the biological father then they would get equal rights presumably.

No idea if the boy's mother gets any say in all this.

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Posted by: CA girl ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 08:03PM

Terrible teacher - wonderful little girls. If one of them were my daughter, I would be so proud I'd be crying.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 03, 2019 10:26PM

Yeah, the three girls! Yay for them!!

Wouldn't it be wonderful if they were members of the church?

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Posted by: snagglepuss ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 12:27AM

Around the world the story goes. One of the two dads is a Dancing With The Stars professional.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50642825

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 12:38AM

ChurchCo is Crapping Stones on this one, No Doubt.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2019 01:20AM by GNPE.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 09:59AM

The teacher is entitled to her opinion! What she is NOT entitled to is forcing her opinion on the minor children in her class.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 12:44PM

Exactly and especially if it directly impacts kids. This wasn't an academic question, it was about a kid's family.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: December 04, 2019 01:56PM

these 'Grass Roots' things that are so blatantly offensive & hurtful...

ChurchCo can't defend them Especially with children involved, it's a HUGE black-eye, that's why they're Silent on this.

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