Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: DNA ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 06:33AM

Growing up hearing conference talks and such, I always heard anecdotal stories of famous or powerful people praising the church. Like conversations leaders have with captains of industry etc. Think Paul H. Dunn.

But what do people really think?

When I was in and claimed it, people would praise it to me also. But after leaving 11 years ago, I was too ashamed of my gullibility to admit that I was ever a mormon. So I never, ever say I was one to anyone.

And on the outside, while claiming no affiliation, I have never heard a single person compliment it. They only trash it. Honestly, in 11 years I've never heard a coworker, someone at a social event, or anyone anywhere ever have something positive to say about the mormon church. Only negative.

It seems that praise is reserved for just having good social skills in the face of mormons.

Have you ever heard a compliment without anyone knowing that you ever had any affiliation?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2019 06:36AM by DNA.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 10:52AM

No. I would say that the predominant attitude is, "no opinion." Most people regard it as a rather wacky religion that they want no part of (but if their neighbors are Mormon, live and let live.) IMO the Mormon church had a better image back in the 70s and 80s when church PR was focused on wholesomeness and happy families. The Osmonds in their youth were also good ambassadors for the church. But even then, if you asked people about Mormonism, the first word that they associated with the faith was "polygamy" -- and still is. Polygamy is a dark stain on the church even generations later.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: momjeans ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 01:16PM

I have heard non-Mormons say a couple of pre-programmed lines such as "Well, they're nice people" or "Well, they're all about family". I generally just let that pass unanswered.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 02:20PM

A couple of my cousins figured out that it was the church that kept me from becoming a father in high school, but they didn't really praise the church; it was more like they felt sorry for me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 03:41PM

with mormonism because his ancestors were mormon and he wasn't too pleased when I sent the missionaries to my boyfriend back in 1979, he did tell me once when I was there that if he were to join a church, he probably would have picked the mormons, but I really think he was just trying to be kind, thinking maybe I still believed somewhat. Three of his children joined, but are no longer mormon.

I was rather shocked when he said that to me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Backseater ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 04:34PM

The libertarian scholar Murray N. Rothbard mentioned "the Mormons" as an example of self-reliance, independence, and rejection of government. He was particularly impressed by the trek West, and the church "private" welfare systems. That was back in the late 1970's. Didn't say much about the religious part of it.

https://mises.org/library/rothbard-reader/html/c/367
https://mises-media.s3.amazonaws.com/For%20a%20New%20Liberty%20The%20Libertarian%20Manifesto_3.pdf

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 05:04PM

In the 50s and 60s, I felt very good about being a junior mormon! And then when I determined for myself that it was just another human organization, I still thought it was okay.

But then I found out about the changes being made to the church's agenda, both for juveniles and adults...

Some day I'll find out who made it and why it was made: the change from mission field Diversion Day to mission field Preparation Day and I'll be able to plot the evil.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 05:59PM

I think a lot of this depends on where someone lives geographically, and also what subculture that they belong to themselves.

For example, most active christians are aware that Mormonism is a cult. Some of the best (objective and well-informed) "anti" Mormon material I've encountered online is at catholic.com. Also, any mainstream christian bookstore will have literature related to Mormonism shelved in the cult section (w/JWs and others).

My dad grew up in Missouri, and he loathed the Mormons. He was a lifelong Methodist, so I'm sure he "knew" about their cult status from his religious upbringing, but the animosity probably came from where he grew up.

I remember his ire with Mormons as early as the third grade in about 1972. He was a Navy pilot, and stationed for 2 years in Albuquerque. There was a Mormon place near the base. I remember thinking "Latter Day Saints" was odd and him ranting about it.

Later he was stationed in Germany (1976) and there was a Mormon family living in our stairwell. The family consisted of a dad, who was in the army, the mom of 3 kids and a "sister" who was the mom of 3 other kids who were "adopted" by the dad for some reason. Naturally, everyone assumed that the dad had two wives. These 9 people shared a 4 bedroom apartment. No one ever went into their apartment (but them, of course). The stairwell was supposed to be cleaned up weekly (swept, mopped, etc), and "duty" rotated weekly from one family to the next. This family, in spite of having six kids, and 3 adults, never did anything. This also drove my dad and all the neighbors crazy.

I can remember being embarrassed that my brother had married a Mormon back in the 1980s, but I also carried their water by repeating their lies about polygamy (that it was to take care of "too many" single women and widows") in knee-jerk response when others brought it up. That was in the pre-internet era, and I was largely in the dark about Mormonism myself other than "knowing" that they're "weird," have a history of polygamy.

I didn't actually learn much about Mormonism until it sort of came back on my radar for a number of reasons: mittens was running for president, and him being a Mormon sparked my curiosity. Also, my TBM brother and his TBM wife were causing more and more friction in our family at large. My other (neverMo) brother had also been doing a lot of research and telling the rest of us about it.

Not surprisingly, we've learned that the "lies" are all true. The "anti" stuff is simply facts. And that it really is a freak show.


I think if "Mormonism" comes up around Mormons, then people tend to make polite commentary. I know when it comes up when Mormons are not around, the commentary is not as polite, and is more direct and honest.

Obviously, I no longer carry their water, and haven't in a long long time. But I'm also direct and honest about what I know about Mormonism when it comes up. I don't make polite commentary.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Warrior71783 ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 06:41PM

No never. I always kept silent around new crowds that i was ever a mormon. They would talk trash and they would ask "you aren't mormon are you?" I would then answer "nope"

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Backseater ( )
Date: December 30, 2019 12:33PM

Sometime around 2005, a group from our Unitarian church in Dallas went on a cruise from Vancouver, British Columbia up the inside passage to Alaska. It was organized as a ladies-only event, but at the last moment some husbands were invited. To make a long story short, we had a nice time; got off the ship at Seward; and took the train to Anchorage. Because of different return air connections, some of us were staying over one night and some were returning that evening. The connection for the evening group was through Salt Lake City.

Somebody asked the hotel desk clerk to arrange airport transportation so we wouldn't miss the plane to SLC. He looked at the group--about nine women and two men, one with an impressive beard--and said:

"Are you guys Mormons?"

True story; Scout's Honor.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 07:02PM

I have a friend who praised the Mormon idea of a "lay clergy". He of course knew nothing about bishop sex interviews of children, bishops blaming the victim for domestic violence, bishops advising women to marry gay boyfriends & etc, etc, etc.

Turns out the reason he thought a lay clergy was good was because he knew the details of a paid clergyman seducing members of his congregation while being paid by that congregation. (Obviously, this friend also knew nothing about early Mormon history)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Backseater ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 12:30AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 07:24PM

I have heard positive views of Mormons and Mormonism although those are definitely in the minority and often disingenuous.

For example, Harold Bloom and some other academics (who is the woman who specializes in Mormonism and sometimes writes complimentary things?) have expressed some laudatory sentiments. I do not, however, think those people have much knowledge of the inner workings of the church or its interactions with members.

I have also met people who have encountered the propaganda and repeat it back--things like Mormons value family or Mormons have a strong moral code. But those opinions are not grounded in an understanding of LDS culture and presumably susceptible over the longer term to all the negative news that stemming from Prop 8, the 2015 policy, and the $100 billion scandal. Then there are the people who are superficially complimentary to Mormons but may well be dissembling in the interest of civility.

So yes, I've heard positive things. But I don't think those occasional experiences reflect any substantial understanding of Mormonism. Moreover, the frequency of such praise seems to be diminishing due to the availability of information through the internet, the various scandals, and the writings of ex-Mormons.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: NeverMo in CA ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 08:01PM

The only times I heard anything about Mormons growing up here in he SF Bay Area, the comments were positive or neutral. For example, there was a guy in my class at Catholic school who was being raised Catholic; his dad was Catholic, but his mom was a Mormon (and a practicing one, as far as I know). Occasionally you might hear, "Jacob's mom is Mormon" from some parent, but it was simply a mildly interested observation--no judgement about it. My mom in particular had a lot of nice things to say about Mormons, in part because a woman who was her teacher's aide for many years was a practicing Mormon. My mom would always make a point of saying that "Mormons are such nice people. They have good values," etc. That seemed always to be the general view I heard of Mormons, on the rare occasions I heard anything: their religion might be a little odd or mysterious, but at least they had "good values."

However, about three years ago a younger cousin of mine converted to Mormonism in her mid-20s and married an RM (after knowing him about five months). Her parents and siblings, and her aunt, were absolutely devastated at not being able to attend the wedding at the Oakland Temple (and apparently were treated rudely at the reception, to boot). I would not have expected an invitation even if my cousin were not Mormon; we are second cousins, and my extended family is very large, so not everyone is invited to every wedding anyway, However, I was sad and angry for her poor parents and siblings. My impression is that they knew little or nothing about Mormonism prior to my cousin's conversion, and they were stunned and heartbroken not to be able to see her marry.

Anyway, my point is that since seeing how heartbroken some of our family members were at being excluded from their own daughter/niece/sister's nuptials, my mom and other relatives who previously were neutral about--or, like my mom, even positive about--Mormonism, now have a very different opinion. I've heard things like "cult-like," "I thought they cared about families," etc. I wonder if Mormons would even see the irony in that it was not "anti-Mormon" literature or websites, or a musical like The Book of Mormon, etc. that turned people off their faith, but rather, their own teachings.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: want2bx ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 08:04PM

I currently live in Utah, but was raised in the "mission field." When others learned that I was Mormon, I don't remember anyone having anything positive to say about it. If they said anything at all, they usually asked about polygamy or wondered if it was a Christian denomination. I honestly don't think most people knew that much about it or even cared. I think they just grouped it with other odd religions like JWs.

When my daughter graduated from college, she took a job in another state. She reported that a few people at her company confided in her that they thought the recruits from BYU had poor social skills and seemed arrogant.

I do think it's sort of odd though that Mormons often claim to be admired, but in the next breath they insist that they're persecuted.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: DNA ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 09:38PM

want2bx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I do think it's sort of odd though that Mormons
> often claim to be admired, but in the next breath
> they insist that they're persecuted.


Interesting thought. That is strange to claim both at the same time.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: December 29, 2019 02:03PM

Perhaps a differentiation was claimed? As in, "...good people admired us; evil people persecuted us..."

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anonymiss ( )
Date: December 30, 2019 01:45PM

They want to be admired, so they believe they are. Believing makes it so, right? But of course they are not admired, which they see as persecution. They reconcile it all by seeing the persecution as resulting from the admiration. As in, people envy them because they admire them. Others only wish they could be as good as Mormons and since they can’t, envy and jealousy drives them to persecute those they “admire.” Twisted Mormon justifications.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Anziano Young ( )
Date: December 30, 2019 11:34AM

Mormons think they have the only true church on the face of the earth, everyone else is wrong, and they alone have the "fullness of the gospel" and a path back to heaven. This leads to the conclusion that everyone else on the planet who doesn't have the truth must either a) be looking for it or b) knows the Mormons have it but are under the influence of Satan.

Thus, the only two types of non-Mormons who can possibly exist, in their minds, are those who recognize the truth of Mormonism and are being primed by God to accept that truth--and therefore will praise the church--or those who are already held captive by the devil and will do anything to destroy the church--and persecute Mormons by enjoying a glass of wine or allowing gays to marry each other, things like that.

Of course, in reality 99.9% of the world's population of humans could not care less about the church. But when you're part of it and think that it's the greatest thing in the universe, it is impossible to allow for that realization to sink in--because it negates the importance of what Mormons think is not just the purest religion ever, but the reason for the existence of all of creation.

want2bx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do think it's sort of odd though that Mormons
> often claim to be admired, but in the next breath
> they insist that they're persecuted.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Anziano Young ( )
Date: December 30, 2019 01:52PM

You see this also in Mormon stories and apocrypha. I remember my father often repeating the story of Joseph F. Smith being confronted by a mob in California. As it went, the ringleader asked who was a Mormon and proclaimed he would kill any Mormons on the spot. When asked if he was Mormon, Smith said something like, "Died in the wool, true blue, through and through." So of course, the would-be Mormon-killer was so struck by his courage he asked to shake his hand and let him go.

Stories like that illustrate this dichotomy in the minds of Mormons: the antagonist was so influenced by Satan that he would kill any members of God's True Church(TM), but simultaneously so impressed by them that he couldn't bring himself to do it. In the Mormon imagination, there is no middle ground.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: DNA ( )
Date: December 28, 2019 09:51PM

I know that there are academics and such that will praise it such as Armand Mauss. But I was meaning just common people talking around you when no mormons were present.

I was raised in Utah. I first heard the trash talk when I got a job driving a truck before university. All the drivers running through Utah on the CB made cracks about horns and extra wives and such.

When I moved to Arizona and had a super cool classic car, I kept the Utah plates on it. I remember a car full of hot girls pulling up at a red light and asking if I was a mormon. Their reply was, "I didn't know mormons had cool cars." But they knew I was one. Just another tid bit about my discovery of what others thought.

Once I moved out of Utah for good, I found more people who trash mormons.

Now that I hide my previous association, I hear so much more. Coworkers having some reason to bring it up. Then it starts a round of, "OMG, mormons are so f'ing weird, do you know what they think?" Followed by some basically true statement that does sound crazy on the outside.

When I admitted being mormon, or admitted previously being one, I heard complimentary things about family etc. Once I hid my previous involvement, the world of true thoughts, not tempered for social skills around mormons, opened up. And it wasn't pretty.

Honestly, in 11 years, and many moves to new jobs etc. I've never heard anyone say something nice about mormons, unless they knew a mormon was around.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: December 29, 2019 01:48PM

DNA Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I've never heard anyone say something nice
> about mormons, unless they knew a mormon was
> around.

I think this sums it up pretty nicely!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: December 29, 2019 01:52PM

One of my neverMo Dad's chief complaints about TSCC is that "they don't do anything for anybody else." He meant that TSCC only provided help or resources to Mormons. He's been gone many years, but the odd thing is to discover that he was wrong. And not that TSCC does provide help and aide to others, but that for all intents and purposes, they aren't helping "their own" either (witness the $100 billion slush fund, and all the other businesses and investments).

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: December 30, 2019 12:20PM

to some people, the 'efficiency' of ChurchCo is almost worthy of worship.


some other churches are very inefficient, so the comparison is somewhat valid.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: December 30, 2019 01:55PM

Not directly. What I have heard has always been by someone from the stake or a visiting GA.

One such GA told of another GA who had an acquaintance in England who was a renown doctor. The doctor made all of the observations and objections any rational person would make about the church, BoM, and Joseph Smith.

The GA finally convinced the doctor to just read the BoM before passing judgment, which the doctor did to just get the GA off her back.

After spending a weekend dedicated to reading the BoM, she decided to get some sleep before rendering judgment. During the middle of the night she sat up, suddenly wide awake, and exclaimed, "Oh no, it's true!" She immediately called the GA and apologized for ever doubting.

It gave my wife chills when she heard the GA's story. I thought it was a bunch of bull crap.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2019 02:06PM by GregS.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: December 30, 2019 02:17PM

Seldom any names, dates, or exact places with these stories;

I personally know of one such story:

In Seattle, what used to be known as the 10th ward (now = ?) is located very close to a Lutheran church...

one brother unfamiliar with the area was headed to attend the lutheran church, but turned into the 10th parking lot & was converted... Yup, I met this guy when I was attending there.


side note: Some BOZO from church building department / SLC designed the 10th with a flat 'built up' roof which is TOTALLY A DISASTER for buildings here: lots of rain, freeze/thaw weather - climate, needs LOTS of repairs/maintenance.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: December 30, 2019 02:52PM

The church received the results of a religious survey from the greater Sacramento area 35 years ago and the results were dismal. Out of a sampling of 500 non members, the church scored a positive or neutral score around 20%. Just about every other major denomination scored higher than the not so loved Mormons. I think the great and abominable church had the highest overall score around 60%. This was shared by the local CES director who was making a point in his institute class that most of the world doesn't perceive the church to be peaches and cream.

As a missionary, the only complimentary things spoken about the church were the sappy commercials about family values. Unfortunately, I never witnessed anything like what was portrayed in those heart felt morality ads. At most church gatherings and socials, there was a lot of yelling and hollering at children to behave or married couples having their spat of the month.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: December 30, 2019 03:54PM

People who were not Mormon have said kind things about the religion to me. Then I educated them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: December 30, 2019 04:28PM

My ex, who seldom had anything nice to say about anybody.

When he was a district manager for a huge international company, one of the guys he supervised was a Mormon. He had nothing but praise for the guy: "He gets the job done, he doesn't touch alcohol, he is a good family man, he is trustworthy."

That guy was the first Mormon I ever met. He and his family were super-nice people.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tyson Dunn (not logged on) ( )
Date: December 30, 2019 05:41PM

I recently moved to New England from the mid-Atlantic and have mostly gotten comments ranging from pity to derision for the faith. Admittedly, I’ve only been here a few months, but no one except a local pastor has really said anything vaguely positive, and even then, he only commented that the local Mormons have recently been more open to ecumenical activity. I stopped myself from telling him that it would only last as long as whatever local bishop/stake president remained in their position.

Tyson

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Flyer ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 12:59AM

Beyond the superficial, "they're nice" - not really.Of course they're nice to prospective members, not so nice to former ones.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Quiver my lumbers ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 09:56AM

The comments I've heard are along the lines of Mormons being nice and family orientated. Other people think they're weird but harmless.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 02:26PM

Any people, co-workers, and friends complimented me when they learnt I was Mormon. One went so far as to say, "That's a neat church!" After I left, any compliments about the church stopped, and they all complimented me, instead, for getting out. They all contradicted what they had said, and told me what a cult it was. People compliment the church just to be nice.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
  *******   **    **  **     **        **  **     ** 
 **     **  **   **    **   **         **  **     ** 
        **  **  **      ** **          **  **     ** 
  *******   *****        ***           **  **     ** 
        **  **  **      ** **    **    **  **     ** 
 **     **  **   **    **   **   **    **  **     ** 
  *******   **    **  **     **   ******    *******