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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 03:33PM

"Neil DeGrasse Tyson, says that believers he talks to tell him that God is all-powerful and good, but when he looks at ”all the ways Earth wants to kill us,” he just doesn’t see how both could be true."

https://bigthink.com/robby-berman/michio-kaku-believes-in-god-if-not-that-god

I guess he should talk to his buddy who developed M Theory,

"Einstein believed in the god of Spinoza, the god of liveness, the god of order, harmony. The universe could have been random, chaotic, messy. But the universe is actually quite elegant, quite simple, and in fact, is gorgeous. You can put the laws of physics, as we know them, on a simple sheet of paper. Amazing! It didn’t have to be that way.” Michio Kaku

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoGYObRNn6A
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Yes Earth has all kinds of ways it wants to kill us, yet for at least 3.5 billion years of life on Earth, it has done the opposite. It has created us out of the elements, nurtured us and kept us alive, rather than destroying life.
So based upon that fact, perhaps the opposite is true.
The fact life has existed continuously for 3.5 Billion years is all the evidence we need to conclude that god (nature) is benevolent in as much as it tends to favor liveness, order, harmony and elegant, simple and gorgeous outcomes, like us and all other life forms, who's existence would be extremely unlikely if not for that tendency.

Perhaps Einstein was only half wrong, as it turns out, god (Nature) plays dice with the universe all the time, on a subatomic level, only the dice are loaded in favor of order, harmony and beautiful life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2019 03:55PM by schrodingerscat.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 31, 2019 04:05PM

> . . . god (Nature) plays dice with the universe all
> the time, on a subatomic level, only the dice are
> loaded in favor of order, harmony and beautiful
> life.

Ever hear of the Second Law of Thermodynamics? You know, the principle that everything trends towards disorder?

Because the chemistry that resulted in life is based on that Second Law. If the universe is "loaded in favor of order," life wouldn't exist.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 07:09AM

That's a good point, it looks like since this constant all encompassing disorder affects the natural world, and every now and then there is a disruption to disorder that must be evidence for a creator. One example is the expanding universe (which is disorder) if it was expanding just a little bit faster the gravitational forces wouldn't keep us bound to the Sun, we would even exist. It's a miracle that we aren't expanding any faster!

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 10:16AM

There's order to the chaos, otherwise the cosmos wouldn't exist, it'd just be pure energy instead of matter.
The fact that life exists, despite all the destructive forces in the world, is all the evidence we need to conclude nature is, on balance, good. The dice are loaded in favor of matter instead of anti-matter.
There is order in lieu of disorder.

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Posted by: Dogbloggernli ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 02:28PM

It's not energy vs order. Matter and energy are equivalent, that's the core of eisnsteins famous equation. It's that there was apparently an inequality of matter vs antimatter. though this is more assumed than proven because of limits on our observation.

Nor is there any evidence of intent in that inequality. Current theories suppose that many universes were initiated with varying intitial conditions balancing some supposed requirements of balanced equations. We are just unable to observe them (yet). There are a number of reasonable explanations, just without proof yet. So to jump one one explanation as the answer is naive and premature. Have the intellectual humility necessary for the actual quality of the model and evidence.

And yet you persist with the pathetic fallacy calling nature good based on a 5% model, 95% being dark.

Einstein rejected spooky action at a distance. Einstein rejected gravitational waves, Einstein's cosmological constant required a static universe. Yet he was wrong. Einstein endorsed a god of the laws of nature, laws he got wrong.

What are you getting wrong based on such incomplete evidence.

Is it too terrible to say "I don't know?"

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: January 05, 2020 02:19PM

The more I learn, the more I realize what we can see is only a tiny fraction of what remains a vast mystery, for all of us, which is why I think the whole age old theist vs. atheist divide is a false dichotomy. None of us knows. Atheism is just a knee jerk reaction to theism. It's not a philosophy or even a world view, it's a debate position, for debating delusional people.
I'm just suggesting, like Kaku and NdGT, that the debate is a waste of time, when we exist in a vast, dark mystery. And that mystery is not an obstacle to living, but in fact, an integral part of the human condition. Always has been and probably always will be. For every scientific discovery there are more questions raised than answers provided.
We added up everything we could see in the universe and it only added up to 5% of the mass of what should exist in order for the flows we can observe to occur. Nobody could explain where the 95% went missing so we just called it "Dark Matter/Energy" and used that as a fudge factor. So, as it turns out, what Einstein called his greatest blunder, the Cosmological Constant, was right all along.
Dark Energy-Dark Matter = Cosmological Constant....
....Until better information comes along.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/einsteins-greatest-blunder/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2020 02:21PM by schrodingerscat.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 02:01PM

Yes and obviously the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics does not preclude order or life, otherwise we wouldn't exist and life would not have existed continuously evolving for 3.5 billion years.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 02:25PM

What you are missing is that entropy is the breakdown in order. Chemical reactions occur if, and only if, they produce greater disorder.

Life could not have developed if the universe were biased in favor of order as you suggest.

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Posted by: Dogblogger nli ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 01:10AM

Whether your words or your favorite scientist, it's the pathetic fallacy either way.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 01:12AM


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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 06:27AM

Every day is groundhog day.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2020 01:33PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 10:43PM

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...But the universe is actually quite elegant, quite
> simple, and in fact, is gorgeous.

And it wants to kill us.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 10:59PM

olderelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> schrodingerscat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ...But the universe is actually quite elegant,
> quite
> > simple, and in fact, is gorgeous.
> .
> And it wants to kill us.

If it wanted to kill us it would have after 3.5billion yrs.

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Posted by: dogbloggernli ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 11:27PM

Are you now a prophet to know what this god wants?

It speaks to you about its desires?

Do you begin to see why it's called the pathetic fallacy?

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: January 03, 2020 12:10AM

The universe is eating popcorn and watching the humans destroy themselves.

Time for another mass extinction? It looks like we're stupidly marching that way.

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