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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 12:29AM

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/m/e5b436aa-a843-3a2e-a449-98120114bc5a/mormon-women-are-caught.html

If you look at the yahoo comment section, the TBM's are miffed about the article featuring quotes from ex-mos; especially Kate Kelly.

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 12:33AM

> If you look at the yahoo comment section, the
> TBM's are miffed about the article featuring
> quotes from ex-mos; especially Kate Kelly.


Aww... poor mormons

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Posted by: SixAM ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 11:30AM

Excommunication makes mormons stop listening, why doesn't it work on everyone else too???

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Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 12:36AM

It's sad that they refer to BYU as a top university.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 07:53AM

It's a tough situation that women are in. Kimbal wanted women to be having babies as the article says. But women are choosing work and paycheck, and dreams of prestige that never happen. The rising generation is delaying marriage for a variety of reasons, some are delaying families because of necessity reasons, or they haven't met a compatible match, and I'm sure that's respectable, and they shouldn't feel guilty. But for most people the reasons are just plain selfishness, egotism, and money. Let's call it what it is, most people are making rebellious decisions.

The rise in cohabitation is a major culprit in this deterioration of societal norms. Playing house (without commitments) is another way to waste ones life and potential. For most people, who have good health and don't have kids, there is no reason to use birth control, except immaturity.

I've mentioned this before perhaps, but I don't think it's men that are causing the problems in this world, women have always been the ones that sway nations, that are the power in decision making, that have the wealth. They are the blackwiddows, the Queen Bee. Men are the hornets. Most of societies problems are caused by women. This nation rises and falls because of the decisions of women and decisions of what they do with their bodies.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 09:31AM

The society you think was so great was based on men having their women as personal breeding vessels.

Good riddance to those societal norms.

There are enough people on earth for cripes sake.

It is only considered a waste of life and potential to old school men like you when women don't get married and breed. We already know one of your issues is higher education which, believe it or not, is very fulfilling.

Just wow.

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Posted by: MrBeel ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 10:12AM

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>...We already know one of your issues is higher education which, believe it or not, is very fulfilling.
>
>Just wow.

Whatever its faults, higher education seems to do a good job teaching 'critical thinking'. No wonder some folks despise college/uni grads!

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Posted by: good grief ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 11:21AM

No wonder you can't get laid.

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Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 11:57AM

Opinions are like elbows. Almost everyone has a couple.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 12:32PM

And they say Neanderthals are extinct.

Yeah, the world started downhill in the sixties when women were allowed to buy contraceptives and get credit cards without being required to have a male cosigner on the account.

Oh, and the vote, a hundred years ago. Happy Centennial,women. That battle only took 72 years. But women are in charge, and responsible for all the world's problems.

God help us all.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 11:19AM

Wow. You've won the misogynist prize of RFM for, perhaps, all time.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 01:54PM

I can't agree with this, Dorothy!

Sure, macaRomney ranks high on that list, but Jordan, Free Man, and smirkorama are even more compelling evidence that troglodytes are still among us.


ETA: Check out this gem from smirkorama just a few days ago.

> Women tend to be more tribal and complaint and
> submissive ........and less analytical than men.
> once again LDS Inc is counting on that fact, IF
> you are female and that generality does not fit
> you, then do not attack me (!!!!!!!), just spend
> your energy on congratulating yourself for being
> an exception instead. However, LDS Inc is
> counting on their FaithFOOL MORmON women to help
> keep the MORmON men anchored in the MORmON cult
> over the long run. and that is a fact !!!!!

Misogyny is all too common on RfM. Like racism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2020 02:00PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: RRman6013 ( )
Date: January 29, 2020 01:44AM

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The
> rising generation is delaying marriage for a
> variety of reasons, some are delaying families
> because of necessity reasons, or they haven't met
> a compatible match, and I'm sure that's
> respectable, and they shouldn't feel guilty. But
> for most people the reasons are just plain
> selfishness, egotism, and money. Let's call it
> what it is, most people are making rebellious
> decisions.
==========================================================
I disagree with that. It's the high cost of living. I'm from Washington DC, where a one bedroom apartment can cost $2000/month. I'm retired and if I still lived there, I'd be on the street or in a shelter. Day care can cost as much as college.

I can't see a thing wrong with waiting until you've landed a good job before getting married and having children. If you can't provide for children, you're not doing them any favors by having them.

Both marriage rates and birth rates declined during the Great Depression. Apparently, people were more responsible then. If they couldn't afford to have kids, they didn't do things that would make kids. And there was no modern birth control like the pill.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 10:26AM

I was able to work around my husband's schedule so he was with the kids when I wasn't. After he left, I happened to have made my job work at home. I still work remotely. I drove my kids to school every day and was here when they were home sick, etc. I still love my job after doing it for 33 years. And I didn't get it with a college education.

My daughter will be the working parent and her husband will be the SAHF if they choose to have kids. She's 34. She worked her way up in the Princess company and was offered a great job with great benefits, but she has to be in Alaska half the year so off they go in a month. He worked there for a few years, too. My daughter does have a degree, but her job isn't in her area of study. She is a manager over the drivers for their transportation at Denali. She wrote their training manuals in the past few years. She'd go nuts staying home with kids. Her husband will make a great SAHF. He has patience. She doesn't.

My old boss, who I worked with for 20 years, was the breadwinner. She ran the company and her husband raised the 4 kids. Their mormon ward members and friends were always asking him when he was going to get a real job. They were both hurt by those questions. She is amazingly brilliant and it worked very well for their whole family.

If you want to see how hard the job is of staying home with kids for any men, try it sometime.

Most of my neighbors are SAHM.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 12:42PM

The fundamental problem Mormonism is facing is that within Mormonism, a woman will never be in a position of authority over any male over 11 years old. So, out in the real world, people raised in the Mormon culture who buy into the idea that it has God's stamp of approval, simply can't imagine women as being in real positions of authority. They think it is at best, tokenism.

I mean, does the RS presidency have any real authority? They get to carry on day to day operations, but all substantive decisions are made by the Q15, and even minor decisions are subject to review and overrule whenever the men in charge think the sisters have gotten ahead of their skis on some decision.

Mormonism is a man's world. Period. Women will be increasingly aware that this is not how the real world operates anymore, and will view with alarm/disdain.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 03:34PM

Exactly.

If Catholics shrug at it in their organization, Mormons are happy to drag their feet too.

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Posted by: SixAM ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 09:41AM

One more reason to keep them at home and involved in churchy things. When they go out in the real world they get treated more and more like equals and that they have some value outside of baby makers and home cleaners.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 05, 2020 01:53AM

This is why I think of the RS as a women's auxiliary of a men's organization. The RS has so substantive decision making power.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: January 14, 2020 02:08PM

The RS used to be their own entity, with women calling all the shots. It changed thanks to--yes, you're right--correlation. Correlation is the poison that, over time, sucked all enjoyment and spiritual meaning out of Mormonism. Now members are made to do stuff in the name of obedience and pleasing the general authorities.

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 11:32PM

The notion that women are powerless in Mormonism is pretty funny.

I visit an LDS site and they regularly beat up on guys for their disgusting pornography addiction.

Here's a thread that's been going on for years:

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=35356

Here's one promoting making porn illegal:

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=53329

This daughter caught dad looking at porn and wondering who to tell:

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=53279

There are several others, but you get my drift. Women controlling men behind the scenes.

This woman felt obligated to tell everyone about her husband's porn addiction:

https://www.mormonwomen.com/interview/when-pornography-hits-home/

"The night he told me about his addiction, I called my mom. We ended up telling his family, and eventually, we knew we’d have to tell close family and friends. However, I prayed hard about who I was going to tell because I needed people who could support us, not judge us and who could handle the burden of knowing. There is a lot pain in knowing someone you love is struggling with something so hard."

"The society you think was so great was based on men having their women as personal breeding vessels."

Of course, you conveniently leave out the fact that in order to be allowed to "breed", men had to risk death on the battlefield or in the mines or other occupations to earn money. I mean, the guys with black lung disease after years of sweating in the coal mines and handing their wife their paycheck must have felt pretty powerful, huh?

I was reading this article recently about women shaming men into battle in WW1 by handing out white feathers to "cowards".

http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/151/the-white-feather-campaign-a-struggle-with-masculinity-during-world-war-i


"......there was something that was more terrifying to youthful Englishmen than a gruesome death on some foreign battlefield. The campaign showed a great knowledge of how masculinity functioned and the white feather played directly into this gender structure. The most devastating blow that could be dealt to an English youth was the sudden recognition of a woman’s shame and disapproval."

So most women want a family, and church gives them the power to do so, by limiting a man's options, and pressuring him to be the sole breadwinner. The notion that most women want a career more than family is one of the bigger lies of feminism, as discussed by Suzanne Venker.

https://www.suzannevenker.com/feminism/4-feminist-lies-that-are-making-women-miserable/

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 11:45PM

I just remembered something I read a while back. This shows more of what goes on behind the scenes and who's really in control.

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28709&start=30


"I know a couple where the wife has steadfastly refused sex for over ten years. One day, the husband was watching her bend over in her pajamas while she was picking something up off the floor, and he looked down her top. She immediately stood up and yelled at him for being a dirty old man for looking at his own wife’s nakedness. When this man came to me and a friend who is a bishop (not the husband’s bishop) for advice, we recommended the books “And They Were Not Ashamed” by Sr. Laura Brotherson and “The Purity and the Passion” by Wendy Watson. When he recommended either book to his wife, he again got yelled at because he only wanted her to read those books so he could convince her to let him “work off his lustful desires” on her. I recognize that this is a woman in serious need of professional counseling (which she’s never going to get) but it’s not an isolated case. Their marriage continues along, and the husband, now in his 18th year of enforced celibacy honors his marriage through a sense of duty rather than desire. The woman is a prominent member of ward leadership offices because of her “holy” nature. It’s a sad case of satan using something beautiful to destroy love. It’s sad. I would hope that appropriate discussions in church meetings could help turn some of this tide."

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 11:23AM

Freeman, I didn't even want to pollute my brain with your drivel--so I didn't.

Folks, we have a runner up for the RFM Misogynist Prize!

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Posted by: Right Said Fred ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 01:15PM

Preach it! We is woke! Fight the power!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 02:03PM

Another one-post wonder. Weather cold in Canada?

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Posted by: BAIIPLUS ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 11:33AM

you mention women on this site and FREEMAN will bring up sex and being denied sex and how women have control over SEX.

You know you can take matters into your own hands, don't you?

And the fact that this is what comes to your mind first when someone mentions women or feminism, speaks volumes. You don't value women as people you see them as a warm place to put it.

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Posted by: Henry B. Eyeroll ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 03:04PM

Free Man, Macaromney, and Jordan should all take a buddy road trip together down to Alabama, where they will fit right in. On the way, they can collaborate on their epic incel manifesto. Their theme song can be "Dueling Banjos."

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Posted by: Rupert Pupkin ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 06:06PM

Henry B. Eyeroll Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Free Man, Macaromney, and Jordan should all take a
> buddy road trip together down to Alabama, where
> they will fit right in. On the way, they can
> collaborate on their epic incel manifesto. Their
> theme song can be "Dueling Banjos."

You're doing your own John Boorman. When Boorman directed "Deliverance" he was turning on a community which had offered him kindness and hospitality when he had gotten into trouble canoeing. Boorman portrayed the area as full of rapists, psychopaths, bigots - the polar opposite of his real life experience with such people. But hey, metropolitan prejudices run deep.

At the end of the day, you can't be a class snob and truly progressive. The rural working class - black AND white - are the salt of the Earth, and better mannered than their urban counterparts.

p.s. I have been in a steady and happy relationship for several years. That's what happens when a man doesn't walk over a woman or vice versa.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 08:53PM

Nice to see you again, Joe Anon--ehr, I mean Gourd Vidal, or was it LogicalCanuckExmo? Hwint? Jordan 1? Jordan 2?

It's a bit pathetic, really. Somebody says "boo" and you have to run and hide.


---------------
> You're doing your own John Boorman. When Boorman
> directed "Deliverance" he was turning on a
> community which had offered him kindness and
> hospitality when he had gotten into trouble
> canoeing. Boorman portrayed the area as full of
> rapists, psychopaths, bigots - the polar opposite
> of his real life experience with such people.

You know Henry B. Eyeroll in real life? You know the people he was surrounded by? Because otherwise you have no foundation for saying any of these things.


-----------------
> But
> hey, metropolitan prejudices run deep.

Your Orwellian Newspeak also runs deep. For "metropolitan" does not in fact mean "cultural Marxist." Or are you just channeling Stephen Miller--you know, the working-class patriot from working-class Santa Monica?


--------------
> At the end of the day, you can't be a class snob
> and truly progressive. The rural working class -
> black AND white - are the salt of the Earth, and
> better mannered than their urban counterparts.

So you are a well-mannered person, Jordan? I'm glad you pointed that out because most of us did not infer that from your behavior on RfM.


-----------------
> p.s. I have been in a steady and happy
> relationship for several years.

Congratulations! It's great that you are no longer the bitter Hwint/Anon Joe that used to post here.


--------------
> That's what
> happens when a man doesn't walk over a woman or
> vice versa.

Hmm. That reads like an accusation against your ethnic-minority ex-wife, the woman whom you originally loved but came to despise. It's a pity that your newfound happiness has not translated into an absence of racist and misogynistic rage of the sort you post so regularly.

But ultimately your anger is a justifiable result of your persecution at the hand of metropolitan, progressive class snobs. Right? You and your muse, Stephen Miller, are such victims!

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: January 14, 2020 02:12PM

Note how the woman notified the whole family about the husband's "addiction." Making public what should be confidential is, to me, grounds for divorce.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 04:37PM

A shout out here to Lethbridge Reprobate, aka LethRo, and elderolddog, who prove that real men have wonderful romantic lives. In an age when love is increasingly transactional, it's nice to see people who do it right.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 05:31PM


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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: January 04, 2020 09:09PM

I think a lot of this misogyny is just trolling.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: January 05, 2020 09:32AM

The comments are so outrageous, you have to be right. "Women have all the power and control all the money." Ummmm...whaaaaa?

So what works? I've seen some really horrible comments just left to sit there without reply. I know these trolls just want to be fed.

Do you have suggestions?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 05, 2020 03:18PM

I don't think it is simple trolling.

Jordan's misogyny emerged from his divorce five or six years ago. He didn't express those feelings before then, but then his attitude changed. We have a record going back a long time on that. Smirkorama has always presented that nuance as well.

Freeman has also always complained about his marriage, and his MGTOW activism and misogyny ensued. For his part macaRomney is consistently Mormon--racist, misogynist, anti-intellectual. Even when he was Poopstone he did that. There have been others over the years. I think we have to recognize that these prejudices are bone deep in Mormonism and even when people leave, they unwittingly bring a lot of those traits with them.

The racism/misogyny is against the board rules and could be purged, surely. But perhaps the admins think that there is value in critiquing that stuff. I agree with that to some extent although it seems likely that this bilious ignorance may discourage people from joining, or robustly participating in, the community.

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Posted by: ptbarnum ( )
Date: January 05, 2020 04:53PM

Hang out here long enough and you can distinguish between venting about the cult and its members who hurt us, one-off mopologist drive-by trolling, over-the-top trolling for sarcasm/levity (I have been enjoying "God" joining the board at times), grandiose and judgy trolling for ego supply/personal amusement, and legit disturbing aggression/intentional rule violation.

I report stuff that I feel falls in the aggressive/rulestomping category. I actually did make a report recently and the offending post was left up. No big, not my circus, not my monkeys. If the mods leave it up, then I assume they are leaving that poster to be hoisted on their own petard by the RfMers willing to handle the trash.

Sometimes I think they get left up so new or returning RfMers can quickly become familiar with the temperament of various posters and make their own decisions about their credibility. Whether or not that's actually true, I think there's more to the mods' methods than I might usually be aware of. They do a good job keeping the mobots away and RfM is my absolute favorite place for being myself online, flaws and all. (Edit: I meant MY flaws. Not the board's flaws.)

All I know is, I wouldn't want to be a mod. It's waaaaay easier for me to just go, "nope" and dismiss the misogynistic, racist, misanthropic sad sacks from my thoughts. Trying to engage with them is a waste of heartbeats. So I recommend to the regular joes and janes that we just leave their pathetic junkposts to twist alone in the cyberwind and be glad we don't have to live with that person IRL.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2020 04:57PM by ptbarnum.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: January 06, 2020 10:30AM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't think it is simple trolling.

The first three words had some great potential for veracity and substance, but things quickly deteriorated from there onward, into the self assessed expert analyst's typical territory of gratuitous self serving ASSumption and "bilious" utter folly, as usual.

>
> Jordan's misogyny emerged from his divorce five or
> six years ago. He didn't express those feelings
> before then, but then his attitude changed. We
> have a record going back a long time on that.
> Smirkorama has always presented that nuance as
> well.

Presented AS IF the self assessed expert analyst really
did have some grand mastery of time lines and the subjects mentioned, but the self assessed expert analyst's own track record on timelines .....and gross lack of actual chronological authority .... and (profound ignorance on) various subjects in general speaks much differently.

> Freeman has also always complained about his
> marriage, and his MGTOW activism and misogyny
> ensued. For his part macaRomney is consistently
> Mormon--racist, misogynist, anti-intellectual.
> Even when he was Poopstone he did that. There
> have been others over the years. I think we have
> to recognize that these prejudices are bone deep
> in Mormonism and even when people leave, they
> unwittingly bring a lot of those traits with
> them.

once again, the self assessed expert analyst speaks AS IF its own gratuitous self serving prejudices are some unassailable factual foundation of certainty which can then be used to arrive at additional solid conclusions.....

>
> The racism/misogyny is against the board rules and
> could be purged, surely.

and it is a "certainty" that racism /misogyny in others has been in play exactly as the self assessed expert analyst has described .....because the deranged misandrist self assessed expert analyst says so!!!

> But perhaps the admins
> think that there is value in critiquing that
> stuff.

speaking AS IF there has been some grand universal wide ranging broad based critiquing (analysis) of the subjects at hand going on

> I agree with that to some extent although
> it seems likely that this bilious ignorance may
> discourage people from joining, or robustly
> participating in, the community.

WOW!!! Broken clock style incidental /accidental accuracy strikes again !!!

"this bilious ignorance may discourage people from joining in, or robustly participating in, the community "

-CORRECT!!!! THAT "bilious ignorance" of the self assessed expert analyst very well may have that dampening, dissuading, discouraging effect to others, since the self assessed expert analyst's ongoing self congratulatory pablum is NOT anywhere as salient, or meaningful, or enlightening as the self assessed expert analyst would like to "think" that it is.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 06, 2020 03:23PM

smirkorama,

If you think I have Jordan, Free Man, or macaRomney wrong, please tell me how. If you can mount a credible, fact-based argument I am more than happy to reconsider my opinions.

As for you, could you explain how the following post is not irrationally misogynistic?

> Women tend to be more tribal and complaint and
> submissive ........and less analytical than men.
> once again LDS Inc is counting on that fact, IF
> you are female and that generality does not fit
> you, then do not attack me (!!!!!!!), just spend
> your energy on congratulating yourself for being
> an exception instead. However, LDS Inc is
> counting on their FaithFOOL MORmON women to help
> keep the MORmON men anchored in the MORmON cult
> over the long run. and that is a fact !!!!!

There are some sentiments in that passage that seem defensive, even cowardly. Let me explain.


---------------
> Women tend to be more tribal and complaint and
> submissive ........and less analytical than men.

You see, this makes it seem like you exist in The Handmaid's Tale, which is fictional. In the real world, populated by real women and not incel fantasies, you won't find much of what you just described.

Do you know any real women, smirkorama?


-------------------
> IF
> you are female and that generality does not fit
> you, then do not attack me (!!!!!!!), just spend
> your energy on congratulating yourself for being
> an exception instead.

This sounds pusillanimous, smirk. You just described women and here you ask them to please shut up and let your statements stand unquestioned. There would be no need to do that if your claims were accurate--or, in fact, if you were confident enough in your masculinity to state your opinions and leave it at that. But begging people not to challenge you and then congratulate themselves on behaving as you wish seems weak.


-----------------
> However, LDS Inc is
> counting on their FaithFOOL MORmON women to help
> keep the MORmON men anchored in the MORmON cult
> over the long run. and that is a fact !!!!!

Strong men can leave the church all by themselves. They are confident in finding and befriending women outside of the church, even those not as "tribal and complaint [sic] and submissive" as in a Handmaid's Tale.

Can you live in the real world, smirkorama? A world in which women do what they want, men have to earn their respect and affection, and people occasionally use big words?

If not, perhaps you should consider therapy. It can do a lot for people with fragile egos.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: January 06, 2020 07:45PM

The only ones that "know" are admin. The only way they know is with exhaustive use of tools that ONLY admin have. Anything else is just guessing.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 06, 2020 08:22PM

You mean Jordan? He admits as much, including in this thread when he responds to my statement about his marriage and divorce. And as for Hwint, CZ did state that publicly; the same is true of Anon Joe.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: January 06, 2020 09:30PM

Let admin be admin.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 06, 2020 09:34PM

I'm not sure what you are suggesting.

Admin has all right and power to decide whom to expel and whose posts to purge. But I am under no obligation to respect Jordan's latest sock puppet nor to pretend that racism or sexism are something other than what they are.

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Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 07:05AM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure what you are suggesting.
>
> Admin has all right and power to decide whom to
> expel and whose posts to purge. But I am under no
> obligation to respect Jordan's latest sock puppet
> nor to pretend that racism or sexism are something
> other than what they are.

"Free Man" was nothing to do with me. Also, please stop telling folk I am divorced. I have never even proposed to anyone nor wished to be married.

I am in a happy long term relationship just now. It is going well. A wedding would cost us a lot of money, and there is little positive I (or she?) would get from marriage we don't have already.

Also stop saying "Logical Exmo" was me. I sus'd out who it was.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 05, 2020 12:54AM

as much as ChurchCo has 'drawn a line in the sand' on LGBT & feminism, these are loosing battles in the long term.

Women initiate divorces against their doubting spouses 'get it' that they're individuals in various situations independent of their former spouses & actually ChurchCo.

All the past talks against divorce have been so close to forgotten leaving women 'free' to determine their own lives.

Parents & other relatives of LGBT children (my opinion) are semi-secretly dissing / dismissing the anti rhetoric in favor of tolerating / loving these people after they discover their not 'evil' as many - most were taught.

a BYU-I professor is sacked because of her support published on her FB; she was tattle-taled by students in 'true Mormon fashion' Yucck!

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