I've seen that a few times: a physically and mentally vigorous older person falls, breaks a hip and is laid up for a week or so, and that brief period of inactivity makes a major difference in their intellectual as well as bodily health. I once saw a well and alert woman enter a hospital for hip surgery and in the space of a week lose her mind and die. It was quite a shock to witness.
I despise Pope Francis for his failure to deal with endemic molestation and concealment. But I think that knocking down the hand of a person who, in her thoughtlessness, endangers an older person is understandable even if in some senses suboptimal.
She almost pulled him.over and then wouldn't let go. She startled him and possibly hurt him. He is 83 years old after all. Also considering the shooting of John Paul he may well have feared for his safery. She could have had a weapon. I wonder where security was. Oh, yeah, he publicly apologized the next day. Bottom line, you don't grab and jerk people like that.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2020 08:03PM by bona dea.
Yes, whether his slapping that woman's wrist was appropriate is an entirely different, and less important, matter than what he has done to children.
His apologists tell us he really will help the kids; he just needs more time. Of course, he became pope nearly six years ago. . . And perhaps his most important move regarding child abuse was to prevent the American council of bishops from promulgating a new and more aggressive policy for containing and punishing child-molesting priests in the United States. Just wait, he and his defenders said, because Francis is putting the final touches on a universal strategy. But of course that church-wide strategy never came.
An old man has the right, I believe, to knock away the hand of a stranger who yanks him forcefully and won't let him go. But we should not forget that Francis is a man who continues to protect child molesters. Jesus's demand that people do no harm to little children is the rubric by which Francis will ultimately be judged--and condemned.
> An old man has the right, I believe, to knock away > the hand of a stranger who yanks him forcefully > and won't let him go.
> But we should not forget > that Francis is a man who continues to protect > child molesters.
the self assessed intellectually superior should not forget!!!!!! ......when they are not otherwise completely distracted with siding with the (child molestation facilitating) pope for being slappy ....and issuing endless self impressed dissertations on that topic !!!!!
Yes, the woman was wrong and aggressive. She had just crossed herself and seemed desperate to reach him. I don't think she was trying to injure him. She probably didn't realize how dangerous and painful what she did might be for an older person. She probably feels horrible. But, I agree she was a jerk. She should have just given up on her one and only chance to touch him when he turned away.
Next, what struck me as possibly a glimpse into the real pope was that his reaction was to slap her and scowl. I've had situations like that where I was actually hurt and my first instinct was not to slap. I'd make a sound of pain but I've never slapped anyone no matter how much they deserved it or how mad I was. I found it odd that his automatic response was to hit a desperate woman's hand. Behind his waving and smile I wonder how much he really respects the people desperate to touch him.
Lastly, what is up with his security team? Why would they not be closer and on top of situations like that?
He obviously realized after the clip with his nasty scowl went viral what people will see about his inclination (or lack of) for compassion. I'm glad he apologized.
That expression could have been shock, fear or pain or a combination. Assuming it was only anger is just an assumption- maybe correct.maybe not. We also don't know what she said to him.He is human and acted spontaneously to being yanked. I don't think his reaction was out of line although if he had had the time to think about it, there probably were better ways to handle it.I would have probably slapped her hands too and used a bit of profanity to round it off.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2020 08:29PM by bona dea.
He obviously regretted it but she was the one at fault or mostly at fault IMO. Perhaps she should apologize to him. I think this has been blown out of proportion anyway. She startled him and yanked him to the point he almost lost his balqnce. It probably hurt and may have though she meant him bodily harm. He was annoyed,possibly in pain and possibly scared and slightly slapped her hand away. He may be pope but he is also a human being . I would probably have reacted in a similar way myself.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2020 01:42AM by bona dea.
dagny Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- She should have just given up on her one > and only chance to touch him when he turned away.
This is the problem with the worship of ecclesiastical figures, be they Joseph Smith, Prophet Rusty, EL-ron Hubbard, or Pope Francis.The entire episode strikes me as a ridiculous parody of the "woman with the issue of blood" who wanted nothing more than to touch the hem of Christ's robe. At least she got healed!
This is an organization where some people are trying to touch anything in hopes of being healed, blessed, close to God, etc. They try to kiss rings and want to show their respect. The Church knows full well they have zealous believers out there and encourages that kind of devotion. They shouldn't be surprised if believers act out. The woman had just crossed herself and seemed shocked to be scolded. I'm guessing she found a way to apologize back.
What did they expect is going to happen to holy celebrity rock star in a crowd? They screwed up. Any celebrity knows what can happen if the fans get close.
And John Paul was shot by a man in the crowd who appeared to be there to be there to see the pope. How do you tell who is a potential assassin and who is an overdramatic Catholic who wants to touch the pope? Short answer- you cant.
>>How do you tell who is a potential assassin and who is an overdramatic Catholic who wants to touch the pope? Short answer- you cant.
So possibly he just happened to turn to walk away right in front of the person who wanted to assault him! What a coincidence! Plus she went to all the trouble to cross herself for show. I wonder where she was hiding her gun.
Point taken though. We don't know her motives. I hope she speaks out to tell what happened from her perspective.
Where was John Paul's would be assassin hiding his gun? How about the killers of the Kennedys or MLK or John Lennon? It isn't that hard to hide a handgun or knife. A.rifle is a bigger problem Not saying that is what she was doing, If she had a weapon, we would know by now. If I were as well known as the pope and someone grabbed me that way, it would certainly cross my mind that she might be trying to harm me.
I'd give anyone who voices an apology a bit of slack;
yes, his 'people' should have done a better job, but his holiness choose to be so close.
I've attended Mass a few times with a friend & I limit comparisons between ChurchCo & the G&A; Catholics are much more about pure religion (Kindness, Honesty, etc) - not withstanding this incident - than most Mormons, that's plain to me.
IMO, the pope was out of line; if he decided to walk amongst his people, he and his body guards are aware of the risks involved in doing so. The pope was born and raised in Argentina. My husband said his reaction is typical of Latin American culture.
If you do something wrong in public, you'll receive an immediate reprimand; none of the :"Just wait until I get you home" business.
Not condoning the pope's reaction, but that is probably why he reacted the way he did.