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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 07:06PM

The question is this::Using your priesthood do you have the authority to act in Gods name?
If you use this power to heal a sick person is God obligated to do so?
No "if God so desires?" You either have the power or you don't
There is no if, and , nor but about it. Black and white print.
you either have it or you don't!!
OK FORUM KICK THIS AROUND!!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 07:13PM

You forgot to mention the 'faith the size of a mustard seed'...

And there's always the out: "Ghawd intended for him catch 6th stage cancer of skin and scalp and be in agony for 13 weeks before catching fire and finally dying! It was all part of The Plan™ᶞ"

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 07:21PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You forgot to mention the 'faith the size of a
> mustard seed'...
>
> And there's always the out: "Ghawd intended for
> him catch 6th stage cancer of skin and scalp and
> be in agony for 13 weeks before catching fire and
> finally dying! It was all part of The Plan™ᶞ"
Then by this statement it is admitted that the performer "DID NOT" have the power to act in God's name

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 07:28PM

Attempting to speak on behalf of a believer is tough. Personally I think it's obvious that I agree with you, there is no control over events exerted by faithful priesthood holders.

But THEY always come up with an explanation that validates their actions. THEY think they can speak for ghawd, but that occasionally, for reasons of his own, THEY get overruled.

They have to give themselves an out, lest facts overwhelm belief. Can't have that, you know!

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Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 08:15PM

The magic of the laying on of hands is that it can be spun into a faith promoting fable no matter how it turns out.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 08:18PM

I don't know that he had a "blessing," but his name was put in the temple so damn many times, you'd think something would have happened. I'm being sarcastic, but always have to say it.

I love the signs I see at other churches that say God or Jesus can do anything for you. I'm still waiting. It has been how many years now?

I told him I'd put his name in at the temple to pray that there will be no more snow in Cache Valley until he retires in 3 years and 3 months, and if that prayer is answered, then we'll go back to church. It snowed today, but I haven't put his name in yet.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 08:52PM

Just like my father proceeded to die of kidney disease, despite my very earnest, urgent, and frequently-repeated prayers.

My mother had threatened to slap me if I cried at any time during the funeral process, hissing at me, "Daddy would be SO ASHAMED of you, if you cried!" so I just put myself into a "numb" sort of mode.

For a long, long time, I heard the old saws about how faith can move mountains, grow out a mustard seed, yada, yada - when an old lady who was a friend of my grandmother's told me, "Maybe it wasn't God's will for your father to be healed" - that sealed the deal for me. Why on earth would any deity worth its salt kill off a kind and loving father, leaving a grieving teenaged daughter with an abusive, short-tempered mother who would become even worse due to alcohol?

As far as I can tell, homeopathic medications are more effective than prayer, and homeopathy doesn't have that great of a track record.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 10:12AM

died of lung cancer at age 37 and had 6 children, ages 16 to 3. She was sure she would be cured. Her father was a SP and they had the GAs supposedly praying for her. She died. It was a real shock to me. I asked my good friend, who was a bishop, about it and he said he sees life as a crap shoot. He said the leaders wouldn't agree with him. He also said that God would be crying over her death.

I had to find my own answers to my husband being gay. I don't know what I believe in and who knows where this came from, but I was out walking cussing God for giving me THIS LIFE as in mormonism we are taught that he knew prior to our lives what they would be life and I remember well a talk given where they said he knew previously if we would stay the course or leave the church. I always thought I'd prove to him if he thought I'd leave, he'd be wrong. So I thought God knew all. So I was cussing him like usual as I walked at the track and the answer I got, "This is not what I wanted for your life, but THIS IS your life." Whether it was my own inner voice or not. It helped to know that if there is a God, he wouldn't choose this for my life.

I don't want my ex to be straight. Gay is a HUGE PART of who he is and, as irritating as he can be at times, he is a very unique individual. I wish I could give to him a partner, but I think religion and society have destroyed his chances.

I keep putting things like I've prayed for him to be straight because I read these things about gays still going to church and religion asking them to CHANGE. Someone just posted a link yesterday about a woman who the mormon leaders put in conversion therapy.

I'm so sorry about your father. I have an older sister who used to whisper things in my ears like what you posted about your mother. When I read it, it brought back the things I try to suppress. My sister and I have been at odds for about 13 years now. I finally got tired of her bullying. I hope your son is doing well. Would a transplant be possible for him and would it help him at all? I am glad you have a good husband, that you are not alone.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: January 01, 2020 09:00PM

My Mom phones in my name to her temple every month.

She has faith that I will someday return to LDS Corp.

-It ain't gonna be happening.

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Posted by: dumbmormons ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 09:12AM

Going a bit further.

An ordinance is performed by someone definitely Unworthy - say like a Child Molesting Bishop.

Why isn't it done over?

-------------------------

Second one.

Do you, Bishop - really, honestly believe American Indians descended from Israelites? (Mitt Romney refused to answer that one)

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 03:57PM

who, at the time, was cheating with other men. We just went through the motions so family didn't ask what was going on in our lives. We were hiding it all.

Now, since he was not "worthy" in the mormon scheme of things, my daughter is TBM and she says it sticks and my son is not a believer of any kind and he says it didn't stick.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 10:17PM

dumbmormons Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Going a bit further.
>
> An ordinance is performed by someone definitely
> Unworthy - say like a Child Molesting Bishop.
>
> Why isn't it done over?
>
> -------------------------

Members buy into the idea that God's purpose will supercede an inferior vessel to move his work along.

I know it's the exact opposite of the verbal abuse that leaders push on their members. Ex. Mission President chastises missionaries for failing to reach their monthly baptismal goals."Some of you are unworthy of the spirit and it shows. You failed to reach your goals and it's a direct result of your lack of obedience to the missionary rules."

By all accounts, there is no way in hell that Nelson should be profit, top leader in the church. Why?

-Well, he was inactive as a youth. He missed primary and boy scouts all together. Moreover, he didn't serve a church mission!

However, he performed a surgery on Kimball and he was made an apostle on the spot!

Contrast that with the endless personal priesthood interviews that I suffered through as a youth.

YM prez "How do you expect to please Heavenly Father if you don't attend church every Sunday?"

-I don't know. My family went out of town to visit a family member. I even told you two weeks ago that I would not be in attendance.

YM prez "You'll need to repent or the spirit won't be with you. You can't magnify your priesthood when you miss attending church."

A whole lotta doo-doo.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 09:59AM

I don't think there are any bishops around here but in mormon theology a man gains further power as he progresses. Meaning that the power to do anything you want comes later, Moses was 80 years old when he crossed the Red Sea and got his awesome powers. In the Bom Helaman 10:5-7 it says this about magic powers:

5 And now, because thou hast done this with such unwearyingness, behold, I will bless thee forever; and I will make thee mighty in word and in deed, in faith and in works; yea, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will.

6 Behold, thou art Nephi, and I am God. Behold, I declare it unto thee in the presence of mine angels, that ye shall have power over this people, and shall smite the earth with famine, and with pestilence, and destruction, according to the wickedness of this people.

7 Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven; and thus shall ye have power among this people.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 10:54AM

Sorry, that is not Mormon theology, even though it is widely believed among the rank and file, though the pecking order is based more on church calling rather than age.

If you are really sick, you try to get the bishop or high councilman or SP to give the blessing. If you know a GA, you've struck gold. Get him to do it. They all have better juju than we mortals.

This was/is enough of a problem that the church has, on several ocassions, announced a policy that you are supposed to contact you Home Teachers for things like administering to sick. It is the power of the priesthood that heals the sick, not the person giving the blessing.

This was done to stop the pecking order arms race to see who had enough pull to get the highest ranking authority to give them a blessing.

My mom knew about the policy, but she didn't care. When my dad was about to die, she called the SP to come administer. Dad was on the high council, so she figured she was entitled. So what could the SP do. He came over. Two days later my dad died as expected, and the "God's will was done" cliche got trotted out.

Mom clearly believed higher authorities got better results from blessings, but that is not the official policy. I have to side with the church on this one. A Home Teacher's blessing is every bit as good as an apostle's blessing.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 10:21PM

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Mom clearly believed higher authorities got better
> results from blessings, but that is not the
> official policy. I have to side with the church on
> this one. A Home Teacher's blessing is every bit
> as good as an apostle's blessing.

Since it's all a bunch of hooey (priesthood power), you might as well call a bunch of 8 or 9 year-olds to come pray over you.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 11:47AM

To OP

That's four questions, not one.

You owe smirkorama/schrodingerscat $5 for trademark infringement.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 10:37PM

Though very few priesthood holders would admit it out loud, most know deep inside "the priesthood" has no magical powers, that they never felt like God was working through them, and it's really all about authority and control.

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Posted by: celeste ( )
Date: January 02, 2020 11:21PM

If a priesthood person gives a blessing and it doesn’t work, the party line is that the receiver is not worthy. So a true blue believer would say yes, the bishop acts in God’s behalf and what he says goes except for that pesky worthiness issue. When you say it out loud, sounds like a bunch of tweens arguing.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: January 03, 2020 02:39AM

What the Mormons have done to you.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: January 03, 2020 11:11AM

When my wife was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer I did not pray that she would be healed. I stopped praying decades ago. I just took care of her until her last breath.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: January 03, 2020 02:29PM

to:Lethbridge Reprobate
This was my position exactly when my wife was dying from lung cancer

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: January 03, 2020 02:25PM

OK from what I see here the bish does not have the POWER to act in God's name! Agreed?

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