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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 03:07PM

I read this one early in my progression to the age of not believing.

https://www.amazon.com/Early-Mormonism-Magic-World-View/dp/1560850892

Later after several more books I read this.

https://www.amazon.com/Under-Banner-Heaven-Story-Violent/dp/1400032806

I'm related to Rulon Jeffs (grandfather) and it sealed my endowment with further light and knowledge of the Mormon fraud.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 06:08PM

"In Sacred Loneliness" was another I read after I left the church.

Miracle of Forgiveness was a tough one. I reread the gay chapter so many times I about had it memorized and I didn't feel it had ANY ANSWERS whatsoever. The part about pounding on the door until your hands were bloodied, I feel I beat the door down.

There were many books I read that started me questioning, but I don't remember what they were.

It was mostly life experience, as I've discussed, that got me out.

Oh, that set of books by Gerald Lund (is it). The one that started talking about polygamy and speaking in tongues was the last one I read. I found it very unsettling.

I should add Miracle of Forgiveness. So depressing.

Interesting thing is that when I was first dealing with finding out my boyfriend was gay, there was a book of talks given by Boyd that had "To The One" in it. My friend had told me about the talk and thought I should read it. It was very depressing, but I thought some of the talks were pretty good and so I bought it for my mother for Christmas. She was the driving force behind us all going to church since my dad didn't very often. She told me some months later that she was sorry, but she had given the book away as every talk she read made her feel inadequate and depressed. THIS was shocking to me. She was the one who told me that I could be spiritual and not be any religion when my father was still trying to figure out why I didn't go back to the lds church. When my sister asked which church she should take her son to, my mother suggested the Methodists as she had heard good things about the one in Brigham City. My dad was not pleased. I still get a kick out of that one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2020 10:50AM by cl2.

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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 06:23PM

Carl Segan's "Cosmos" and Richard Dawkins "A Brief History of Time".

Both of those books help me understand the scientific argument for the creation of the Universe. I slowly began to realize that the mormon view of cosmology was not correct at all. Not even a little bit.

This got me to admit the church was not true but it was still many years later when I realized that it is truly a cult.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: January 13, 2020 09:12AM

I love Richard Dawkins, but I think Stephen Hawking was responsible for "A Brief History of Time"

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 13, 2020 10:59AM

Maybe it is Dawkin's new book, *"A Brief History of Mime: How The Selfish Memes took over the world."

*tonge in cheek

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 13, 2020 01:35PM

Please keep your tongue to yourself.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 13, 2020 02:02PM

I kneed to bow and my tongue compress.

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Posted by: praydude ( )
Date: January 14, 2020 01:41PM

I have the memory of an old person. Probably because I'm old.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 06:52PM

The changing world of mormonism by the tanners, I found mildly disturbing 20 years ago. And also a book about the Abraham papyrus dilemma.

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Posted by: oxymormon ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 07:49PM

No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: January 10, 2020 07:51PM

That would have required having some faith to begin with

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 11:02AM

LOL!

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 10:00AM

Blood of the Prophets by Will Bagley. When I finished reading that, I knew it was time to resign.

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Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 10:35AM

I read one called The Book of Mormon looking for "the fullness of the gospel". I couldn't find anything about the pre-existence, temples, three degrees of glory, tithing, new & everlasting covenant and etc, etc, etc.

That shook what little faith I had.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 11:04AM

Shinehah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I read one called The Book of Mormon looking for
> "the fullness of the gospel". I couldn't find
> anything about the pre-existence, temples, three
> degrees of glory, tithing, new & everlasting
> covenant and etc, etc, etc.

I found prophets in it working for their own support and not living off the people. It was fiction when I realized that my chief judges didn't do that from this the most correct of books.

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 01:35PM

| ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄|
|^^^^......THIS......^^^^|
|~what shinehah said~~|
|___________|
`````\ (•◡•) /
``````` \ /
``````` ---
``````` | |

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 01:39PM


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Posted by: Ex-Cultmember ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 01:11PM

The first thing I read that initially bothered me was some book sold at Barnes n Noble back in 1994 on Utah history written by a non-Mormon that brought up a lot of troubling items like plural marriage.

Next I read the Godmakers. I would say this book was the first thing I read which really shook my faith and was the beginning of my “faith crisis.” It’s a shitty book of course but there’s enough in there that’s actually true that it could still shake a Mormon’s faith.

On my mission in the mid 90’s, I read or browsed a number of books that helped chip away at my already Mormon testimony. There were several anti-Mormon tracts and books, none of which were great but had enough troubling items to glean from. Quinn’s book Origins of Mormonism really chipped away my testimony.

Mormonism-Shadow or Reality by the Tanners was the nail in the coffin for me. It OBLITERATED my testimony. The Tanners exhaustively cover just about everything in this book. After a few hours into that book, I admitted to myself for the first time that I no longer believed the church was true. I no longer questioned. My testimony was no longer salvageable.

After my mission, I read several scholarly type books such as those by signature books. Many of those really cleaned up many of the supposed “proofs” such as Chiasmus, BOA links to ancient texts, etc. I now knew pretty much anything that supposedly proved or supported the supernatural truth claims of Mormonism could be logically and convincingly explained away.

I was an in the closet non-believer at this point. I suppose I was a “NOM” at this point. I still was active and supported the church but I just didn’t think it was “true” anymore. I still liked the church and supported it but I didn’t turn “anti” until I started reading from the apologetic websites, such as FARMS. Their flippant, arrogant attitude and ad hominem style attacks on the so-called anti-Mormons really turned me off and started to make me resent the church and it’s apologists.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 02:21PM

Ex-Cultmember Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The first thing I read that initially bothered me
> was some book sold at Barnes n Noble back in 1994
> on Utah history written by a non-Mormon that
> brought up a lot of troubling items like plural
> marriage..

Under The Banner of Heaven?
I was going to say that, total shocker that made me consider that the leaders were lying.
Then Steve Benson's "Why I Left" paper, confirmed that suspicion.
Insider's View of Mormon Origins brought up serious moral problems with dishonest Mormon founders, especially Joseph's Myth and Breed'em Young.
In Sacred Loneliness was the deathnail for my faith in Joseph's Myth and the Exploitative and abusive Doomsday CULT he created to prey upon dupes, like me and my unfortunately easily deceived ancestors.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 05:47PM

schrodingerscat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In Sacred Loneliness was the deathnail for my
> faith in Joseph's Myth and the Exploitative and
> abusive Doomsday CULT he created to prey upon
> dupes, like me and my unfortunately easily
> deceived ancestors.

We had similar reads into the mists of darkness for Mormons. ;) ISL was a significant part of my leaving Mormonism. Any plural wife even today in the Mormon myth is accepting the risk of being like those woman were. Mormon women have no shot at equality.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 06:04PM

When I first heard about “In Sacred Loneliness” I was certain it was about masturbation.

But apparently the name of THAT book is “In Lonely Loneliness.”

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 07:09PM

Better abused than self abused? Not amused.

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Posted by: Ex-Cultmember ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 05:03PM

Unfortunately, those books weren’t around when I was still in.

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Posted by: TommyBoy ( )
Date: January 11, 2020 01:53PM

The New Testament, New International Version (NIV)

“Hey, this Jesus salvation message sure ain’t the same as the Mormon salvation message. Why, it ain’t even the same message those Mormons told me them Christians believe in. This here’s the funny thing though. What them there Christians teach and what the New Testanemt says is, more often than not, pretty much the same thing.”

The Mormon “translated correctly” and “plain and precious parts” line wears mighty thin once you take a closer look.

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Posted by: Adult of god nli ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 01:39AM

The Source by James Michener

I read it probably soon after it came out in 1965. It was/is fabulous historical fiction set in what has become Israel over human history. I couldn’t see the morg or any religion as divine after that. It was a very impactful book for me.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 04:15PM

You know, your post highlights an important omission in Western Literature: A fulsome, but yet delicate, retelling of the Life & Times of Adam & Eve following the door to Eden hitting them in their respective asses.

Putting us with them there as they have their first babies; she raising them as he builds a business with an office to go to six days a week, then watching their kids pair up and have babies of their own! Imagine Eve's delight as she helps watch the grand kids grow up and pair off, or triple, quadruple off, what with their desire to please the Lord of Hostess cupcakes!

Then following them into retirement, watching the kids argue about who to let them live with them...

Their joint funeral, with the chapel full of all relations, albeit with the unfortunate "Whites Only" seating at the front of the chapel...followed by the burial right next to the Prayer Altar, at Adam-ondi-Ahman... Goosebumps!

I'd write it, but I'm not in tune with the Lord right now, what with NFL play-off football in the offing.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 01:55AM

Mountain Meadows Massacre by Juanita Brooks.
I also read her bio written by Levi Peterson.

if the Facts of the incident didn't get me, the lame-o excuses / cover-up / explanations did.

At least (as memory serves) when Juanita went to the GAs, one of them left the crucial files on his desk, told Juanita not to open/look at them, and left the room.


That's back to the days when there was a spark of Honesty / Ethics left in ChurchCo, long ago.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2020 02:14PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 12:30PM

They seem to like it because they don't take historical stories very personally, I guess.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2020 12:31PM by Cheryl.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: January 13, 2020 09:17AM


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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 03:02PM

Playboy swimsuit issue

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 03:44PM

Do U mean Sports Illustrated?

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 04:11PM

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do U mean Sports Illustrated?
Not hardly

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 05:13PM

But for Playboy to have a swimsuit edition, the models would have to put clothes ON!

I think you're thinking of the Sports Illustrated February swim suit edition. It's an wonderful winter bonus!

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 13, 2020 11:00AM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's an wonderful
> winter bonus!


Did you mean boner not bonus?

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Posted by: new guy ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 04:15PM

The Bible. Every species of animals currently on earth fit on a 450 foot boat? Yup i believe that. Plus all their food.The ones from other continents swam to get there and then back home. Yeah right.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 05:05PM

The Bible
"All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense." Leviticus 20:9

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: January 12, 2020 05:37PM

Late addition: Hope for the Flowers

I read this book back in the eighties when the Mormon church was deep in its "Pursuit of Excellence" (aka idolizing corporate tyrants) phase.

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: January 13, 2020 09:33AM

"Foundation Trilogy" by Isaac Asimov.

My teenage self said, "Screw the priesthood! I want to be a psychohistorian."

A close second was probably "The Holy Bible". There was a wide disconnect between the lessons the nuns and priests were teaching me from the bible and what I was actually reading in the very same book.

Talk about discernment failures among Mormon Priesthood holders, the Catholic clergy that spent so much effort recruiting me to become a priest had no idea that I was an apatheist who wanted nothing to do with religion. Sure, I could parrot back to them bible verses, but none of them had a clue that I was only biding my time until I was out on my own and not having to account for my absences from Sunday masses.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: January 13, 2020 01:07PM

Sometime in the late 1980s, my local PBS station committed itself to devote a program about the Godmakers. I had no idea what the heck this was about, but it was a BIG DEAL at the time. A letter was read over the pulpit by the bishop. It announced the day and time and that we as members were STRONGLY advised to not watch it. Moreover, we were asked to boycott the station and to write petition letters demanding the PBS channel to not air it. My Mom wrote one and forged the signatures of every Goop. I suffered through an unbearable f/t meeting where one lady had blotted out her KVIE tote bag and calling the station anti-mormon. Others got up and testified that they knew the truth unlike the persecutors of the church.

So the night of the airing, I gave in and returned to my deserted living room about 11pm. PBS was one of two channels that was clear and sharp from antennae airwaves. I watched with the sound turned down. And there before my eyes, I saw the strangest thing. Several men and women in goofy white costumes and green aprons. Then there was all this pantomime of cutting the throat and other gestures of self-violence.

I didn't watch the entire thing or with sound, but damn it was freaky! My Mom's spiritual danger meter must have gone off as she came marching into the kitchen. I jumped up and turned off the TV.

-Oh you're still up. You need to get to bed. You have school tomorrow.

I still believe that the temple experience makes people ill.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2020 01:18PM by messygoop.

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Posted by: icanseethelight ( )
Date: January 13, 2020 01:12PM

The Book of Mormon.

Any real god would not let that shitty writing represent him.

Read "The Godmakers"...went to the temple 2 months later...

I was done. It took me almost 20 years to GTFO but I finally did.

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