Hello, I'm not a Mormon, but my wife is. We were jw's for several decades, and 12 years ago we decided to leave that group. My wife jumped full force right into Mormonism even though I wanted nothing to do with them. I felt that I needed time to rediscover what my true spiritual needs were. I've been reading about, and attending several different religious services during this time, and becoming honest with myself as to what I believe, and just who I am. But on the other hand, the Mormons have been consistently trying to get me to join their group. Some people are really smooth with their reasonings, and others are just rude and ignorant regarding what I believe, ( its never good enough, I need to read the Mormon book in order to be happy). Are there any ideas regarding how to stop their efforts to convert me, and yet have my wife not look at me as a "non-believer" (is that the correct term)? I honestly feel every time Mormons stop by or we attend some event at a home, that a school of sharks is circling,just waiting for an opportunity.

LOL, I have no solution for you. I was a "project" from when I left Mo-ism in my 20s until I finally outlived my parents. I always figured that's what it would take to "win", and it turned out I was right. That's not much of a solution.

Congratulations, however, on having what I consider to be a near perfect grasp of the problem. The purpose of Mormonism is to create more Mormons. You are the readily available, low-hanging fruit.

Fruit-eating sharks. Who'd have thunk?

Sharks is the right word.

If you wife gets in there will be no end to their attempts to covert you. She will not be "whole" until she is sealed in the temple to her husband.

There is not a lot you can do to juggle keeping your wife happy and keeping them away. Several people on this board are in similar situations and have worked things out.

You might have to fight fire with fire. Say you prayed about it and got an answer that the BoM is not part of your spiritual path, blah blah.

The bigger question is how someone who was a JW can buy Mormonism. There appears to be some kind of need your wife can't get met emotionally or socially without religion. If she is a reader and somewhat of a logical thinker, she could study her way out. Who knows.

The poster Nightingale here was once a JW, then a Mormon. We hear from JWs here occasionally. Their stories are similar.

Meanwhile, you are stuck with the sharks circling. You might have to get pushy and tell them you are not interested and to leave you alone.

Oh, wow. Both the JWs and the Mormons are what are known as high-control groups. Talk about jumping from the frying pan into the fire!

Just remember that you don't owe any Mormon an explanation or justification for what you do (or don't) believe. I would quit discussing religion with them. Just shut them down with a simple, "Not interested." Then change the subject. Don't play their game!

Like the JWs, Mormonism is a missionary religion, so yes, they will likely never quit as long as your wife is a member. If they keep pressing, I would ask them, "I'm sorry, do you have a problem with socializing with non-Members? Are you prejudiced? Does your church encourage the shunning of non-Members? When they deny it, say, "Oh, that's great. I would hate to think you wouldn't accept me as I am." Then quickly change the subject. I wouldn't discuss the JWs with them either. Take religion off the table altogether.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2020 05:04PM by summer.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take religion off the table altogether.

And try to learn how to ignore their blessings over their food.

Thank you all for your comments, and suggestions ! I'll apply these whenever I can.
This video is the closest illustration I can find regarding the constant pressure to join their church. ( Mormons are the Hyenas)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5V6gdu5ih8



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2020 02:36PM by stan.

stan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello, I'm not a Mormon, but my wife is. We were
> jw's for several decades, and 12 years ago we
> decided to leave that group. My wife jumped full
> force right into Mormonism even though I wanted
> nothing to do with them. I felt that I needed time
> to rediscover what my true spiritual needs were.
> I've been reading about, and attending several
> different religious services during this time, and
> becoming honest with myself as to what I believe,
> and just who I am. But on the other hand, the
> Mormons have been consistently trying to get me to
> join their group. Some people are really smooth
> with their reasonings, and others are just rude
> and ignorant regarding what I believe, ( its never
> good enough, I need to read the Mormon book in
> order to be happy). Are there any ideas regarding
> how to stop their efforts to convert me, and yet
> have my wife not look at me as a "non-believer"
> (is that the correct term)? I honestly feel every
> time Mormons stop by or we attend some event at a
> home, that a school of sharks is circling,just
> waiting for an opportunity.

Look here boy! Y'all better get in the true believer line or yall's gwine ta be in some sorry trubble

They won't ever stop. Even if they aren't overtly trying to convert you, they will try more covert methods.

Maybe the surest (although still temporary) way is to offend those trying to reel you in. Fortunately, mormons are easily offended.

- Mormons hate swearing, so drop a few F-bombs into your conversations.

- Mormons hate it when others refer to their cult as a cult. They also hate it when you use the word "mormon." (This is a recent development.) So use the phrase "mormon cult" a lot.

- Mormons hate it when people don't show proper deference to their leaders, so make it a point to talk trash about Russell Nelson, their so-called "prophet." For example, "Russ Nelson can kiss my ass" will get the desired reaction, as will "Dallin Oaks is a piece of shit" or "Dave Bednar is an asshole." (It helps that the last two statements are demonstrably true.)

They will back off for a while, then regroup after a few months and try again. Repeat as necessary.

Hi stan:

As Dagny said above, I was baptized as a JW at age 18 and stayed in for seven years. I had gone to Quebec as a "missionary" for a year and had a lot of questions at that point that couldn't be answered. When they objected to me leaving to return home here to B.C. where my father was gravely ill it really opened my eyes. What kind of religious group seeks to separate/estrange people from their family?

Oh wait, we know the answer to that. Obedience to the organization above all.

It didn't mean that I could easily discard all the teachings and I did miss my JW friends (who couldn't speak to me because I had left - full force shunning in effect). But thankfully, I had the instinct that the right thing to do was to be with my mom and younger siblings who needed me.

It turned out to be some kind of experiment, or something, as, sure enough once away from their grip and back with my family I could think more clearly and realize the group was too controlling, too narrow, and did not employ the basic Bible principles I thought were paramount. The leadership is controlling and cold and cruel and rules over the members and controls their lives to the point it's hard to have an independent thought. That was my experience as a convert - I can't imagine how much deeper the programming runs for people who are born into the group. They don't believe in free will at all, seeking to control a member's thoughts and actions and life rather than giving room for people to be individuals and to exercise their own free choices.

Despite my negative experiences with how my JW sojourn ended, I had had what I thought were good friends there and I had fond memories of enjoyable times with them. I didn't miss the sense of control and lack of personal choice.


>The bigger question is how someone who was a JW can buy Mormonism.

I can see from a rational perspective that this would be hard to imagine. But I was one who tried both groups, with an EV period in between. All I can say is that with the Mormons, after negative experiences in other churches after I had left the JWs, it was almost like coming home in a sense in that it was familiar to me, reminiscent of my JW days which, as above, I had mostly enjoyed until the end.

Too, Mormon beliefs were not front and centre in their proselytizing process. When I see on this board some of the more outlandish Mormon ideas and history I am surprised as, obviously, they don't spend any time expounding doctrine with potential converts nor are they focused on the sect's history. Rather, they emphasize quick baptism and tell you that all will be revealed after that and especially after you go to the temple. Both those promises I found to be false. The whole thing was a blur to me re doctrine, history and beliefs. They switch from pressure to be baptized to giving you a calling after you get dunked and stating all their requirements for you as a member with no further "light and knowledge" being given. I went right from the dunk tank to Primary, "teaching" kids about Mormonism when I knew nothing myself. True enough, I was an idiot for joining a group about which I knew very little. The only chance I may have had to learn more at church was if I had been allowed to attend the Relief Society meetings after the main Sunday meeting (sacrament meeting).

I determined at some point that the Mormons were engaging in double talk with me, always promising enlightenment but never delivering. Eventually, after many negative experiences, I left. Nobody ever contacted me to see what was up or to try to get me to go back. I figured they were as happy to see the back of me as I was to be rid of them.

It's hard to explain why I would join a group that in many ways, on the surface at least, is like the JWs (although I know most Mormons and exmos don't think so). To me, in crucial ways, they are very similar and that's what snagged me, I think. I didn't fit in with the EVs and was kind of pre-programmed by my JW experience. One aspect that appealed to me for reasons I don't understand is that neither group was part of the religious establishment and I thought that was a big point in their favour.

It sounds funny but I'm really not joking: Everything I learned about Mormonism I've got from this board. Even after years of posting here I still get surprised at some of the doctrine that's mentioned that I'd never heard of before.

I think my biggest mistake was assuming that Mormonism was just an offshoot Christian group. There is an ongoing tussle here and in the outside world at the charge that Mormons aren't Christian. I don't have the academic or religious knowledge to give a definitive opinion on that. I just assumed they were and never heard any of their teachings that would have alerted me to anything different.


dagny: >There appears to be some kind of need your wife can't get met emotionally or socially without religion. If she is a reader and somewhat of a logical thinker, she could study her way out. Who knows.

I don't know. For me it was just a case that I always believed in a creator - I just didn't know which church to join. It's definitely true that it's a good idea to be widely read and to listen to many points of view.

Going from JW to LDS quickly is not a great idea, in my opinion. You need a breathing space to hopefully get a chance to adjust your perspective.

As a Mormon who had been a JW, and as a new "convert" (I always say I didn't really convert because I had no great depth of belief in Mormonism) the missionaries took me to their meetings with other prospective converts. One such was a JW lady who had "a few questions" for them before she would commit to LDS baptism. Her husband was Jewish. With any questions she asked, that in retrospect I may not even have answered correctly, I could see him getting more and more discouraged as I was able to bridge that gap for her between having been a JW and becoming a Mormon. Obviously, that was an outcome he was hoping wouldn't happen. I really hope I didn't influence her to get baptized.


My advice would still be for anyone to take some time following leaving the JWs. Especially if you were born in, there's a whole big world out there to get to know. It can take a long time to clear one's mind. I would advise to take a break from religion. I know that is hard for a person who's been steeped in it and believes they must always be doing something to indicate their commitment to God. It's OK to pause and rest a while. I think there are even scriptures that would indicate that. One that helped me greatly was "Be still and know that I am God" - to me it meant it was OK not to always be rushing off to meetings or agitating to know "truth" asap. Yes, I still believed in God after being a JW and a Mormon and following several highly negative experiences with various Christian denominations. I came to think I was seriously warped as I couldn't just find a church place to settle into. One of the "problems" with that, I came to realize, is that I asked questions (finally, after giving especially the JWs but also the Mormons a big fat pass on that) and it disturbed people as if questions = doubt or lack of faith or disobedience or any of the other traits that some religious people find so disturbing and distasteful.

I find there is a lot of misunderstanding and perhaps unnecessary aversion to the two "cults" as people consider them, of JWs and Mormons. But that's just how it appears to me and in my own experience. I don't think I was that weird but some people reacted with hostility towards me after learning I had been JW and/or Mormon.

It's not a history I'm proud of or that I trumpet from the rooftops. I'm embarrassed at this point about it. I'm even embarrassed here on RfM as the more years that go by the stupider it seems that I did that to myself - both severe self-inflicted injuries. It's wasted a lot of time and changed my life markedly in that my association with each group came at pivotal points in my life and drastically influenced some major life decisions. Especially being a JW at an early age, it influenced my choices about marriage. I had a distinct aversion to their insistence on young and early and quick marriage (do it fast before you "sin") and am *very* glad I resisted that particular pressure. I feel that if I'd married a JW man I may never have come out of the group. With the Mormons, I just feel that I wasted three prime years I'll never get back. And it was a mind-bending trip, for sure. Perhaps coincidently, but maybe not, I have not married.

I would *highly* recommend a significant break before leaping into another offshoot group after having just left one. If the JWs still shun you for leaving (I believe they still do) then you and your wife will have been cut off from all your friends, if not family as well. Also, suddenly adrift from all that structure which could feel freeing or it could be alien and scary. The Mormon missionaries will be ever-present, friendly, constantly offering to "help" you and always available for your every question. They will appear very knowledgeable and like well-adjusted and contented young people. The instant you get baptized they disappear. Then you are pulled into the congregation and given a "calling" (i.e. unpaid job) right away as well as being separated by gender for the classes after SM so that for at least half of the church day wives and husbands aren't experiencing church together. And there are so many expectations, including financial ones. With JWs, for instance, tithing is voluntary. With Mormons, not.

I think a person needs time to give their head a shake before diving into any other church after having left a controlling group like the two under discussion here. I know you get accustomed to the control and perhaps don't even consider it as being anything unusual or abnormal. In fact, so much so that going to a more mainstream church will seem completely alien because people are "allowed" to make their own decisions about ...everything. That can be disorienting it's such a change from what you're used to in these controlling groups. As just one small example, it's taken me many years to avoid wincing when someone uses the word 'cult' to refer to either one. It's such a loaded word and do I want to admit I voluntarily joined a cult? NO.

I, for one, have found it a challenge to adjust the programming, going from unquestioning obedience and self-judgement to sitting back, relaxing and taking in abundant information from many sources. I have come to see that rushing a prospect is a major way these groups gain converts, who get baptized so quickly their head is still spinning and they can be like sheep being led to slaughter. For a fact, at least in my experience, I can say that both groups specialize in withholding information from prospective members.

Now I have come to accept that it's OK, and possible, and normal to have questions, to find answers, to make up one's own mind, to choose for oneself, and to decide not to join or attend any church at all if that's how I feel.

And I've learned to be kind to myself, both in not castigating myself for my choices to join and in not feeling ashamed or stupid, mostly, and in taking plenty of me-time to pursue my own interests and enjoy myself in that and accept that it's OK, not "selfish".

My entire religious interlude started because as a young person I had the idea that I could find "the truth" about God. It didn't make sense to me that there would be so many religions, all with different beliefs - they couldn't all be right. Cue the JWs! They even call their faith "the truth" - perfect for a young clueless seeker. Now, fortunately, I've had the chance to develop a more informed and wider perspective. I have come to accept that there are many ways to express one's beliefs and they don't all have to be the same and one's religious path doesn't have to conform to a particular set of doctrines, especially from one relatively small group. They try to take away your individuality, as if it's a sin or a crime to be who you are. I think that's the part that got to me the most - I just couldn't accept that it should be that way. I also couldn't stand the isolation and the teaching that everybody else is wrong (as especially emphasized by JWs). That never seemed rational to me.

It sounds, stan, that you may have a long road ahead if your wife is that interested in Mormonism. It's difficult to put someone off something they're intent upon. I just hope that you can reason with her about the advisability of taking a breather. I get that it can feel to some that they have to hurry and decide where to go next (and the missionaries emphasize rushing) but it's a false sense of urgency, like they want to snag you before you have a minute to think.

I hope you can reason with her about taking a break and taking time to decompress from the JW experience. It can feel alien to be without the corporate structure of the WT Society or the routine of the Kingdom Hall. It can be enlightening and freeing to come to realize that you as an individual can still "worship" if you feel so inclined and you can do so on your own - you don't need the machinery of the overseers between you and whoever or whatever you still believe in. Too, though, it's helpful to take in as much information as possible - I know it's hard to trust after years of JW teachings about all the evils of the world but information and experience are vital to helping you to gain a larger perspective. To me, perspective is very instructive but it can take time to get past the years of structure and confinement. It's worth aiming for though.

I mightily hope that your wife doesn't leap into Mormonism, for both your sakes. I hope you can find a way to help her decide to just take it slow. Maybe a class on comparative religion (it's not a sin to check out other faiths!) and some time to decompress. Or a total church-break to see how that feels.

A significant percentage of exxies don't join other churches. Perfectly understandable. And they go on to enjoy their lives. I don't advocate for either believing in God still or not believing. I just say take your time and read a lot and learn. There is no rush! Expand your horizons. Live a little - it's not a sin! Let your mind and body breathe and relax.

Good luck in your exit process (it can take significant time to change how you think - some programming can run deep) and I really hope your wife will slow down and take time too.

I hope you feel welcome to keep posting here. We'd be interested in how things are going for you both. The folks here know a lot more than I do about Mormonism - many were brought up in it and know stuff I've never heard of. Posters here are interesting, funny, compassionate and helpful (mostly, lol). I hope we can be of some assistance.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2020 05:18PM by Nightingale.

I think stan will find this insightful. Thanks, Nighty.

I hope so, dagny. Thanks.

wow Nightingale, thank you so much for your honesty. My wife dove headfirst and actually got baptized as a Mormon while still a jw ! Imagine that. And I was in the middle, watching witness friends, and watching her start to make a whole new identity with the Mormons. Kind of a mind-blowing time for me.
I realize the substance of your comment " Posters here are interesting, funny, compassionate and helpful ". Thank you all for your insight, and honesty.

Stan: Oh, I didn't realize that ship had sailed. Wow. So there must be a disfellowshipping in her future, if the JWs get to hear of it. And now she's in at the deep end with the Mormons.

I know we're all different and generalizations are, by definition, not exact. But. I must say that due to how low-level they kept me as a new convert, I didn't learn very much and I didn't find it spiritually uplifting or theologically illuminating. As I said, I didn't get to go to the adult meetings (other than sacrament meeting which was deadly dull and nothing like having a knowledgeable leader give a talk on a scripture, for instance, that can be very illuminating as a religious person) due to being assigned to be a "teacher" in Primary (a new convert who knew nothing, "teaching" the kids). I'm thinking that compared to the JWs, where at least they delve into scripture and summon up some inspiring talks at times, and where they're friendly to all (as long as you toe the line), if your wife's experience is anything like mine she may find the reality post-baptism quite a letdown. I found it deadly dull and uninspiring and the people weren't friendly to me. I excused them, thinking maybe they were just all so busy with large families and lots of unpaid church jobs to do.

Your wife, though, may find that it feels comfortably familiar in that there are similarities in the two groups. Not in spiritual beliefs but in being apart from the world (JWs more so) and in the focus on a future life, not the current one.

I hope her choice doesn't cause distance between you two. I sympathize with your predicament in that there will definitely be pressure for you to get baptized now too. It's too bad you didn't both get a chance to decompress from your JW time. You're in a similar group in many ways (at least, your wife is) and at least for me it was far less enjoyable. I found it very hard to make friends. And when I left, just like the JWs, the Mormons were content enough to let it go (not that I'm complaining about that) but they do know how to make you feel like a complete waste of time.

I'd be interested to hear how things are going with you and your wife. Good luck to you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2020 09:40PM by Nightingale.

we both disassociated ourselves. I did it several months earlier, the hypocrisy from both sides, (Mormon and jw) was getting really toxic for me. She has become really involved, teaching Sunday school and all sorts of other activities. The pressure to get me to join is always there. I found the following speech from a Mormon leader, it is starting to work as a repellant for me:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/transcript-elder-kearon-religious-freedom-byu-2019

Ask the sharks if they believe in their own Articles of Faith, #11. Tell them you will worship according to your own conscience and they should allow you that privilege without trying to make you Mormon.

Article of Faith 11 says:

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

I'm curious. What do you find objectional in this talk?

Here's wucha do:

"C'mon in Bro n Sis Borington. I've been anxious to chart your horoscopes. She's a Virgo? Nah, hah, nah. There's a wild Sagittarius out there in YOUR stars."

They won't be back.

Coffee is the ideal Mormon repellent. Or if you don’t like coffee, get a Starbucks cup and put in your beverage of choice. If they see you with “Satan’s battery acid”, they will treat you like a vampire treats garlic.

Yes, Bradley, Stan could turn this into a lot of fun.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2020 02:01PM by kathleen.