https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/is-god-good?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3mLenGw7sbJknd6jJ6Fvs9buAS9Xz7vIhlUBw5eBffR1QQdqXedIb-1RQ#Echobox=1590034860

"Why does God allow evil to happen? This question has been at the heart of Western religious philosophy since the dawn of monotheism. The very term and concept of God has long divided humans. Is he the first mover? Beyond definition, as many have argued? If God is all-powerful and humans are incapable of even defining him—I'm using "him" out of convenience, as "it" would be more appropriate in this case; a gendered deity is quite definable—why are so many certain they recognize his moral standing? Given how many sects of religions exist, how can so many people be so wrong?....
.....There might never be answers to such questions given the contentious nature of this discussion. While Sterba goes to great philosophical lengths to contemplate the problem of evil, he also grounds his thinking in the practical and applicable. Regardless of your religious belief (or non-belief), it behooves everyone to remember that when it comes to moral evil, we are all empowered to play a beneficent, or evil, role. As he puts it,"

God is great

God is good

Thank you for this food.

Amen


That’s the only prayer I remember hearing at the dinner table growing up. All I ever said when called on.

I always enjoyed the food and I see the world as a good place. Maybe it worked.

“Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn’t exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary. Take your pick, and choose wisely."
Sam Harris

BINGO !

fritz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “Either God can do nothing to stop catastrophes
> like this, or he doesn't care to, or he doesn’t
> exist. God is either impotent, evil, or imaginary.
> Take your pick, and choose wisely."
> Sam Harris

Sam is just restating the Problem of Evil, without defining what he means by God or Evil, which is the fundamental problem with the problem with evil.
It assumes God is a "he" and requires that God to be concerned with human affairs. Why assume either?
Just because the State Religion does?

This question opens the door to a vast array of questions.
I tend to harp on my perceptions and experiences.
First we need to define who is God?
I can do this in only about 60 small type pages but I will not bore you right now.
In my opinion there is a good chance that God is good. However the oposite could also be true.
My thoughts are clogged right now. I'll add more later

Good is a man-made concept as is God.


Blame God or praise God if you wish, but God ain't the problem. The idea of God is. Been ripping the world apart for eons.

The other great thing about god is you get to define him. What a chameleon. Useful, that. Mulit-purpose. What a product.


"God" is a way to justify actions. When God has your back, cuz you say he has, then that is even better than quoting Einstein or NdGT or even Martha Stewart.

Nothing is as good as quoting Mark Twain though. Nothing.

The chameleon observation is very important. It is why no one can ever disprove the existence of God.

You can't disprove the existence of bigfoot either.
I can make up anything and you can't disprove it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2020 02:09PM by Dave the Atheist.

Indeed. It is impossible to disprove an indefinite proposition.

Given the limits of human intelligence, we work on probabilities.

Given the limits and life-affirmations of human natures, we are probabilities playing out unreliable yet realized realities. God is our non-existent certitude felt in these realities.

Yes, God is the life-affirming bias that persuades us there is meaning in what we experience.

Well if the true God turned out to be Dionysus, the Greek God of Wine, and all of the other Greek gods turned out to be false. Then maybe God could be good.

Ha. With you on that one!

"God On Trial" (2008)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=tD7v9phroGM

The Non-existent are neither good or bad. So zero chance.

What are the chances a non-existent coin will come up heads on the first flip? Same result.

TopperToppington
(That was not me running naked past the Temple. That was some other guy)

The assumptions in the premise are unwarranted and the reasoning to get there is circular.

All the nutritional content of a nothing burger, wrapped in tautology, printed with misunderstood aphorisms and marketed as the ultimate insight. Because the author does math-like things on computers, that makes him credible.

I think I love you.

TopperTopping

(love in the time of COVID-19)

> (love in the time of COVID-19)

I.e., no touching!

Love it.

And, a nothing burger with supposed endorsements from all the heavy hitting scientists who don't even know their name is being attached.

I keep saying this, but a loving God wouldn't give his creation a weird test on a dying planet. Chaos and evil wouldn't even be heard of. A loving God would also never tell anyone to kill each other then contradict himself with the thou shalt not kill commandment. Like I've also said, Jesus Christ, Jehovah, Yahweh are all Satan. All are referred to as the morning star. In the Bible in 2 Samuel 24.1 God tells David to number Israel then in 1 Chronicles 21.1 Satan tells David to number Israel. They can't get their story straight on who is God and who is Satan in the Bible, and in Mormonism, if Jesus and Satan are brothers, they may as well be twins both morning star. We might be dolls that God plays with. Really disturbing I know.

The most charitable proposition is that God does not exist. For if she does, the ubiquity of evil indicates that she is not benevolent.

What is good to an animal? (We are, after all, animals, "a little smarter than your average bear.") I think what is good to an animal is having a warm, safe shelter, adequate food, survival, and pleasure in day-to-day existence. What is bad to an animal? -- anything that threatens its health, safety, food supply or overall welfare.

I don't think that animals get all existential when bad luck happens to them. It's just bad luck. It's not personal. You were out gathering acorns, or munching on some greenery, and the fox spotted you, and now you are running for your life. Either you get to live, or the fox gets to eat his lunch. What is bad luck for one, is good luck for the other, and vice-versa.

Humans also are pro-social creatures, in that we depend on one another to improve our welfare, happiness and chances of survival. But there is mental illness. There are people who were born without pro-social temperaments. I remember when one of the great apes researchers wrote about how the apes she was observing (who had formerly been stand-offish) came to her for help when one of their number appeared to develop a malicious sociopathy. They knew that something was wrong, an aberration that threatened the group happiness and survival. They knew it was beyond their ability to deal with.

So if there is a God, is God good? I like to think so. I like to think that God presides over a peaceable forest in a non-material world where the lion lays down with the lamb, and bad luck is not a factor.

There are a number of problems with the referenced article,
#1. Failure to define the word, "God" and
#2. Failure to define the word, "good"

#1. I, like Saga, Hawking and Kaku, prefer Einstein's definition of the word, "god" as in, nature.So to know the mind of god is to understand the rules that govern nature.
#2. Good = life sustaining.

Since life exists, nature is good.
Yes death exists also, but death is also necessary in order to make room for new life.

The word "nature" is an abstraction. It is a manmade mental category. In actual experience it is therefore unfindable and is certainly not (a) God.

I like the view of the Bible that says God is logic. Is logic good?

Details: http://answersanswers.com/God/Bible1-God.html

Mormons do not own the concept pf God. Neither do mainstream Christians. I think the animists and pantheists and gnostics have the more rational view of God. I also like the Greek and Taoist view: gods as metaphors for the forces of nature or bureacracy, and just as likely to be bad.

I have trouble with claims that Taoism characterizes God in any particular way for the simple reason that the word "God" does not appear in the Taoist literature. It is an alien interpolation.

Logic is useful for problem solving.

God is useful for problem creating.

Good does not come into the equation for either one.

Annoying comes into the equation for one.

Nature just is. IS. Has no trappings.


Dao & Dao

Epicurus' trilemma

If God is unable to prevent evil, then he is not all-powerful.

If God is not willing to prevent evil, then he is not all-good.

If God is both willing and able to prevent evil, then why does evil exist?

invinoveritas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Epicurus' trilemma
>
> If God is unable to prevent evil, then he is not
> all-powerful.
>
> If God is not willing to prevent evil, then he is
> not all-good.
>
> If God is both willing and able to prevent evil,
> then why does evil exist?

#1. Why assume God is a "He"? Maybe what we call "god" is just, Nature.
#2. What is "evil" but a human construct? Perhaps "God" (Nature) is not concearned with human constructs.
#3. What is "good" but a human construct? Perhaps "God" (Nature) is not concearned with human constructs.
#4. Why does anything exist except chaos, if the universe tends towards chaos?
#5. The fact that life has existed and continuously evolved over the past 3 billion years, despite all the destructive forces in the universe, is all the evidence we need to conclude that "God" (Nature) is, after all, good (benevolent) or life sustaining.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2020 12:48PM by schrodingerscat.

The only accurate thing about "God" is that disasters are referred to as "acts of God".

The insurance industry knows what he really is.

And Judges

JoeSmith666 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only accurate thing about "God" is that
> disasters are referred to as "acts of God".
>
> The insurance industry knows what he really is.

He is a she, Mother Nature.

"Fight Club" by Chuck Palahniuk

________

I’ve met God across his long walnut desk with his diplomas hanging on the wall behind him, and God asks me, “Why?”
Why did I cause so much pain?
Didn’t I realize that each of us is a sacred, unique snowflake of special unique specialness?
Can’t I see how we’re all manifestations of love?
I look at God behind his desk, taking notes on a pad, but God’s got this all wrong.
We are not special.
We are not crap or trash, either.
We just are.
We just are, and what happens just happens.
And God says, “No, that’s not right.”
Yeah. Well. Whatever. You can’t teach God anything.

I.DO.NOT.FUCKING.CARE.

Common Roman epitaph

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

I was not
I was
I am not
I do not care

God, good address none of this. As consitutued, god nor good change those things.

Lethbridge Reprobate Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I.DO.NOT.FUCKING.CARE.
I.DO.NOT.FUCKING.CARE.THAT YOU DO NOT FUCKING CARE.

We’re on the horns of a dilemma!

Who between you doesn’t care the most?

How will I sleep tonight!!!

>I.DO.NOT.FUCKING.CARE.THAT YOU DO NOT FUCKING CARE

98% of the posters here DO NOT F#CKING CARE WHAT YOUR LATEST REDEFINITION OF GOD IS.

Yet you continue to post it 200 times.

Just Stop It Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >I.DO.NOT.FUCKING.CARE.THAT YOU DO NOT FUCKING
> CARE
>
> 98% of the posters here DO NOT F#CKING CARE WHAT
> YOUR LATEST REDEFINITION OF GOD IS.
>
> Yet you continue to post it 200 times.
99.9% of posters think your opinion doesn't fucking matter and the other 0.1% is you.

I answered the question posed, honestly. Just tickled it bothers you.

He hasn’t sent fire and brimstone on the church office building. That has to count for something.

It just demonstrates his inability to prioritize.

If this is a serious question, I believe that the gods are simply more evolved spiritual beings. They are not all-powerful, nor all-knowing. They help where they can, but because they are not all-powerful, they can't always help.

You've just described (and labeled) Bill Gates!!

What are the chances that grow two inches in two different places, my hair grows back, and my bank account automatically replenishes itself after it goes below my minimum balance?

According to some theologians, whatever God is or does is good -- because God is the creator of good, the arbiter of good. It doesn't matter if we mere humans take exception with something God does, we're wrong because God is always right. So for them there is no problem of evil, we simply judge evil incorrectly. It's actually good, because it's the way God does things.

These theologians are pro-monarch, pro-dictator, authoritarians. The ruler is always right because he/she is the ruler, and the ruler makes the rules. Our ideas about morality and justice are irrelevant.

> These theologians are pro-monarch, pro-dictator,
> authoritarians. The ruler is always right because
> he/she is the ruler, and the ruler makes the
> rules. Our ideas about morality and justice are
> irrelevant.

That is a an insightful statement. But it isn't just "theologians" who are sheep looking for a ruler who "is always right because he/she is the ruler." That human impulse to subsume one's own conscience in a dictatorial movement is what destroys democracies.

olderelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> According to some theologians, whatever God is or
> does is good -- because God is the creator of
> good, the arbiter of good. It doesn't matter if we
> mere humans take exception with something God
> does, we're wrong because God is always right. So
> for them there is no problem of evil, we simply
> judge evil incorrectly. It's actually good,
> because it's the way God does things.

Socrates would agree with you here.

> These theologians are pro-monarch, pro-dictator,
> authoritarians. The ruler is always right because
> he/she is the ruler, and the ruler makes the
> rules. Our ideas about morality and justice are
> irrelevant.

Not here though.

Perhaps a better way of saying this is that god's actions are intrinsically good because god isn't the arbiter of good but the original source of good. It isn't a matter of questioning god but instead a matter of perspective. Without knowing everything how could one judge a being who acts with all knowledge. Perhaps saving one child from dying of cancer will cause a supernova that will destroy an entire world of inhabitants.

It's of course silly to engage in what ifs about what god should or shouldn't do because for every example of god's horror a believer can make up a scenario where allowing something bad to happen prevents an even worse situation. Remember god telling Nephi to kill Laban? Joseph Smith wasn't the first person to justify a terrible thing by inferring that something even worse might happen.

Trying to guess at the motives of a being that is defined as immortal, all powerful, all knowing, and all present is a zero sum game.

I prefer the question: What does it matter to me if there is or isn't a god?

Your presented argument still reduces to divine command theory and doesn't resolve the problem.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2020 07:21PM by dogblogger.

My point is that the problem cannot be resolved. If one defines god as good than evil must be dismissed and cannot be a problem for god. Divine Command is as stupid as it is brilliant.

My question is actually, why does it matter to me? How does god's existence or non existence impact me? Why should I care?

jacob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My point is that the problem cannot be resolved.
> If one defines god as good than evil must be
> dismissed and cannot be a problem for god.

Good and Evil do not exist in nature. They only exist in the minds and actions of humans. They are of no consequence to the natural processes. But if we see life as good, then nature is good, since it created and sustains life, despite all of the destructive (evil) forces in the world.

> Divine Command is as stupid as it is brilliant.
>
> My question is actually, why does it matter to me?

Why does anything matter?
Because m=E/c^2

> How does god's existence or non existence impact
> me? Why should I care?

Why should I care about anything?

And here we see the circular logic.

nature=good=god=math of science laws describing nature=higgs boson=tao=logos=life

You can mix and match the order of the word salad and not change the meaning. There is no reasoning to move between any given item and the next, only tautological redfenitions.

And when you string it all together, you can hear Elton John sing "The Circle of <insert word here>".

Once again, you demonstrate that logic is brutal.

God's (or the concept of God) only function is control people. It is really good and bad at that.

It depends on which God you're talking about: the judging, punishing hard-ass God or the all-loving father God.

Yes, God can be used to control, primarily with fear of eternal punishment. But there are a LOT of people who are into God not out of fear but because they believe he loves and cares for them like a perfect parent, everything will be okay, and we'll live happily ever after. Of course, that can be manipulated to control people, too.

What are the chances that there actually is a god?

The chances are slim. You'll have to settle for EOD, which is probably a pretty good second choice!

saucie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What are the chances that there actually is a god?

"The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying… it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity." Carl Sagan

It might not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity, but it might not make sense to pray to anything.