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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 08:15PM

Robert P. Jones, CEO and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI)

"Our models reveal that the more racist attitudes a person holds, the more likely he or she is to identify as a white Christian and vice versa."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/white-christian-america-needs-moral-awakening/614641/


"In my day job, I am the CEO and founder of Public Religion Research Institute (PRRI), a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that conducts research on issues at the intersection of religion, culture, and politics. I’m a social scientist by training and have always been fascinated by the ways in which beliefs, institutional belonging, and culture impact opinions and behaviors in public space. I strive to conduct research and write as an impartial observer. In our work at PRRI, we’ve found that white Christian groups—including evangelicals, mainline Protestants, and Catholics—consistently hold views that are at odds with African American Protestants’ views. The attitudes of nonreligious white Americans, conversely, tend to be more aligned with African Americans’. For white Americans, the data suggest that Christian identity limits their ability to see structural injustice, and even influences them to see themselves, rather than African Americans, as a persecuted group.


For example, attitudes about what the Confederacy symbolizes today are one of the most noticeable differentiators among these groups. Last year, in a national survey of more than 2,500 Americans, PRRI found that 86 percent of white evangelical Protestants, along with 70 percent of white mainline Protestants and 70 percent of white Catholics, believe that the Confederate flag is more a symbol of southern pride than of racism. By contrast, only 41 percent of white religiously unaffiliated Americans and 16 percent of African American Protestants agree; approximately six in 10 religiously unaffiliated white people and three-quarters of African American Protestants see the Confederate flag mostly as a racist symbol.


Similarly, nearly two-thirds (64 percent) of white Christians see the killings of African American men by police as isolated incidents rather than part of a broader pattern. There is some daylight here among white evangelicals (71 percent), white Catholics (63 percent), and white mainline Protestants (59 percent), but the differences are more a matter of degree than kind. And there is a 26-percentage-point gap between white Christians overall and religiously unaffiliated whites (38 percent agree they are isolated incidents) and a nearly 50-percentage-point gap between white Christians and African American Protestants (15 percent agree).


These patterns—of nonreligious white people holding attitudes closer to African American Protestants’ than white Christians’ of all stripes—persist in question after question on issues of racial justice. In order to see this more clearly, I developed a Racism Index comprising 15 separate questions that cover four broad areas: attitudes about Confederate symbols; racial inequality and African American economic mobility; racial inequality and the treatment of African Americans in the criminal-justice system; and general perceptions of race and racism.


Analysis of the composite Racism Index confirms the general pattern: White Christians are more likely than white religiously unaffiliated Americans to register higher scores. The median scores reveal similar attitudes among white Christian groups. Not surprisingly, given their history and strong presence in the former states of the Confederacy, white evangelical Protestants have the highest median score (0.78) on the Racism Index. But the median scores of white Catholics (0.72) and white mainline Protestants (0.69) are not far behind. These numbers stand out compared with the median scores of the general population (0.57), white religiously unaffiliated Americans (0.42), and Black Protestants (0.24).


Even when employing more sophisticated statistical models that control for a range of demographic characteristics, holding more racist attitudes is independently predictive of identifying as a white Christian and vice versa. The results of these models lead us to some remarkable and damning conclusions:


White Christians think of themselves as people who hold warm feelings toward African Americans, while simultaneously embracing a host of racist attitudes that are inconsistent with that assertion.
Holding more racist views is a positive independent predictor of white Christian identity overall and for each of the three white Christian subgroups individually. By contrast, holding more racist views has only a very weak effect on white religiously unaffiliated identity, and that effect is in the negative direction.


Attending church more frequently does not make white congregants less racist. On the contrary, there is a positive relationship between holding racist attitudes and white Christian identity among both frequent (weekly or more) and infrequent (seldom or never) church attenders.
When we reverse the analysis to predict racist attitudes, being affiliated with each white Christian identity is independently associated with an approximately 10 percent increase in racist attitudes. By contrast, there is no significant relationship between white religiously unaffiliated identity and holding racist attitudes.


Putting this in plain language, our models reveal that the more racist attitudes a person holds, the more likely he or she is to identify as a white Christian and vice versa.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2020 08:18PM by anybody.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 08:28PM

Mormons know that only the best 'spirits' get White bodies, so while Mormonism isn't mentioned in the study, per see, many of us here know White Mormons believe that White is right.

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 08:34PM


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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 08:35PM

Just get righteous, EOD, and you'll fit right in.

Or do we not teach that anymore?

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 08:48PM

Isn't it weird that ghawd's gift of Whiter skin for righteous Lamanites is overmatched by sunlight?

Maybe the prophet should pass along ghawd's word that righteous Lamanites ought to use an SPF product of 200 or higher so things would work out better?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 08:53PM

Or else join the 12 Tribes (tribes!) in that massive cave under the North Pole.

Save you a few bucks on sun screen.

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Posted by: blindguy ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 09:03PM

I was struck by the following two sentences:

"Attending church more frequently does not make white congregants less racist. On the contrary, there is a positive relationship between holding racist attitudes and white Christian identity among both frequent (weekly or more) and infrequent (seldom or never) church attenders."

What they suggest (and I've known this for a while) is that the preachers and ministers in these sects are silently encouraging, if not outright supporting, the racism emanating from these people.

Well, could the ministers be replaced with different ones who have more positive racial messages, one might ask. My best guess (in most cases) is not. I still remember the NPR story a couple of years back about the great-grandson of Robert E. Lee, a Protestant minister, who was removed by his flock after he started giving antiracist sermons after the 2017 events in Charlottesville, Virginia. And if the flock can't remove a minister (something that is true for Catholic priests), they may not attend services at all if the messages are antiracist ones.

Yes. We really have a problem and I wish I knew how to fix it.

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Posted by: blindguy ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 02:39PM

For those who may doubt my last comment, I submit the story at the following link.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/7/30/1965159/-Alabama-state-rep-resigns-as-pastor-after-attending-birthday-party-for-first-KKK-grand-wizard?detail=emaildkre

While the story doesn't say what this state representative (and now ex-minister) was saying at his Sunday sermons, I think it is safe to say that he wasn't praising the virtues of Martin Luther King or anyboty else trying to end racism in the U.S.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 03:31PM

blindguy said:

"Well, could the ministers be replaced with different ones who have more positive racial messages, one might ask. My best guess (in most cases) is not."

I agree with you that the likely answer in most cases is no.

The negative conclusions about white Christians and the propensities of a significant number of them are disturbing to me. I still identify as a Christian, although in Canada where our issues are not identical, not to say we don't have them around racism ourselves, most unfortunately. But I don't necessarily hear that it's a function of specific religious beliefs here.

There is also a significant degree of obliviousness about it here. I heard a good definition of being an "ally" in our day - it's not enough to BE anti-racist, you should be proactively trying to change its realities. I can get behind that.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 10:58PM

My question is why this Robert Jones is so interested in what people think. He should be interested in what they do. Because it's completely abnormal to obsese over what others think. The only thing that matters in this life is how people treat each other, their actions. Action oriented Systematic Racism ended in 1966 and this new world order pretend racism began in the 80s. It is a threat to free thought and diverse opinions and dialog. We can't come to the truth if we are too afraid of debating the issue, of confronting certain thoughts, We need to avoid demonizing people because of their opinions. This Robert Jones is an enemy to freedom.

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Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 12:02AM

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My question is why this Robert Jones is so
> interested in what people think. He should be
> interested in what they do. Because it's
> completely abnormal to obsese over what others
> think.

So, by your definition, sociology and any study of human behavior is abnormal. The anti-intellectualism is strong in you.

Racist preaching leads to racist actions. You should know, macaRomney; you've been an active part of the problem for a while now.

> The only thing that matters in this life
> is how people treat each other, their actions.

I believe that. It's why I hate you and other assholes with delusions of superiority.

> Action oriented Systematic Racism ended in 1966
> and this new world order pretend racism began in
> the 80s.

Is there a source for this? Because it looks like a bullshit claim that wouldn't be out of place on a white supremacist's website. Post a peer reviewed source or it will be assumed it came out of your ass.

>It is a threat to free thought and
> diverse opinions and dialog. We can't come to the
> truth if we are too afraid of debating the issue,
> of confronting certain thoughts, We need to avoid
> demonizing people because of their opinions.

So demonizing cousin-fuckers who think having pale skin make them superior is wrong, but letting them spout it off, act on it, and let them get away with it is peachy?

And don't ever clutch pearls at demonizing people, macaRomney; you've been spreading racist garbage about how justified the genocidal treatment of Native Americans is because of "Manifest Destiny."

>This Robert Jones is an enemy to freedom.

Don't. Ever. Call someone an enemy to "freedom." In front of me again. I took an oath to protect the United States years ago when I enlisted in the Navy. The "freedom" of being a bastard to others just because of skin and gender without suffering consequences is NOT what I swore to uphold!

If you had even a shred of decency, you'd be washing your mouth with soap a dozen times for saying shit like this.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 01:09AM

You have my deep admiration, ookami, on many levels.

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Posted by: severedpuppetstrings ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 02:51AM

ookami you have my utmost respect as well.
Not to bring race up, but as an African-American and a Latina, and as someone who had to hear a lot of racist things while in TSCC, and also from Christians during the time of George Floyd's death (where when I would explain racism to my former Christian and Mormon friends, my words would get dismissed), I thank you. As well as for your service.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2020 03:00AM by severedpuppetstrings.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 02:55AM

I concur with LW.

And macaromney, you can't offer Robert Jones a hot steaming cup of STFU, and then, in the same paragraph, say "we need to avoid demonizing people because of their opinions". Well, actually you can and did say that, but it makes you sound like an idiot.

As for institutional racism having ended in 1966, George Floyd was murdered in broad daylight and full public view and on camera, murdered by employees of a government institution, just a couple of months ago. Voting rights continue to be threatened by government institutions.

Our institutions still have work to do.

As my Catholic friends used to say at times like this, "Jesus, Mary and Joseph."

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 12:17PM

My hat is off to you and my deepest bow, ookami.

I could not agree more with your eloquence. You chose all the right words.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 08:18PM

Haven't I always said that he reminds me of us?

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 09:37AM

I know . . . Right?

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Posted by: Heidi GWOTR ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 11:20AM

Thank you ookami for your "right on the nose" words. And, thank you for your service, and in case no-one told you before, welcome home. I'm a Vietnam vet's wife.

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 12:51AM

Said perfectly, Ookami.

And, yes, thank you for your service.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 09:19AM

Well, if you want to look at people's actions -- Maca, if you want to go out jogging, or to the convenience store late at night, or drive out somewhere, or one of a hundred other ordinary actions, you would hope that law enforcement and other people wouldn't treat you differently from others simply due to the color of your skin. That would be your hope and your expectation. But that is a hope and expectation that has repeatedly been dashed in this country for people of color.

Have you ever been genuinely afraid for your child, that your child might be misjudged and harmed simply due to the color of their skin? This is not paranoia on the part of black parents. This is their lived reality, that their child might be harmed while jogging on a street, or on a late-night trip to a convenience store, or at a traffic stop.

So your argument to look at people's actions only is wanting, because people's actions toward people of color have been found wanting. Changing the civil rights laws didn't change that anymore than freeing the slaves changed that. Yes, there has been gradual improvement over time, but much remains to be done.

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Posted by: good grief ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 12:38PM

"We need to avoid demonizing people because of their opinions. This Robert Jones is an enemy to freedom."

Said without a trace of irony or self-awareness. <facepalm>

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 02:36PM

Again and again. He is brilliant self-parody but doesn't even realize it.

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Posted by: blindguy ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 02:49PM

The reason that I am concerned with racist thoughts and words is that people will act on those thoughts and words. Actions don't come out of the blue; rather they are the result of what the person taking them has learned (or thinks he/xhe has learned) about the person/group he/she is taking action against.

Does this mean that I am against free speech? No. But it does mean that when people speak racist thoughts without a concern for whom those thoughts might harm, then those of us against racism should call them out on those words--not because the mind of the speaker won't be changed but because it may put some doubts in to the minds of some of the followers who are thinking of pursuing actions against the person/group whom the speaker is ranting.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: July 31, 2020 03:43PM

MacaRomney says: "...world order pretend racism..."

Ask any of the following people about how "pretend" it is:

Eric Garner
Michael Brown
Tamir Rice
Walter Scott
Alton Sterling
Philando Castile
Stephon Clark
Breonna Taylor
George Floyd

Oh wait. You can't ask them - they are no longer alive. These are just a few of the Black people killed by US police. Most unfortunately, in Canada too Indigenous and Black Canadians have an increased likelihood of being killed by police compared to White Canadians.

It may be the "world order", Maca, but it's not pretend. Just ask the multitudes of grieving family members, friends and associates of any of the victims of violence caused or made worse due to the genetic lottery of the colour of one's skin.

Mine is pale white. It doesn't even tan. Factors absolutely outside my control. Why should that genetic feature furnish me with a get-out-of-jail-free card throughout life? The fact that it does is unjust. And very, very real.

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Posted by: Whatzup ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 04:39PM

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mine is pale white. It doesn't even tan. Factors
> absolutely outside my control. Why should that
> genetic feature furnish me with a
> get-out-of-jail-free card throughout life? The
> fact that it does is unjust. And very, very real.

What you're referring to is class not color. If you were white and from a bad/poor area, you wouldn't think you had a get out of jail free card. Incarceration rates for low income whites are high too. US jails have lots of white people in them. Not many of them went to private schools or comfortable backgrounds.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 05:04PM

Is there a reason you are uncomfortable with the tight correlation between color and police/judicial experience?

Can you document your alternative implicit claim that poor white people are arrested, beaten, and killed by police at the same rates as blacks and Latinos; that they are sentenced to the same punishments for the same crimes? Because if you can't, you are conjuring up ghosts from the D.C. swamps.

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Posted by: frankie ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 11:15PM

change of subject, anybody tired of Mormons claiming that the result of having Mormonism on the planet is all of the technological advances

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 30, 2020 11:55PM

After reading Maca's screed, your post gave me whiplash!




you'll be hearing from my attorney.

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Posted by: JoeSmith666 ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 12:13PM

So, was Bing Crosby a Super Racist for singing WHITE CHRISTMAS?

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 01:04PM

Good thing you aren't performing at a comedy club.

Patrons would need more than the two drink minimum to find that funny.

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Posted by: severedpuppetstrings ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 03:08AM

Dude, are you for real? Oy vey!
*facepalm*

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Posted by: Johnny Seed ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 04:25PM

Misleading title. It says white Christians are more likely to be racist, when it is in fact referring specifically to white supremacy, or exclusively relating racism to that concept. This is almost as good as the bit in the Book of Mormon where it prophesies the coming of Joseph Smith.

No discussion of Asian attitudes, Native American, Hispanic etc. Or of any other forms of racism.

"Putting this in plain language, our models reveal that the more racist attitudes a person holds, the more likely he or she is to identify as a white Christian and vice versa."

The groundbreaking conclusion of this study is that whites support white supremacy. Hardly news, is it? Since most white Americans have a Christian background, it delivers a second massive surprise that these white racists are mostly Christian. (I'm sure there are some Odinists, Druids etc too but they're so few in number it doesn't matter).

The study also delivers such incredible revelations as that African American Protestants don't really support white supremacy.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 05:18PM

Johnny, you've showed up today under about six names. Choose one and stick with it.


-------------------------------------------------------
> Misleading title. It says white Christians are
> more likely to be racist, when it is in fact
> referring specifically to white supremacy, or
> exclusively relating racism to that concept.

Gibberish. You assert that white supremacy is not the same thing as racism. That is simply stupid.


--------------------
> This
> is almost as good as the bit in the Book of Mormon
> where it prophesies the coming of Joseph Smith.

Complete non-sequitur.


----------------------
> No discussion of Asian attitudes, Native American,
> Hispanic etc. Or of any other forms of racism.

Ah yes, the "everybody does it" defense. The topic of the study was racism/white supremacy in Christianity. That requires no study of other forms of racism.


---------------
> The groundbreaking conclusion of this study is
> that whites support white supremacy. Hardly news,
> is it?

And yet you just argued that the study is flawed. Which is it: wrong? Or obvious? It can't be both.


------------------------
> Since most white Americans have a Christian
> background, it delivers a second massive surprise
> that these white racists are mostly Christian.

Throwing dirt in the air. The study was about racism as a function of religious conviction. The greater the fervency, the greater the racism. You ignore the gradient the study finds and say that every white racist Christian is a white racist Christian, which doesn't tell us anything about the virulence of the prejudice. It's a sloppy and transparent way intentionally to miss the point.


---------------------
> (I'm sure there are some Odinists, Druids etc too
> but they're so few in number it doesn't matter).

Another non-sequitur, like the Mormon digression above. We see what you are doing, stinking the place up with your red herrings.


-----------------
> The study also delivers such incredible
> revelations as that African American Protestants
> don't really support white supremacy.

Intentionally obtuse. The point is that non-religious people and minorities tend to have the same views. Among the religious, the degree of deviation from those norms, the degree of unique racism, increases with religious commitment.


-------------------
You either missed the point of the article or are trying furiously to persuade others that you did. Neither is a good look.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 05:18PM

Are White Racists more likely or most likely to be Cchristians?

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