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Posted by: shut-in ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 03:08PM

Masks may actually increase your coronavirus risk if worn improperly, surgeon general warns

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/surgeon-general-coronavirus-masks-risk-trnd/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/29/health/face-masks-coronavirus-surgeon-general-trnd/index.html

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/07/fauci-says-everyone-wear-goggles-better-protection-covid-19/

But back in March, when every doctor out there was saying masks don’t really protect anyone from coronaviruses, Fauci sang a different tune.

Fauci told “60 Minutes” then that face masks might make people “feel a little bit better,” but they simply don’t protect people and, instead, bring “unintended consequences.”

“When it comes to preventing coronavirus, public health officials have been clear: Healthy people do not need to wear a face mask to protect themselves from COVID-19,” CBS News reported March 8.

“There’s no reason to be walking around with a mask when you’re in the middle of an outbreak,” Fauci said. “Wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it’s not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And often, there are unintended consequences; people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.”

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 03:14PM

Opinions and advice change as more information is gleaned. Then best advice is updated. Informed people - those who keep up with current recommendations - are best protected from a killer virus.

It isn't rocket science but nevertheless seems beyond the ken of some people, unfortunately.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2020 03:15PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 03:18PM

You do realize that was from March? Masks were in very short supply back then. I felt very lucky to get my first paper mask from a family member. A part of me wonders if Fauci was trying to reserve the very scarce masks for the frontline workers back then.

Scientists, medical researchers, and epidemiologists have all found out a lot of information since then. New information comes out daily. I keep especially close track of new information about children and Covid-19. Now they are finding that very young children can carry a high viral load, in some cases 100 times the viral load found in adults. They are finding that children can transmit the virus with stunning speed. All of this was unknown in March.

If you are trying to discredit Dr. Fauci, you won't get very far with me. He has been one of the best allies our country has had during the pandemic. As he said in Congressional testimony, he doesn't have a horse in the (political) race. He follows the data. I don't know why this is so difficult for some people to understand.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2020 05:36PM by summer.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 03:24PM

Absolutely he was trying to reserve the supply for front-liners. They needed all they could get and tragically for some even that didn't preserve their lives.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 03:26PM

Yes, and sadly many had to do without. The situation seems better now.

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Posted by: shut-in ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 03:25PM

ok, now i get it. kind of like the church changes, huh? don't they say, that was then, this is now? silly me.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 03:29PM

Science does advance, sometimes daily. Just in the past week, articles were published in medical journals stating that in challenge trials, non-human primates who were given investigational Covid vaccines were able to fight of the live virus. This is new, and valuable knowledge.

According to you, the science never changes.

Are you planning on eventually getting a Covid vaccine? Or are you going to take your chances? Because a lot of new and evolving science is going into the vaccine studies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2020 03:30PM by summer.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 04:02PM

Not really like how the church changes or any church. If they speak of eternal truths and then change them that belies truth claims. With science and medicine, concepts by definition can and do change. Except if they are irrefutable.

Nobody said in Jan/Feb that our knowledge of COVID was absolute. In fact, the opposite.

In the immortal words of Galileo "And yet it moves".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2020 04:04PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: Heidi GWOTR ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 10:34AM

OMG!!! So, the sun revolves aroung the earth. The earth is a flat disk. The earth is 6000 years old.

After all, that's what science said 1000 years ago. New understanding doesn't count for anything.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 02:42PM

Without new understanding there wouldn't be antibiotics, cures for some cancers or medications and vaccines for other killer diseases. Doctors wouldn't have progressed to now using steroids and other meds for COVID patients, with some positive effect. Our understanding does move forward. If mistakes are made or new light is shed then approaches are updated.

Galileo wasn't my central focus above.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2020 02:43PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: Heidi GWOTR ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 02:51PM

I was being sarcastic. Sorry, it didn't come across.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 03:23PM

Oh my. So sorry. That's 3x this week I've missed the /s. I need to read twice or something. I get you now. It's all good.

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Posted by: shut-in ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 03:40PM

not trying to discredit anyone. but this is the same guy that did the aids scare back in the 80's. i don't have a problem with info changing, i have a problem with them not being able to say
"WE DON'T KNOW" instead of making people live in fear. kids are especially afraid. we are a nation living in fear.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 05:21PM

What AIDS scare? I was working in a largely gay industry in NYC back in the 80s, and I saw colleagues dropping like flies -- probably about one per month. People had a right to be scared. Back then, there were no effective treatments. If you got HIV/AIDS, you were likely to die of it. And it was not a pretty death. If you don't know about Karposi's Sarcoma, to which AIDS patients were highly vulnerable, google some images.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2020 05:30PM by summer.

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Posted by: shut-in ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 07:26PM

NYC sounds like it could be a dangerous place

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 07:39PM

You'd have been fine in 1980s NYC as long as you refrained from using condoms. For just as masks cause COVID-19, so too did prophylatics cause AIDS.

The vast majority of "experts" might disagree with that, but you and I both know that they are part of the grand leftist "conspiracy," right?

Oh, and don't use toothbrushes. They cause tooth decay and also brain cancer.

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Posted by: shut-in ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 07:58PM

On an individual level, there was a study in 2015 looking at medical students and medical students wearing surgical masks touch their face on average 23 times … We know a major way that you can get respiratory diseases like coronavirus is by touching a surface and then touching your face, so wearing a mask improperly can actually increase your risk of getting disease.

and btw, today i went to the cemetery where my son lies and throughout there were signs reminding you to social distance. NEVER ONCE IN MY LIFE HAVE I RUN INTO ANYONE I KNOW AT THE CEMETERY. I KNOW, IT'S FOR FUNERALS. WHATEVER.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 08:39PM

shut-in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On an individual level, there was a study in 2015
> looking at medical students and medical students
> wearing surgical masks touch their face on average
> 23 times … We know a major way that you can get
> respiratory diseases like coronavirus is by
> touching a surface and then touching your face, so
> wearing a mask improperly can actually increase
> your risk of getting disease.

Actually, the science is that COVID is quite difficult to catch from surfaces. By far the greatest risk is respirated moisture particles. So you are imbibing too much peyote if you think the utility of masks is even a close call.

Louie Gohmert is dangerous for your health. If you find yourself on his side of an argument, it's time to see what the actual science says.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 07:52PM

HIV/AIDS was dangerous. You are acting like you know what you are talking about, when in reality you have no idea. I was there. I saw it. I saw a lot of people I knew and respected succumb to it.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 05:22PM

Fauci was right about AIDS back in the 1980s. He was right about Ebola. He is among the most correct about COVID-19.

You are claiming he was wrong about AIDS, which is complete nonsense, to discredit his excellent performance now. Why would you do that? Make up failures to exposed made-up failures?

Sounds kind of. . . made up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2020 07:04PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: ufotofu ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 06:09PM

shut-in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not trying to discredit anyone. ... instead of making people live in fear. [Whose?] kids are especially afraid. [W]e are [NOT] (yet) a nation living in fear.

It's more like the unknown; such is life itself.

What one does to live in the moment (not in fear), navigate true or fake news (depends on where you get it), and live in a heightened state of awareness, kindness/ authenticity, or grounded reality is up to them.

We don't have to be afraid. We have choices... But I understand.

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Posted by: Lowpriest ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 04:24PM

I never thought masks would protect perfectly. However they can reduce risk at least a little. When combined with good higyne and physical distance any given person must be less likely to catch the covid than they would be otherwise.

I get a little irked at the "false sense of confidence" observation. I mean, give most people credit for common sense. People who ride a motorcycle don't all start jumping shark tanks because they have a helmet. I wear a seatbelt when I drive but I also observe good driving habits as much as I know how.

It's just risk mitigation.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 05:28PM

Oh, don't get me started about motorcyclists. These are the people that plead to be treated with the same level of respect as car drivers -- which I most certainly do. They get the same following distance that I would give a car if not more so. I know that they are vulnerable, and I treat them with care.

And yet, too many of these daredevils go barreling down the highway at 90 mph, weaving in and out of traffic. They ride on the shoulder or weave in and out of lanes when traffic is stopped. I wish that the offenders among them would treat others the way that they themselves wish to be treated.

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Posted by: Lowpriest ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 05:42PM

Hey summer, it sounds like I picked a bad example. I have that happen a lot when I try to make a point with an analogy. Sometimes the analogy is more controversial than the point that I trying to settle. Thanks!

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 07:13PM

No worries, you just hit a sore spot. Whenever I see a fool motorcyclist going 90 mph down the highway, all I can think is that he's not long for this world.

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Posted by: logged off today ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 06:20PM

You and your kind are so f***ing tiresome. You might as well be Russian trolls.

The Gateway Pundit? "A far-right political website that publishes false and misleading content. The Gateway Pundit regularly distorts information and occasionally spreads conspiracy theories."

https://www.newsguardtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/The-Gateway-Pundit-NewsGuard-Nutrition-Label.pdf

In this specific case, TGP intentionally misrepresents what Fauci said. His statement "If you really want perfect protection of your mucosal surfaces" was NOT in response to if a goggles edict "might soon be handed down" and he did NOT say "It might."

-----

"'I was talking to a group of teachers in a fireside chat and one of the teachers asked, "Can the virus enter through the eye?"' Fauci said. 'Because some of the teachers were seeing people on television and wanted to wear eye shields.'

"He continued, 'And my response was, "Well certainly, if you have an eye shield and you'd like to wear it, it could help because the virus could enter through the eye." That's not a recommendation that everybody should be wearing an eye shield.'"

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/31/health/covid-19-through-eyes-wellness-trnd/index.html

-----

And stop giving us your tired line about what the official advice was five months ago. It changed because we LEARNED MORE. Of course, you gloss over that part because it goes against your convictions that masks are anti-freeeeeeeeeeedom.

But as far as I'm concerned, if you want to be a smart guy like Herman Cain, go for it. The fewer around who think like you, the better off the rest of us are.

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Posted by: not fooled anymore ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 08:39PM

people full of hate get sick easier. please calm down and try to get a grip on that hatred

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 09:14PM

People object that the sources cited by the anti-gogglites are all outdated by several months and your response is to produce another study that is several months out of date?

The truth is out there if you dare search. All you need to do is switch out one "g" for an "o" and you are two/thirds of the way to the facts.

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Posted by: not fooled anymore ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 09:32PM

stick with the cdc site for the latest....they also change so what is one to believe

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 09:59PM

If you are citing things from three months ago, you aren't keeping up to date.

Yes, the CDC is useful. So too the NIH, Fauci, also the Oxford group and Michael Osterholm.

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 10:18PM

It's not like we've learned anything about this virus in the last 5 months since not fooled anymore's link was published.
/s

Realistically, one should doubt any source that is unwilling to change their mind when new information becomes available. After all, that is what the scientific method is about.

We have a new virus. As we go along, we learn more about it. Then we change our recommendations in view of the new information. Unfortunately, there are those who choose only to believe what they want to believe - the facts be damned. This attitude is why the US is doing such a terrible job of managing Covid.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 10:29PM

Sometimes I eschew my usual cynical inclinations and give people the benefit of the doubt. That's usually a mistake, but in rare cases. . .

Anyway, I'm not sure NFA is as impenetrable as the usual troglodytic suspects. The triumph of hope over experience.

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Posted by: Cindysue ( )
Date: August 01, 2020 10:52PM

Have they changed about the accuracy of the tests?

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 12:00AM

“When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?”

variations on this template attributed to John Maynard Keynes, Paul Samuelson, and a host of others.

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Posted by: Cindysue ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 08:11AM

The ever changing facts..whatever

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 09:11AM

The victim is a liver-transplant patient and a cancer survivor. She suffered a broken knee in the attack.

https://www.nj.com/bergen/2020/08/nj-woman-assaulted-at-staples-over-mask-request-i-lifted-my-cane-to-keep-her-away.html

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 11:10AM

This is the kind of thing that a store worker should always kick upstairs to the manager or security. And even they might want to refer it to the local PD. I worked for a retail store for five years when I was in school and in the beginning stages of my career. I never, ever took abuse from customers or put myself in a potentially abusive situation. I wasn't paid enough to deal with that.

I'm sorry that this woman was assaulted. The anti-mask brigade is insane.

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 12:14PM

The victim was not assaulted for not wearing a mask.
The victim was wearing a mask and was thrown down by a woman who was not wearing a mask.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 12:53PM

The victim was the store employee who talked to a woman who was not wearing a mask inside the store.

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 12:58PM

"Kagan, a single mother of two teenagers from Teaneck, has been at Hackensack University Medical Center since Wednesday, when she was shoved to the ground while faxing paperwork from Staples in Hackensack.
“I said, ‘you’re endangering everyone by not wearing your mask’ and I put my head down and went back to faxing at the machine,” she said."

"Moments after the attack, the video shows the woman walking out of the store, leaving Kagan on the floor and customers and employees standing nearby, stunned.
Kagan, who wore a mask and face shield into the store, said she spoke up to the woman because she is had a liver transplant in March – after being on a waiting list for two years – and that she fears contracting COVID-19"

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 02:06PM

So two customers? I stand corrected. I just watched the video, it's horrible. The woman who was attacked looks so frail. The weird thing is the attacker has a mask on, it's just the usual "below the nose" garbage. She looks identifiable, though. Someone should be able to name her.

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Posted by: ufotofu ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 05:59PM

Are you wearing your mask? Does it matter? Who cares?

You didn't need it or didn't wear one in January...

You probably don't need to now.

It's probably not smart to listen to others.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 06:27PM

ufotofu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's probably not smart to listen to others.

Unless it is...

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Posted by: ufotofu ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 06:43PM

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ufotofu Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's probably not smart to listen to others.
>
> Unless it is...

Well, naturally, Nightingale, I don't mean us. lol

I mean "others".
You know

I also had my tongue in cheek there. Cheeky huh :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2020 06:44PM by ufotofu.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: August 02, 2020 07:18PM

Yes. :)

Sorry - again - I'm totally missing all the clever quips of folks around here lately. I am one of those who obviously must need the /s alert. Please. Help me. Save my blood pressure. :p



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2020 07:18PM by Nightingale.

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