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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: September 13, 2020 06:15PM

Our skies are bad. Smoke blots out the sun. I wonder if the Mormons are getting exited about the west coast burning, and thinking it's a "sign of end times?"

The truth is that these conditions have been building for some time. Our climate has slowly gotten hotter and drier, and the wildfires are worse with each season. The fire season itself is two weeks longer than it used to be. I wonder how long this one will last.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: September 13, 2020 06:22PM

This could very well be true, that our climate has gotten hotter and drier. But there maybe other factors that impact the fire season much more such as people building new construction out in brushy areas, the foothills. People not mowing down the tall grass by their buildings. Too many people impacting nature down in Los Angeles. I have to wonder if S. Cali was meant to hold so many sprawling suburbs.

I was listening to talk radio today, and the host (Mark Levine) said this could all be solved if the low brush was better managed in the forests. I'm not so sure the feasibility of that though since the national forests are so vast?

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Posted by: notmonotloggein ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 12:59PM

obsessing over plastic drinking straws.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 01:57PM

Maybe the powers that be could restore funding for management of said forests.

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Posted by: tumwater ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 04:03PM

Maybe the funding of the Great American Outdoors Act will help with some of these problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Outdoors_Act

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 02:03PM

Maybe you should check your facts. Then you would know that the forests are managed by the Forest Service from Washington.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 02:12PM

Exactly.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 12:59AM

57% of Taxifornia is Federal land. 3% is state foret. But after thanking Trump for his fast response, Gov. Newsom did say, “We have not done justice to our forest management. We acknowledge our role and response."

Not sure who the "we" is. My take is the aggregate "wilding" philosophy that there should be minimal interference with the growth and death cycles of forests: no fire cuts, clearing of deadwood and underbrush, etc.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 01:19AM

Is that a denial of global warming?

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 02:43AM

A few posters have noted (paraphrase) "the vast majority of forest fires are caused by lightning strikes."

Is anybody familiar with the weather along the coastal states these last few weeks? Have there been an inordinate amount of thunderheads with lightning activity? Or are we simply assuming that?

I think that may be true in normal times, but these are disturbing times. It strikes me as very unusual that so many arsonists are being caught in the act.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 02:46AM

Yes, I live in California, and three weeks ago we had intense dry lightning storms. It's The main cause of the fires.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 02:53AM


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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 04:45AM

Is it possible that you are looking for a conspiracy that isn't there?

Is it possible that the wildfires are not caused by arson, and that the arson arrests have nothing to do with the big wildfires?

Is it possible that notloggedintoday on the other thread was correct and these arson arrests are unrelated things that wouldn't attract more than local attention (if even that) if it weren't for the wildfires?

Some fires were certainly caused by lightning. One in
Oregon was caused by a campfire (on private land) that was improperly extinguished. Only one large fire in Oregon has been definitely attributed to arson, and that was in southern Oregon and was started by a transient.

Also, not all human caused fires are arson. Some are campfires, some are due to sparks from equipment, or even motor vehicles. Some have been caused by smokers. Lightning strikes can also cause small, smoldering fires that get stoked when high winds happen - as occurred in the west last week.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 03:02AM

An unusual cluster of lightning strikes isn't the problem. What makes by far the greater difference is the higher temperatures, the dryer vegetation, and hence the speed with which the fires spread not just in 2020 but in several previous years as well.

The pattern, Don, as you have implicitly said on occasion, is that average temperatures are steadily rising in some parts of the world--California and the West in general, Australia, etc--and the predicted changes in wildfire patterns are occurring while the predictions for tropical storms are also bearing out.

This is not the story of an indignant Zeus throwing his bolts earthward. It's about humans behaving like bacteria in a Petri dish, suicidally exploiting resources without thought for the future.

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Posted by: Terrible Two ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 05:58AM

donbagley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I live in California, and three weeks ago we
> had intense dry lightning storms. It's The main
> cause of the fires.

Embers can burn away in a forest floor for days before becoming full blown fires.

When I was growing up, we were always told not to throw glass bottles into bushes. Some people say that glass can produce a magnifying glass effect that will set dry materials alight.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 10:22AM

If we are going to use that philosophy on our forrests, we should also use that philosophy on our humans. No more health management, dump your meds, no surgeries, die at your earliest convenience.

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Posted by: logged off today ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 02:11PM

This could be another great branding and marketing opportunity. There used to be Trump Steaks, why not Trump Rakes?

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Posted by: ufotofu ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 04:42AM

"This could be another great branding and marketing opportunity. There used to be Trump Steaks, why not Trump Rakes?"

They're sold out (they actually bought them all themselves).

But, for a limited time only, there are Trump fakes. Even the fake one isreal. The fake ones don't have leaves... though they will be leaving soon.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 13, 2020 06:35PM

No one ever complained about forest fires until people started living in forests.

From what I've read, many, if not most, of the NorCal fires were sparked by lightning. So one might say that forest fires were natural.

I remember seeing a photo in the LA Times in the 1980s. It was a view of a row of burned-out houses on a ridge after a Santa Ana wind-driven fire had swept over them. In the middle of the devastation was a perfectly intact CONCRETE house.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: September 13, 2020 07:44PM

Actually, early settlers in California complained about the wild fire smoke in the fall. Like you said, most of the fires are sparked by lightning. What's new is extreme drought and heat. The fires burn bigger and hotter. Even if people are able to migrate out of the worst areas, the smoke will continue to choke the region.

These last two fire seasons are the worst I've seen here.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 02:05PM

"Season." That's the key word.

In some parts of the West it no longer makes sense to speak of heat waves and fires. Now it's just "August."

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 04:21PM

The situation is similar, in relative terms (i.e. relative to 20 years ago) in Southern Europe. We get heatwaves every year nopw, several times - and we're actually having one now on the continent. The deterioration appears to be relentless.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/16/2020 03:03AM by Soft Machine.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 04:34PM

Australia, too.

It's one thing to say that rising temperatures aren't intolerable; another to ignore the fact that people will die from this and others will have their homes and livelihoods ruined. It's the height of irresponsibility to pretend that global warming isn't a huge deal.

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Posted by: Terrible Two ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 06:03AM

Soft Machine Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The situation is similar, in relative terms (i.e.
> relative to 20 years ago) in Southern Europe. We
> get heatwaves every year nopw, several times - and
> we're actually having one now on the continent.
> The deterioration appears to be relentless.

I was in Greece in '87 and it was obscenely hot back then. 1976 was also a year of big forest fires.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: September 13, 2020 06:41PM


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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 07:43PM


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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 01:04AM

There's also a small derelict blueberry farm of a couple of hundred bushes that need pruning.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: September 13, 2020 06:42PM

5 miles visibility in smoke here..and getting worse.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 07:42PM

You stay safe, Lethro.

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Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: September 13, 2020 06:47PM

Hopefully it won't last too long. Pullman, WA is covered in smoke from the fires. And Beth posted about having to possibly evacuate.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 07:41PM

Still here - Thanks for thinking of me :)

I don't know how to describe this smoke. I have two air purifiers running overtime. I woke up this morning, like at 2 am, having a coughing fit. There has to be some cumulative effect. The purifiers read the indoor air as clean, but I don't think that's the case.

I have an appointment tomorrow to see the doctor - I hope I'll leave with a script for a nebulizer. Some prednisone would be nice, too. And maybe some cough syrup with codeine...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2020 07:42PM by Beth.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 12:45AM

Beth, dear, Don Bagley, and all the rest of my exmo friends who live in my cherished home State of California (I now live in exile in High Desert Country) - if I still believed in a deity who gave a crap about the welfare of humankind, I would be on my artificial knees for hours at a time, praying for your safety and well-being.

I'm getting so I can't take too much news any more. My home State is up in flames; Louisiana, where I lived for a decade, is being pounded by yet another hurricane.

West-Coast dwellers, please know that you are all in my heart. Please stay safe!!

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: September 16, 2020 02:49AM

catnip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> West-Coast dwellers, please know that you are all
> in my heart. Please stay safe!!

Thank you, catnip!

Your warm words are very muchly appreciated.

:)

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Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: September 13, 2020 08:58PM

I have some land in Missouri where we're all supposed to gather if anyone is interested !!!!!

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Posted by: ufotofu ( )
Date: September 13, 2020 10:15PM

Thanks, but, no thanks. I'll wait for the end.

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Posted by: ufotofu ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 10:26PM

I was only kidding. How's the smoke (air) there?

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Posted by: unconventionalideas ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 01:03PM

So I was told climate change is of the devil. Heavenly father wants us to have all of the cars, RVs, and material things we desire.

People who say we have to consume less because our consumption is ruining the planet simply don’t understand God’s plan for us.

Jesus is going to come and clean it up anyway.

So keep calm and party on!

—Some of the things Mormons taught me.

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Posted by: ufotofu ( )
Date: September 15, 2020 09:16PM

Smoke from British Columbia, Canada, across the Pacific Western United States to the Baja, Mexico.

Much of California is experiencing awfully bad air. Portland has the worst air quality in the world right now. Eastern & Western Washington are smokey. Some entire towns and neighborhoods gone. Some fires (Oregon) will burn for weeks (and weeks to come) only being put out with the help of rainfall this fall.

I had the worst Hair quality when waking up this morning. It wasn't a bad hair day it was just a rare day (everything has to be covered with covid and soot). It looked GOOD though. I have good hAIR quality.

Stay inside or try to hide. Just don't died. Please-

Smokey, save us from the smoke. Give the bear a poke! And give me a Coke, bloke. Get rid of this smoke!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2020 10:36PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: ufotofu ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 01:31AM

I was in California earlier this year, B.C. (before covid), and before this hot summer, and the more than 7,900 wildfires in the state so far this year (CalFire). I'm bummed a friend lost everything [and many lost their lives]- as nearly everyone did - in the Camp Fire in Paradise last year.

In Oregon, it is also pretty sad. A few friends got burned out, losses unknown, in the Holiday Farm Fire as the fire raged through forests & towns last weekend.

More acreage was consumed by fire on labor day in Washington than in the last few years.

There are fires everywhere. Western U.S. map of major fires- https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/09/16/USAT/b1f71d9b-11d2-43da-8c33-186e3e2b9d23-major_fires_map_major_fires.png

Fires - Desert Sun: https://data.desertsun.com/fires/

Check the air where you are. Also check your hair! If it's a good check, cash it and call me.

AirNow (AQI) is a partnership of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), National Park Service, NASA, Centers for Disease Control, and tribal, state, and local air quality agencies.

hAIR NOW
https://gispub.epa.gov/airnow/?xmin=-14081535.09880831&ymin=5655117.100650479&xmax=-13249900.231065594&ymax=6596821.289123856&clayer=none&mlayer=ozonepm

Purple Air (green is good, yellow is worse, red is bad, purple is the worst)

https://www.purpleair.com/map?opt=1/mAQI/a10/cC0#1.95/24.65/-110.8

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 02:29AM

Somebody up-thread said we didn't care about forest fires until people started moving into the forest.

You might want to read https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40961561-the-big-burn about a major forest fire in 1910. If you've ever wondered why forests out west are named after Gifford Pinchot, this book will explain it.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: September 18, 2020 12:05AM

I *love* that park! I've been lost there several times, sometimes at dark, once in the snow, and I've kind of sworn off doing that unless someone is with me.

BUT, having a passenger doesn't always prevent a Toonces adventure. I almost drove my brother off a road and into a ravine somewhere near Black Diamond maybe. Tiger Mountain? I don't know, because we were *that* lost and hit a dead end on a dirt road and had to make a U-turn with a granite wall on one side and an abyss on the other. The abyss was on the passenger side, and I told my brother that his yelling wasn't helping, and no, I wasn't trying to kill him, and damn, just don't look out the window. Before we almost died, we got out of the car to take in the view, and BOOM! Tree tops and vertigo. BUT WE'RE STILL ALIVE.

I'll check out the book. I'll be disappointed if Bigfoot doesn't get a mention. Very, very disappointed.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 06:58AM

Some parts of Oregon are getting fog and a bit of rain. Cross your fingers.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 10:34AM

Glad to see you! Did you hunker down?

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Posted by: Tahoe Girl ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 01:10PM

Yes! Central coast doing pretty good right now. Just so worried about all those people breathing that toxic air.

Since there wasn’t enough to worry about already...

TG

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 07:47AM

The haze has even reached the skies over Maryland. The sun has had a strange red glaze over the past few days.

I have heard that the rangers and workers of Forest Service are not allowed to do their jobs properly in terms of clearing out dead trees and bush.

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Posted by: ufotofu ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 10:34PM

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The haze has even reached the skies over Maryland.
>

I saw a map showing a stream WHOLLY across the country.
It's incredible :(

> I have heard that the rangers and workers of Forest Service are not allowed to do their jobs properly in terms of clearing out dead trees and bush.

Trump says he ran out of rakes and he's looking for someone to rake over the coals.

He said there are too many leaves in the forest and if we would just leave them alone they would go away on their own.

He also mentioned something about the trees and how they were too short and skinny- said he couldn't count how many...

It's the last hundred, two hundred, 3 hundred, FOUR hundred years...

These patterns didn't develop overnight

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 10:45PM

That's incredible, the haze from California has traveled to Maryland? It's not as bad here in Utah, last year was much worse. We are currently very dry in Utah but the public is really following the no fire ordinances. I was up in Cache County today in the Wilderness and there are posters up everywhere saying do not burn anything. It's strictly prohibited even in the primitive back country sites.

The way to manage our situation is likely controlled burns. The forests in California need to be cleaned up in the winter months when it's safer. Of course this all takes money, maybe congress could take from the 'sacred military-endless-foreign-wars funds' to pay for the forest management problems. Of course that won't happen...

But as for RVs and polution, I don't see a substantial amount of evidence that we have any idea if it's warming the earth or not. And even if it is, we realy don't know by how much or what's going to happen in the future.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 10:54PM

We know exactly whether the earth is warming, the numbers, and likely future trends.

Here's the evidence in a nice graph.

https://d1o50x50snmhul.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/dn11639-2_800.jpg

And here are the projections.

https://skepticalscience.com/pics/FAR_projections.png

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: September 17, 2020 11:10PM

https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2020/09/17/utah-sets-record-human/

"At least one blaze has erupted every day in Utah since April 18, Cottam said, adding the state has seen a 50% increase in wildfires compared to last year. With 1,275 wildfires reported in 2020 to date, the state is on pace to match the totals for 2018, arguably the worst fire year on record, he added."

"What’s more striking, he said, is that about 1,000 of this year’s blazes were started by humans, representing about three-quarters of the total."

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Posted by: PollyDee ( )
Date: September 18, 2020 12:24AM

Oregon and Washington areas are getting two, maybe three, days of rain starting tonight! Yay!

I am so looking forward to seeing the Sun soon, and breathing fresh, clean air!

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