I don't think he goes to church much. Mom died a couple years ago and even then, they weren't going much because of health and who knows what else.

He was raised Catholic. By the time I was born he and Mom had converted to Mormonism.

He and Mom were welcoming about a Black girlfriend I brought to their house a handful of years ago. For that I will ever be grateful. And for my dark Mexican wife now, as much. Below is my message to him tonight. I've never had this kind of conversation before, might be a shock. But I felt I needed to say it as he's approaching 87 years and Mom died a couple years ago.

Dad,

I am Catholic.

How did I become Catholic?

I didn’t intend to be. But it started a few years ago when I sent a message to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that I wanted to renounce my membership and remove my name from their records.

Why? I couldn’t reconcile the Mormon racist and untruthful past. Things like a letter from the first presidency in 1947 saying, “Intermarriage of the Negro and White races, a concept which has heretofore been most repugnant to most normal-minded people from the ancient patriarchs till now.” They also say that this has “never questioned by any of the Church leaders”

https://ia803006.us.archive.org/29/items/LowryNelson1stPresidencyExchange/Lowry_Nelson_1st_Presidency_Exchange.pdf

Well, I questioned it. And it was because this official declaration was repugnant to me. I can't love someone with dark skin?

More issues came to light, including statements from Brigham Young that anyone who mixes with Negros is “death on the spot.” http://www.mormonthink.com/QUOTES/blackintermarriage.htm

Women I have loved, black and brown, would not fit their definition of whom I should be associated with or love.

The Church now says that they have never been racist. It’s a lie. Covering for their past leaders' statements. If they had direct communication with God, why say these things?

Added is knowledge that Joseph Smith married over 30 women, most without his wife knowing or giving consent, and two that were fourteen year-olds. Only with pressure and evidence the church has admitted this (and made excuses.) Send husbands on missions and marry their wives, or simply say God told him to. And finally admitted that according to the LDS website was “including the possibility of sexual relations.”

So, I married in the Catholic church in Mexico.

My wife Rosa wanted to marry in the Catholic church. We approached a representative in Mexico and asked.

The first thing the priest asked me was to prove I was no longer a member of the Mormons. I showed them the letter from Salt Lake saying I was no longer a member. I was glad that I had already taken this step before I met Rosa.

The priest then gave me a couple pamphlets to read. I did.

A couple months later, he gave me my test. It was a ten-minute conversation, including my understanding of the Trinity and recitation of the ten commandments. I passed. And in Spanish, too.

Do I believe everything? No. Can I reconcile everything horrible that the Catholic church has done in the past? No. Do I attend every week? No. Most weeks I play golf on Sunday mornings, like today. But I am content that I’m not attending or giving any more money to a cult. anymore.

Good letter.

DEFUND THE CULT!

hujo Wrote:
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> Good letter.
>
> DEFUND THE CULT!
I misread and for a minute I thought you said defend the cult

I was born into the Catholic church. Your approach to it is not unusual. It is what I think of as a "big tent" religion. It can accommodate a wide variety of belief and practice, including people who rarely darken the door of a church.

Even though I no longer consider myself Catholic, there is a camaraderie among most Catholics and former Catholics that is lovely. It is like people who have lived in the same neighborhood, or who have worked at the same job. You will always be a member of the "club."

I'm glad that your parents accepted your girlfriend, and later, your wife. Good people are good people regardless of religion.

Thanks, Summer. I went to exactly one confession (maybe? I don't quite remember) and it was during my interview. I think. Anyway, I've never been to any confession post-baptism.

We went to church once in a while after getting married for the first year. Nice deal: 45-60 minutes (45 in Mexico, 60 in the U.S.) but not again in about two years.

I really shouldn't have sent that message to my father. Seemed like a good idea at the time, but perhaps not productive or of value.

His response was in two parts...first was to mention one of his favorite Supreme Court cases, Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967), which we know was (as he said) "a landmark civil rights decision of the U.S. Supreme Court in which the Court ruled that laws banning interracial marriage violate the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution." Good movie, too.

Maybe a nod to his feeling that racism has no place in our world. And/or appreciation for a decent SCOTUS ruling.

Second was that he appreciated the link to letters to/from the church, which he will "file". A note that he's glad the church ended ban on priesthood for Blacks in 1978.

No direct response to me leaving mormonism. That's just him and I shouldn't expect (or require) a response. He's accepting, kind, and has his own issues with the church. Based on what Mom told me over the years he really didn't like the temple. "I'd rather have a root canal than go to the temple," as she quoted him once, lol.

But he's sincere, private, and of the generation that did their duty, stayed loyal, and didn't complain. He just leads his life as he wants I think and does it in privately.

But wow, to accept my Puerto Rican and Black girlfriend in their home (overnight!) was meaningful to me. He's a classy guy.

"recitation of the ten commandments" ... did you recite the protestant 10 commandments or did you recite the catholic 10 commandments ?

Enquiring minds like mine want to know.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> "recitation of the ten commandments" ... did
> you recite the protestant 10 commandments or did
> you recite the catholic 10 commandments ?
>
> Inquiring minds like mine want to know.


Simple...it was recited exactly as written in the Bible.

I'll let you figure it out :)

So you are telling us that the protestant bible is the same as the catholic bible ? Are you merely another religious illiterate ?
I'll let you figure it out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2020 08:43PM by Dave the Atheist.

It was a joke. As also how I interpreted your question.

For an atheist you take doctrine of sects seriously. I don't.

So stop evading and answer the question.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> So stop evading and answer the question.

You demand a response? It is that you are an idiot,

Granted, so that that all can see.

Please try to respond to my definition of you. Make it more evident.

(And cry...give me tears.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/15/2020 12:03AM by txrancher.

Very honest letter to your dad txrancher. I like letters written to either loved one's or to even letters to mind bending groups like the LDS organization. The letter can bring us a little bit closer to sanity in a sort of insanely driven world sometimes. A leader inside Mormonism doesn't ever really benefit from the letter but we sure might. It helps to bring maybe a little bit of order into the almost intangible tangles that could be almost trying to drive us crazy.

My mom got the heartfelt letter from deep inside my soul. It was very very kind, it didn't try and resolve all the differences it simply closed at the end wishing she would always pray for me and I would always be sure to pray for her.
My dad? He didn't get nor need "the letter" he got to read the one mom received and they maybe could discuss or not have discussed it's content, as far as either loved one were maybe able. I don't know.
Dad did end up getting cancer and dying and with all of the Mormon dynamics at play (along with other thing's I'm sure) I decided fairly quickly to be his caretaker during a brutal 100 days or so. He got good care from only me and Mormon family was expressly absent as expected. Weird how the LDS mind bend routinely seems to almost guarantee certain things. It was tough but maybe what kept me going was small coincidences along the way and the ability to retreat to a great friend about a hundred miles away after it was all over. Big, gigantic lesson learned during that spell.. Ready? Here it is, some things are not fixable by you. That's not to completely condemn the possibility of slight chance for acceptance and maybe resolution but fate gets it hand at a try, most times it seems.

Sorry to go a little off track, we all have beliefs, belief systems and to anyone who wants to argue there is only one sure outcome. They'll loose their argument, heh heh..