I'm going to try to be as calm and rational as I can, & try very, very hard to not use any profanity.

I'm crumbling, and I'm losing it. I'm fighting a losing war. I can't deal anymore with this type of mentality that consistently assaults my intellect and my worth. A mentality that says that I'm pathetic and unworthy. I don't know why I'm even posting this anonymously.

Honey, you need to take some time to just care for yourself. I could have made this same post in February. DH had his hours cut back at work, it looked like we couldn't pay our bills, it looked like the Mormons were winning with charming my kids, we ended up owing the IRS instead of getting the refund we were desperate for...I felt pretty pathetic and unworthy myself.

So I literally took about two weeks and just gave up. DH took care of the kids and the cooking (after all, he had tons of spare time. I slept a lot. I was totally selfish and took care of myself. I let myself lose it. I let myself shut down and take time to repair and rebuild. You aren't pathetic or unworthy. You deserve some TLC from yourself. Everyone goes through these black holes in life where it's all too much. It's OK to check out for a while and rebuild. You can do it. But everyone needs some rest - no one can run marathons one after another. Let yourself heal - do the minimum. Everyone will get by and you'll feel better when you emerge. Good luck. I'm totally sending good thoughts your way because I understand something of how your feelings. Good luck - good luck - good luck.

I really & truly wish it were that easy. I'm not able to do anything of the sort, unfortunately. Right now, people think I'm lazy and selfish. If I were to do anything for myself, I would be considered even more lazy and selfish.

...no matter *what* you do. So do what you need to do anyway.

"If I were to do anything for myself, I would be considered even more lazy and selfish."

Have you ever flown in an airplane? They tell you "If the oxygen masks fall from the ceiling, put yours on first before trying to help anyone else." Because if you don't, you CAN'T help anyone else; you'll pass out from lack of oxygen.

From my own observations of Mormons, they are programmed to resist the idea that they should take care of their own needs first. This is normal for you to feel this way - but it's also programming that you can get rid of over time. So I tell you right now, to help you deprogram: you always have the right to take care of your own needs first, regardless of what other people think.

Just remember that the opinions of a few represent only what they think from a certain point of view under very limited circumstances. Their opinions, no matter how hurtful, are by no means universal -- no matter how badly they want to convince you otherwise. Sometimes you are just stuck in a bad, toxic situation. Change the situation, change the people around you, and all of a sudden you are flourishing.

The best thing to do is to put some distance between you and whomever is hurting you, if not now, then as soon as you can. When a person is handing me a lot of negativity, I often think to myself, "you're looking in a mirror" -- because such constant negativity says a whole lot more about that person than it does about me.

Keep believing in yourself. Of course you are worthy! Why wouldn't you be? Ignore the troglodytes!

Patience and time. You know better than those who judge and treat you less than you deserve as a thinking feeling human being. We also know better. Hang in there. Anyone you know at all that you can talk to, friends, coworker, non-mo relatives?

Maybe there is an ex or postmormon that lurks here that you could talk to or meet so that you can get some personal support. If you are willing to give your approximate location maybe that's an option.

You are smart and brave. Don't listen to those who will belittle you to make themselves look better. Many narcicists will project their own failings onto others. Next time you are attacked or accused think if those words really apply to the speaker. Find a way to remove these negative people from your life. They don't deserve you.

Everything is about appearances with them. I don't mean 'perfect' appearances, but how things are perceived as opposed to how things really are. To them, as long as everyone else thinks everything is OK, that's all that matters.

This is tied to the mentality that things only need to be 'good enough'. No, I'm not talking about expensive things over cheap things. I'm talking about getting things that work instead of being such a cheap miser that you always buy cheap things that can be ruined so easily because in this mentality it's 'good enough'. What this mentality has done is make my life **that** much harder. I'm a very frugal person, but I've come to realize that it's better to buy something that works and won't break, than something that's cheap.

Then there is this - With one certain individual, this person believes that any voicing of opinion is an attack against them. If you voice your opinion, make a suggestion, ask a question they don't like, **say** anything they don't like - you are attacking them; you are the horrible abusve person. It doesn't matter what it's about. Another individual baits me into fights, and I realize they are doing this now, and I walk away. Sometimes, I'm not able to physically though. This person also says that anything that comes out if my mouth is 'contrary'.

I have tried so hard to change. I used to have an unbelievably explosive temper because I couldn't handle being abused or bullied. I've tried so hard to not be self centered. To do things before I'm even asked. Yes, I'm still belligerent, to a small point. Yes, I still have many other problems. But all they see is how I was before I was 26. Since that age I've changed a great deal, but they don't want to acknowledge anything. No matter what I do in my life I'm always going to be an embarrassment to them. I'm realizing that now. They think I'm a complete joke and a complete failure. That any goals I have are too lofty, too unattainable, or that I'm not good enough to attain them. I'm trying so hard to not crumble completely, but right now it's too difficult.

Your goals will get you to where you want to be in life. If you do not currently have the capacity to be self-supporting, try to develop that capacity if you are able to do so. If you can't do it right now, then plan for a time when you can. Education is key. Economic independence is a great vehicle for self-esteem.

The person who sees you voicing your opinion as an attack -- that's a useful defense against your opinions. Be calm, be reasonable, but ultimately, you have just as much right to your opinions as that person does to theirs.

Learning how to respond calmly in explosive situations is a skill that you learn through practice. The one thing that I have learned is that anger and emotionality seldom help a person who has lost control (it just tends to escalate the situation.) It also helps if you discuss problems as they arise, and not when they've built up to the point of frustration (I do realize that other people may be preventing you from discussing those issues.)

Distance can be a blessing. Plan for a time when you can get away from these toxic people. You deserve better than what you're getting.

I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time. Sounds like you have a lot to process, and that this is a good place for that given what you're working through. Please remember that others don't get to define who you are - that is yours and ours alone. Take care and be good to yourself. (((hug)))

and I frequently am, I would immediately start a new dialogue in your head where you start saying nice things about yourself. Screw what they say to you. The only thing that matters is what you say to yourself.

I wanted you to know I read your post. I've been through pretty horrific stuff in my life and there was a time when I really, really, really needed someone to let me heal, but I was left to raise 2 kids on my own after some really traumatic experiences. Everyone was also judging me--including my ex and his partner--they even wanted to throw me in a mental institution while they were abusive to me. Everyone--including members of my family--thought I was a huge failure, yet came to me with all THEIR problems and then couldn't figure out why I was such a mess.

Some of them have to constantly remind me of that time and so I cut them out of my life. None of them could have done what I did and survived.

I have gotten to the point that I have truly cut everyone out of my life who sucks me dry or who won't allow me to progress or move forward. I finally can say I am at a really good place in terms of how I feel about myself and the progress I've made. It took a lot of therapy to just quit caring what everyone else thinks and to live my life as I see fit.

When I left Mormonism, I felt like my reputation got dragged through the mud. People felt like I lost my belief for all kinds of reasons that had nothing to do with reality. It was extremely difficult for me to handle because I'm someone who does care a lot about what other people think of me even if I don't want to care about it.

I had to shift my focus from them to me. I knew why I did what I did. Every day I had look at myself and say that what I knew was more important than what they thought.

If I came across rumors or misinformation being spread about me, I won't lie - it was tough. But I found that I had to find peace from myself because no one else was going to give it to me.

You've probably already been doing this to some extent, but I believe it's CRITICAL to develop the ability to run any external judgment through your own filter and trust yourself to decide it's worth. If you know it's not an accurate reflection of who you are, decide right know that you won't take it to heart. If you're someone like me who naturally does take things to heart, that's not easy to do, but it's the only way to keep your sanity - especially if you're receiving constant negative feedback (which it sounds like you are).

If you do change, change because it's the right thing to do (like you mentioned with your temper over the years), NOT to please someone else.

It sounds like you're in a tough spot - I wih you nothing but the best as you try to work through it.

Anon: We spend our entire lives worrying about what "others" think about us. We grow older and find out nobody was really paying attention.

Worrying about what others think is a waste of time. Concern yourself with yourself. The "others" will never be there for you, you're walking through this life, virtually most of the time, alone. Like all of us, with interludes with others that make it interesting.

Put a M@@@@@F@@@@G smile on your face, get up and get going. It really is that easy. Really!

Try therapy. You need someone who can help you decide your priorities, where you want your resources to go, and which relationships you need to change or abandon. Some of this is your problem, that is good because those are the things you have the power to change. Other people will not change, and you set yourself up for pain if you believe they will. It sounds like an environment that constantly "assaults my intellect and my worth" is not the place to be. The next steps you take are going to take courage (and will probably shock the fire out of all the people that thought they had you pegged). Use your anger constructively, but go for it. And keep us informed. Good luck!

the people who are making your life miserable.

But you need to put distance between you and them.

If you live with them, move out or minimize contact until you can. Or put them in their place the next time it starts. Figure out what you are going to say next time to STOP them, and practice it in your head. (Something along the lines of "STOP IT! I'm not going to listen to that garbage anymore" . . . and then fill in with whatever is appropriate to the situation)

If you DON'T live with them, severly limit or end contact.

REWRITE the rules of engagement with these people.

You are an adult. NOBODY is entitled to criticize you (unless it's your boss, an even then you can leave if it's a toxic situation).

If you don't specifically ASK someone for feedback, they are not authorized to give unsolicited advice or criticism. Not your MOM, not your DAD, not your HUSBAND, not your KIDS, and not even your aunt Betty Jo the Relief Society President. Not even Oprah! If they start with it, tell them you didn't ASK for their opinion. If they continue, then walk away or hang up the phone.

I know people who have been victims of severe verbal abuse, and it's crushing Even if they KNOW the person giving the abuse is wrong, the horrible things said are so hurtful. Protect yourself. Don't listen to that crap for a second. Let yourself heal.

I highly suggests reading books on Verbal Abuse. Patricia Evans is a good author on the subject and here is a link to one of her books. You can click on this to read the symptoms and characteristics of verbal abuse, and I might add that your feelings are spot on for abuse.

http://www.amazon.com/Verbally-Abusive-Relationship-Recognize-Respond/dp/1558505822#reader_1558505822

Please take care.

is available online. If you go down to page 23, it talks about the symptoms of emotional abuse.

Keep Going!

An excellent quote from Winston Churchill.

that is very powerful that what others think and say about you is not true, not to be believed, and is most likely about them?

Stick to what you know is the truth about the best of you and repeat it if necessary.

My suggestion is to do all you can to separate yourself from those that are not supportive and loving.

Can you find a counselor that can assist you with what you are going through? Hopefully that will be very helpful also.

When I have been in my darkest hours, I remembered a comment made to me: The only way out is through~!
And boy oh boy was I glad to be.....through! :-)

If possible get away from the people in the church. Not saying move, even though that can work. Get a police restraining order. I know I don't like calling the cops but in these cases it is warranted.

We are all creatures of habit. We naturally adapt to our environment even if it is a sick environment like the mormon church. By letting them make you feel like this you are letting them inside of your head. My advice would be to take some time and get away. It will be hard at first because they have played the drums on your brain for so long. Once you step away and come back to reality you will think back on how evil those people are.

You are a good person who deserves respect. You deserve a better life for yourself. Don't let anyone tell you any different. Best of luck to you! I feel much sympathy for you and know you can get out from under that cloud. Just give it time. This site is awesome for advice. Just knowing you are not alone is a big help.

I've been in your position a couple of times. I finally came out to my TBM DH, and he has agreed I can leave if I want, but the people in my ward are nice, so for social reasons, I only attend SM and then split and pick up the kids after church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2011 07:29AM by imalive.

AnonforThis --

You wrote

"Then there is this - With one certain individual, this person believes that any voicing of opinion is an attack against them. If you voice your opinion, make a suggestion, ask a question they don't like, **say** anything they don't like - you are attacking them; you are the horrible abusve person. It doesn't matter what it's about. Another individual baits me into fights, and I realize they are doing this now, and I walk away. Sometimes, I'm not able to physically though. This person also says that anything that comes out if my mouth is 'contrary'."

and

"I have tried so hard to change."

************

This sounds to me like you're "walking on eggshells." You have people in your like that are temperamental and faultfinding, and insist that everything be done their way. Sometimes warm and fuzzy, but usually a terror. They're manipulating you in ways that are so subtle and complex that you can barely even untangle yourself mentally, let alone be yourself and live your own life.

I was in this situation for 18 months in a relationship. It was terrible, unlike anything I've ever experienced before or since. My situation had nothing to do with Mormonism, it sounds like your situation may, if you have a controlling spouse that insists that everything be done his/her way, etc. Threatens in all sort of subtle ways, usually by throwing occasional tantrums and always being on the edge of one, sucking you dry emotionally for support, threatening to hurt themselves if you ever leave them, etc.

People that make you "walk on eggshells" often have a diagnosable condition called "Borderline Personality Disorder."

The good news is that there are methods by which you can untangle yourself from their talons. Even if they're your mother, husband, child, etc. It takes time, but I did it. I wish I'd have done it sooner.

I recommend the book "How to Stop Walking on Eggshells" 1998. You can buy it used online through half.com for $1 + shipping. Or you can browse it secretly at the library or bookstore. It was key to helping me recognize the situation I was in, and survive in it more comfortably, and decompress after I got out.

*********

Also, it sounds like your manipulating people may be using the Mormon church and "God" to justify their actions and criticisms. Whatever their intentions, you can easily isolate things at your end by simply asking yourself whether any self-respecting deity would stand behind the crap that is being thrown your way. Like "With one certain individual, this person believes that any voicing of opinion is an attack against them."

The answer is, obviously, "no."

Not that it's going to do any good to tell them that, but it is important for you to keep this in mind when trying to keep your mind sorted out.

If this is helpful to you, feel free to ask more questions and I may be able to answer more. I've done my best to forget about that chapter of my life...

RG

***********

Here's a couple passages from the 'net

Book review --
"Stop Walking on Eggshells: Coping When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder is a self-help guide that helps the family members and friends of individuals with borderline personality disorder (BPD) understand this self-destructive disorder and learn what they can do to cope with it and take care of themselves. It is designed to help them understand how the disorder affects their loved ones and recognize what they can do to get off the emotional roller coasters and take care of themselves."
http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-
Personality/dp/157224108X

"In particular she chose to treat people with a diagnosis that she would have given her young self: borderline personality disorder, a poorly understood condition characterized by neediness, outbursts and self-destructive urges, often leading to cutting or burning. In therapy, borderline patients can be terrors--manipulative, hostile, sometimes ominously mute, and notorious for storming out threatening suicide."
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201106/the-great-divide-who-has-borderline-
disorder-suicidal-cutters-per

Large parts of the book are available at google books. Try this line, or find it through a google search.
http://books.google.com/books?id=_8rw4jSWQNEC&pg=PA159&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#
v=onepage&q&f=false



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2011 05:28PM by reinventinggrace.