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Posted by: epiphany ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 02:13AM

It’s been so long, I forgot my original log in but I was once rubycakes on here. I took a long break after I found a lot of healing here. But it’s a process.

I am looking for a book or something on the massacre that isn’t written by a TBM or spun towards making Mormons look innocent. So basically the truth. Anyone have a good resource on this?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 02:19AM

Juanita Brooks's book is a classic and still very good.

Perhaps the best contemporary volume, which includes a considerable dollop of stuff unavailable to Brooks, is

https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Prophets-Brigham-Massacre-Mountain/dp/0806136391/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=mountain+meadows+bagley&qid=1613978284&sr=8-1

And here is a 2011 publication that was written in part by church historians, perhaps as an attempt to spin Bagley's account, and hence is not entirely reliable:

https://www.amazon.com/Massacre-Mountain-Meadows-Ronald-Walker/dp/0199747563/ref=pd_bxgy_3/145-4351756-1522957?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0199747563&pd_rd_r=395ade89-e967-4dd3-82f4-bf3756651fb5&pd_rd_w=7j7c3&pd_rd_wg=1c5rU&pf_rd_p=f325d01c-4658-4593-be83-3e12ca663f0e&pf_rd_r=3G7J8FQF5SMPXP1PGYTJ&psc=1&refRID=3G7J8FQF5SMPXP1PGYTJ

I look forward to seeing what others recommend.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2021 02:23AM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: epiphany ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 02:24AM

Thanks! I was unsure of Juanita Brooks version as isn’t she a member? I will absolutely check these out.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 02:33AM

Brooks was a Mormon her entire life. The book led many to conclude that she had lost her testimony, but at least one neighbor reported seeing Brooks climbing a tree with what were assuredly garments under her dress. So she may have retained a faith that somehow did not prevent her from doing seriously history.

The book is frankly a great example of how an independent woman can do real work in, and despite, a patriarchal community. Her account also includes information from participants in the massacre whom she personally knew. For that alone it is worth reading. If there are flaws in her history, they stem from a narrower range of available resources than more recent authors have enjoyed.

If I were you, I'd read the Bagley volume to get the up-to-date history (he's able, for example, to tie the tragedy closer to Brigham Young) and the Brooks book to get closer in time and see what participants actually saw, thought, and remembered. The volume by Walter et al., may merit a look but I'd put it as a definite third choice.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 02:40AM

They are both very good books (I'm currently reading the Bagley one), but the Brooks book was particularly hard-hitting for me BECAUSE she was a believing mormon - but didn't let that get in the way of truth and honesty, despite being horrified by what she found.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 02:49AM

Brooks fully expected to be excommunicated for writing that book and was surprised when it didn't happen. If she'd been related to a prophet like Fawn Brody was, or wrote in the last 30 years, she probably would have been booted.

In any case, she didn't care what the church did. This is, after all, a widow and mother who picked up and moved to NYC to do a master's degree in the late 1920s--only several years after women in the US received the franchise.

I consider her an intellectual and moral giant.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2021 02:50AM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 10:04AM

"I consider her an intellectual and moral giant."

I agree. One of the really impressive intellectuals to come out of mormon culture.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 04:59AM

To "Blood of the Prophets." He co-authored it with David Bigler (whose last book, "Confessions of a Revisionist Historian," Will edited). The title is "Innocent Blood."

https://www.amazon.com/Innocent-Blood-Essential-Narratives-Mountain/dp/0870623621

The only reason I bothered to read the Turley, Walker, Leonard work is because somebody graciously sent me a copy.

For "serious scholars only," Shannon Novak wrote "House of Morning." She was the forensic anthropologists who was allowed to examine the victims' remains that were accidntally unearthed in the 1999 monument reconstruction.

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Posted by: auntsukey ( )
Date: February 23, 2021 09:15AM

This book takes Blood of the Prophets" one step further.
All of the primary sources are included and allow the reader to make their own judgments.

The church's "Cover Story" is detailed.

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 08:12AM

Yes, “Blood of The Prophets” by Will Bagley.

I hit a part that was so scalding that I asked my husband to take the book and hide it from me, and not bring it out even if I ask.

“Massacre at Mountain Meadows” by William wise is excellent.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 08:31AM


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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 10:38AM

I visited the home in St. George where Juanita wrote her book; her spirit seemed to still reside there.

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 12:22PM

"Blood of the Prophets" by Bagley was the final straw for this camel's back and shortly after reading it, I resigned from TSCC.
It's well written, IMO, but there are details of the massacre that are difficult to read.

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Posted by: epiphany ( )
Date: February 22, 2021 11:52PM

Thanks all, much appreciated!

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: February 23, 2021 02:20AM


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Posted by: auntsukey ( )
Date: February 23, 2021 09:10AM

The details in Jon Krakhauer's book differs slightly from Bagley's. Krakhauer is an excellent journalist but Bagley is considered the modern day authority on the MMM.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=under+the+banner+of+heaven&hvadid=77653063135476&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_47v4dcx6ve_e


Here is Will Bagley speaking about the MMM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSv_pDIpAd0&feature=youtu.be

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