From time to time I have still these awkward kind of flashbacks. When I remember those "interviews behind closed doors" with that bishop. How he treated me. What he promised me in the name of Gawd. How inappropriate it was, how he violated my boundaries and how helpless I felt. It took me years to admit that he actually harassed me, assaulted me. That it wasn't consent what had happened. That I am a victim. How I let it happen anyways. It's still so painful, after all these years.
He gained my trust, my friendship and then used everything he could against me, to make me pliable.
He played a filthy, dirty game.

And for them it is me, who is guilty, who made the "mistake", who made him do this, who seduced this poor being, is the faulty one, for some just a bluntly liar, an attention w**re. While he is in good standing, holding still his callings, his TR. They will let him get away with it, even if he is doing it again.

It is good that you say it like this, that it was an attack, rather than "spiritual guidance," and whatever else they insist that it is. And every person raised in the church is aware of this, and possibly had similarly bad experiences, but they still send off their minor children into the same situation, the very same predicament.

Amazing how mormonism has stifled the 'Fight or Flight' mechanism and put in its place a "you have to take what the authorities dish out" response.

In fraternity hazing, the plegges are taught that when a member paddles them, they have to sheepishly say, "Thank you. May I have another?"

At least in most hazing situations, the hazee gets to move on to become a hazer. In mormonism, there's always someone higher, to whom it is expected we will say, "Thank you, brother. May I have another."

elderolddog Wrote:
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> Amazing how mormonism has stifled the 'Fight or
> Flight' mechanism and put in its place a "you have
> to take what the authorities dish out" response.
>

The failure of TSCC to accomplish this basic tenant is what got me started out. I have long been known for my problem with authority and I wonder if being a convert might have had something to do with it. Not growing up in the church kept me from being exposed to that pressure my whole life.

People would be outraged if a teacher or school principal asked these types of invasive questions, but when a religious leader does it, it's okay, because "God." The law gives religions an undeserved free pass with minors in this regard.

The church was another one of my abusive relationships. With as many excuses as I make for the church, it only takes a few minutes at any service to remind me why I left.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2021 06:52AM by bradley.

Tapir in disguise Wrote:
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> That I am a victim.

It is a hard thing to accept sometimes. I hope you can find some acceptance of it.

I remind myself daily that things happened to me outside of my control that profoundly affected me and became a part of me. It is good to realize and painful. It helps sometimes inoculate.

Several women are accusing a politician of sexual harrassment. I have read their accounts of his actions, and quotes of what he has said to them.

I want you-all to know that I have had ALL those things said and done to me by Mormons in my various wards, and most of the verbal stuff happened in bishop's interviews, behind closed doors.

I was unmarried for a long time, and divorced for an even longer time, and was a working mother, out in the business world. I had no husband to protect me, no father or brothers close by. As my sons got bigger, they stepped in to defend me several times.

I was a target. I looked nice, for work, and dated a lot, and was always very moral and modest. I was not beautiful or sexy, but I was a dancer and a model for a while. Growing up, I was in love and faithful to my high school boyfriend--no one measured up to him in sweetness, humor, intelligence, charm and good looks. I was open and friendly and very naive at first, and even later, I still gave people the benefit of the doubt. An average, polite, good Mormon girl, I did not deserve to be sexually harrassed by those creepy older men!

I just took it as "Obnoxious, repulsive, arrogant Mormon male behavior. AS IF I would ever want to have them put their hands on me or let them flirt with me! They were married! ICK! I grew up not liking Mormon men very much. The bishops that propositioned me, also propositioned other single women I knew, and those other women pretty much kept their mouths shut, like I did. The stake president's counsellor in his 50's did have success with a neighbor's married daughter in her 20's, and her husband caught them in bed together. I just assume the men who did and said things to me, did and said them to others, which is often the case. I wasn't one to think men were interested in me, or anything. In that way, I was an introvert, and rapidly became moreso, as I retreated into my shell around them and their wives. My divorced neighbor, who looked like a young Angie Dickensen, and was more submissive than I was, had a worse time than I had. The wives hated her.

I did not ASK or INVITE this behavior. I was repelled by these men. They made me more than "uncomfortable". They made me extremely depressed, and sometimes physically ill. I did not want to see them ever again, yet I had to go to church. I did not let my children be interviewed by these creeps, but when they came over to my house, mostly with their counselors, (never alone) I let them inside.

I wore thick clothes, so they couldn't see or feel my underwear. I know men feel for garments, and I just did not like it, but never considered that sexual harrassment--all the Mormons did it, and talked about their underwear. A former stake president offered to show me how to work the copy machine at the church, and he grabbed me and put his hand up my skirt. A single guy made a comment to me, in the kitchen at a ward party, and I didn't understand what he said. I had to ask someone what he meant, and it was something I considered nasty and perverted under the best of circumstances.

I had a man friend in our ward, and he and I would run into the bishop and his wife socially, at the symphony and at business parties, etc. That bishop would ask me in interviews if I had done specific and graphic sex acts with my boyfriend. He enjoyed picturing and describing things to me. I felt insulted and demeaned, and I would say, "No, no, you don't know me. I would never do that." Besides, my man friend was gay.

There was one bishop who kept complaining to me that "his wife didn't understand him." He used those same tired old words. He would tell me that he was "enduring to the end" in his marriage. I said that I was the wrong person to talk to about marriage, after my disasterous divorce.

Several times, I told Mormon men that I could not be phony or keep a secret, and that I had the bad habit of blabbing everything around to everybody, especially my sons or boyfriends. That seemed to stop them in their tracks.

Some Mormon men bullied my children, and I actually had to throw three different men, or groups of men, out of my house, on three separate occasions. My kids were there each time, and we finally decided to quit the church altogether. My kids were so relieved, that they cried. That's what really stopped the harrassment and bullying. We will never return, and will probably never really like or trust Mormons again.

No, sexual harrassment or child abuse has nothing to do with love or admiration or friendship or "caring" or anything good. These people are predators, and there are too many of them. Just like the cult itself, they don't care about women or children.

Sorry to ramble, but I could write a book. The accused mayor has nothing on the Mormon leaders we have endured.

This is a great post.

I am so sorry that you had to endure that. I think a lot of young women get at least some of that kind of uninvited, unwanted behavior, but you got a *lot* of it (and from so-called religious men!)

Dear Breeze, over the years I've read with interest several small parts of your experiences, but gathering them together in this way is very powerful. I'm tempted to say, it's lucky you are clever and strong, but it's a pity you were forced to be.

One last thing: I didn't see any rambling going on. I thought it was coherent, structured and rather well written ;-)

Perhaps you SHOULD write that book - at least for RfMers ;-). You could always change names.

Tom in Paris



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2021 05:40PM by Soft Machine.