My mother was TBM and my father was a Catholic of sorts. When they married they made an agreement that any children could go to either church and could decide which to join when they turned 18. Since my mother was by far the most religious of the two, I was mostly raised as a Mormon. I grew up in a small town. We had 7 churches so I had a lot of experience with various religions.I attended several churches at times but considered myself a Mormon. I knew I would not be baptized with my friends and while I didn't like it, I accepted it and no one either in my mother's Mormon family or in the church ever approached me secretly to try to get me baptized or encouraged me to disobey my father. It never happened. I am not saying that such things do not happen, but from my experience they are not the norm, at least with outsiders. Fanatical families can be another story. In fact my mother once asked our bishop what the policy is if one parent wanted the children baptized and the other didn't. He told her that such children could only be baptized if both parents agreed and that he would never perform such an ordinance. While we continually hear horror stories here about clandestine baptisms, we need to understand that all Mormons do not act that way and that such things are against church policy even if policy isn't always followed.While we need to be careful and our children need to know our feelings, especially if we know people who might try to go behind our backs, we do not need to over react to every Mormon who might speak to our kids.Friends often invite friends to go to church with them. I did it and so did my friends in other faiths. If you don't want your kiss to go, just say no and let it go. If it is adults, that is a more serious matter.Be vigilant and tell you kids how to answer ,but do not paranoid. BTW, my dad died when I was in my early teens and I was baptized then. I started my exit from the church a few years later.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2011 02:23AM by bona dea.

having someone love you with a differing perspective than tbm gave you an immense place & emotional cultural formation from which to begin. It shows in how you post.

Your mom must have been an extraordinary young tbm woman to fall in love with him, and do the multi cultural dance that perspective required of her (not going through the temple with him and all) I wonder where that put her socially in the rest of the tbm community? He must have brought her something wonderful or different, after all, she selected and wanted him when she was looking initially. ;_ It says something doesn't it, that even though somebody is tbm or insists they are tbm, initially they were attracted to him, a non tbm :)

My mom was a jack mormon, which means she was tbm in part of her thoughts and heart which held her in its grasp. She married a non member who supported her & fully embraced her adventures growing varietals, making barrels of wine, and micro brewing beers. Her choice was into a catholic man's life & tribe as well. He seemed inactive in a mormon sense no doubt, only heading into tribal rituals like weddings & funerals but with a non catholic wife and a traveling job he'd never tell.There is no knowing where his friends were on his stops along the road. That openness allowed her exploration of life including the vineyard, and finding fossils from the inland seabed upon which they built their house while they commandeered old heavy equipment to dig their own pool out by the barn.

I married a catholic man, he converted for me. I didnt' know initially why a catholic schools offered my children tuition if he'd teach 8th grade science after work at the the high school. How did they even know him? it wasn't until I broke with the church I foundout other people think their spiritual choice and walk is private, not a public decision or discussion. My spouse had his own priest apparently there are many mass times or conversation times. There should have been a hint when I was 28 and a priest came into my hospital room and asked if he could sit with me and pray with my husband. It went right over me . in retrospect I am relieved that Dan found some stress relief through whatever religious ritual or pray connection he had, that meant anything to him during the tremendous pressures of my own & my kids' surgeries.

Personally I think it really confuses the tbm or real cult mentality that anyone could love someone as much or more than themself, or help them out entirely, even though they were thinking or acting differently- that someone would love and care about them- that way- exactly the way they were. Who knew! that someone would care about someone who thought or acted differently than you! what is that? un narcisitic? no needing to see oneself in the mirror to love them? because you aren't just needing a reflection of yourself to love anyways?

OMG whatever the pressure- there is something great to be said about our parents.

no Mormons but lots of strong Christian believers, ministers in the family, etc.

The family saw to it that baptisms occurred in the local Christian Church when one of the ministers could be present to perform the baptism. I was baptized at age 10 when an adult relative had finished serving in the military after WW2. It was a matter of following in the footsteps of the family traditions. Nobody questioned it, it was acceptable as appropriate.
We didn't attend church regularly or have family prayers or Bible reading in the home, growing up.

Not everyone in our family was equally interested in attending and participating in church meetings and events. I was the most active member in my early teens on, probably because I had friends that were involved. Church was part of my social life. I had many opportunities to learn leadership skills also.
I was also a performing musician and had another completely different set of social friends.

As I was a young adult convert, married in the temple, living Mormonism fully, as believers, we baptized all of our children when they were eight years old as that was the expectation, just as my family growing up had expectations of baptism in their church of choice.

I have friends and relatives that are baptized members of the LDS Church (and other churches, of course), who do the same thing I experienced in my life: we followed the religious patterns and choices of the family. It was a serious and happy occasion.

I know I have no say-so, or power in what other parents do regarding their children's religious upbringing if there is one. It's their right to make choices they think are best at the time.
People are going to live by religious views that are not part of my personal life, and that's fine with me.
If I am invited to attend, I'll attend any religious ritual/ceremony.

I do know that some people think they have some entitlement or power to impose their religious choices on other people. I am confident that parents can and do, generally, take their responsibility about religious choices seriously.

Do some people occasionally impose their religious views on others inappropriately? Of course they do.


I think it's important to understand that Mormonism, generally, in most cases operates as a generational, religious, patriarchal tribe. The insiders behave in a certain manner that subscribes to the religious rituals and ceremonies established in generations past around the concept of the Eternal Family in the Celestial Kingdom.

That is the reason, in many cases, for exclusion.When someone leaves the religious tribe, they often receive the consequences of the family who are reacting out of rejection and betrayal. This often is the reason that some are very intrusive about keeping the "lost sheep" in the tribe.

Because of this kind of religious construct, there will, at times, be those who have a strong sense of entitlement to make sure that no family member is lost as it is a negative reflection on the whole family. Hence, the lines are sometimes blurred regarding appropriate contact.

As adults, I'm also convinced we can take care of our families and protect them from what we determine is unwanted contact, and intrusion.

My favourite reading as a child was the 'Great Brain' series, by something something Fitzgerald, I think. They were all about a Catholic/Mormon family growing up in Utah circa late 19th century.

The author wrote a book for adults I've always wanted to read but haven't found. It's called "Papa Married A Mormon", presumably about how his Catholic father got along with his Mormon wife while raising a family in Utah.


One thing that strikes me about your post is how Mormonculture had changed since we were young. Many have commented about how wards and stakes use to go to great and fun lengths to make being Mormon enjoyable for not only Mormons but invited non-Mormons as well. Sadly Mormon culture seems to have narrowed significantly and has grown increasingly doctrinaire. It seems Mormons have lost a lot of the common sense they use to share with the larger culture and have grown obsessive about the ever moving targets of church policy and doctrine.

Cheers, bona dea

Human

I got a used copy of "Papa Married a Mormon" at Sam Wellers in SLC. Good book although fictionalized. It could be available on Amazon.com

It changed, slowly over the years, and most of those fun activities and relationship builders were cancelled. No more progressive dinners, Ward Dinners, no more Roadshows, Dance Festivals, Blue and Gold dinner/dances, no more budgets for ....much of anything.

It's more about the minutia now! For instance, nobody fussed over multiple pierced ears in my time as an LDS woman raising children. As parents, we set the age that was appropriate, some of that had to do with the different cultures in the LDS Church - some at a few months, some at 14 or 16, some, not at all, for instance. I have two holes in one ear! HORRORS!!

We lived in a neighborhood with mostly non-LDS folks. We had one family that was LDS that grew up with our kids, but that was about it. There were others, but not many. We had birthday parties, for instance, with kids from all over the world. Kids played outside until dark, rode bikes all over the neighborhood, rode the bus with friends, and without a parent, etc.

I never heard of someone trying to baptize a child against the parent's wishes, for instance.

Sometimes, I think that the members we hear about today that are the most difficult are the more fanatical, letter of the law types that were probably always a little fundamentalist in nature. Usually, there was one or two families like that in a ward, but now days, I wonder if that is the majority of members in some cases and we see the results of that kind of attitude, which in my view, ignores even their own prophet's admonitions given in the Ensign and in Conference talks.

I left before correlation so I have nothing to compare it to.We had a f ew fanatics in my ward, but most of the members were pretty good people. It helped living in a town that had various churches. My town only had only 1300 people but had many religions and churches. During the time I lived there we had Mormons, Catholics, Baptists, Nazarenes, Methodists,Seventh Day Adventists,Jews and Buddhists

in a town that small, everybody's real.

maybe that impacted the way your mom & dad felt, and the way that you feel. Because you were raised in a place that everyone mattered, everyone was real.

did that make an impact? so there were 1300 people to choose from and live with so you selected some of all of them- baptist or mormon or catholic or, not- you could see what was real beautiful or wonderful or strong. weak, funny, fun

sounds like those were your people & you knew everyone. I'd like that. your parents were very fortunate to love each other in a place like that- they could be assured they chose the very best person to love that they knew!

remember when you said your mom respected your dad's choice not to have you baptised until you were 18 into either religion? and then to let you choose?

they were real to each other, their opinions mattered, they respected each other. It started that way. Maybe they found love and then found the place- with 1300 people to raise you in, or maybe they were raised in that place themselves. Their respect for each other started first where ever they raised you, that respect and love was in them at that time- they made it a priority to respect each other more than some outside religiousity.

My dad was raised there. My mother came from a nearby Mormon town. I knew other kids from mixed marriages and it worked for them too for the most part. I guess my point here is that there are many Mormons who still believe and who manage to be tolerant of others and their choices. Just trying to add a little perspective here since we hear so many horror stories. My maternal grandparents were raised in a completely Mormon town and were of pioneer stock, but they acepted my dad, didn't try to secretely undermine him or have us secretely baptized. Neither did anyone else.I doubt that they were delighted with my mon's choice, but they didn't interfere.

I do understand what you are trying to say, that the exaggerated stories of conversion hasn’t happened with you and happens only rarely. But those are the extremities of the situation. But the intent remains the same.

I think the exaggerated stories happen at times, but the point is that there are other experiences and other kinds of Mormons out there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2011 03:07AM by bona dea.

Hi Bona Dea

I wanted to weigh in here on your topic. I think the important part of your story is that your parents respected each other. Being the Catholic half of one of these interfaith relationships, I can certainly relate. It is very difficult to maintian such respect with two faiths that are so diametrically opposed as Catholics and Mormons. We're raising a child that has chosen the LDS path after many years. For me I sit and watch, and support the decision, but that is very hard to do. I attend services with my spouse to show my respect and support, but I also maintain my own relationship with my respective faith. It is a very difficult path to walk. But it is doable, it just takes patience and mutual respect. One thing that makes it difficult though is the LDS church's need to convert everyone.

For me there is this constant barrage of missionary efforts to "fix me." What that does is make it difficult to know which members are genuine friends, and which ones are just in it to collect my soul as a trophy. All the time the missionaries are just stopping by, or happen to accost me when least expected. At these times, I have found it best to just listen, and be firm in my beliefs, but respectful and polite. For me, I recognize that these young men are just doing what they believe is right. Still, it is frustrating at times to have what I believe to be true, constantly under attack. What makes it work though, is that I love my spouse, and I meant the vows I took when I took them. I also truly believe that God will sort things out in the end. That may just be a "Catholic" thing; I don't understand why LDS members can't see this.

I have many more experiences, and likey will have more over the years. Some time I'll share them.

Sincerely

Catholic Defender