Apparently, Oaks gave a conference talk that pretty much was only about the US Constitution, and it being sort of a holy writ, "divinely inspired," like so many Americans believe. How do believing non-Americans deal with stuff like this from LDS leaders, things that have no bearing on their country, or those who live in a country as free as (maybe even more free) America, with a well-functioning constitution that could be even superior than our "divinely inspired" writ? Looking for comments from anyone either from outside the US, or Americans who live and work outside the US.

The American-centric nature of Mormonism turned me off.Mostof you know that I am more than 40 years free of TSCC. The total disregard of our local culture,traditions ,sports and celebrations ensured that as kids we were alienated from our peers and community. Mormons were seen to be weird Americans and converts were tinged with that weirdness. And I grew up in a westernised country! Goodness knows what those from a radically different culture suffered.

Visiting GA's and expats ,especially those from Utah were condescending and patronising and pushing American culture and activities. None of them were particularly good exemplars of an allegedly superior people.

It seemed bizarre to me that America would be more favoured than Australia or New Zealand both of which were as - or more free than the USA.or more favoured than many countries with deeper and richer cultural history.

I think many Americans,including my Mormon vvAmerican relatives don' t appreciate the poor image that they project to the world.

One day I was in the bookstore of the Sydney temple. The US had just imposed tariffs on Australian wheat (this was during the first Bush years). The bookstore was offering Tabernacle Choir CDs. One of them was entitled "God Bless America".

All of my friends in Canberra pointed out how every Mormon in the church publications looked like they came from Sandy, Utah.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2021 01:50PM by slskipper.

I know my wife’s family who are British/British subjects didn’t appreciate the condescending, manipulative talks given by a certain U.S. American dentist turned mission president.

How are the mission presidents talks condescending?Does that mission president just claim America is superior to every other nation in everything?

Brazilians often say, jokingly, that God is Brazilian. (Because it is a beautiful country, with good weather most of the year, no earthquakes, no tornadoes, no deserts, no blizzards, etc.) Many other countries have similar ethnocentric reveries (China being the center of the universe, France being so culturally “exceptional”, etc.)

The problem is that, in the U.S., ethnocentrism is not perceived as a joke, juvenile boasting or daydreaming, but it has a long tradition as a political doctrine. And many religions have embraced it -- Mormonism being super serious about it. Merica is “special”, Merica is the promised land, Merica has a divinely inspired constitution, yada yada.

A few people in other countries buy that (and even go to great lengths to move to Merica), but most find it simply arrogant, delusional, and childish. (“My mom is prettier than yours”.)

The nonmembers usually told us we were an American cult, and the members hated getting their local needs ignored by the leadership in Salt Lake.

About 20 years ago a local patriarch in the Versailles area decided that the Salt Lake church was apostate and declared himself to be prophet. I have no idea how many members he took with him, but if I remember it was a fair number (100-200?).

Tyson

My experience in France was that Mormonism was perceived as a doomsday, polygamous American cult by most people. (Those who had heard of it, that is. It is hardly a blip on the radar.)

The handful of French people who did join were usually the tiny minority of the population who had a naive admiration for American culture: cowboys, country music, Hollywood etc. (Most French people look down on it.) So being in a church that is constantly spewing baloney about foreign constitutions did not bother them.

During my many years in France, most members in my branch were foreigners (lots of American expats) or people of recent foreign origin (mostly Africa, the West Indies and a handful of Latin-Americans and Tahitians). Very few French members. (And these few French ones were the rare Frenchies who idolized American culture: 0.01 of the population.)

Most of the branches outside the Ile de France had a few folks who doted on America or people with major problems in their lives on whom the missionaries had preyed in time of weakness.

I remember one woman telling us - out in one of the towns in the countryside - that she had been president of the local Donny Osmond fan club in the 1970s. And she wasn't even a member; she just liked having the missionaries come by. (Shades of Mrs. Robinson....)

Within the Ile de France, it was a lot more sub-Saharan African members who generally stayed only long enough to become disconcerted and leave again.

And of course, Versailles itself was American expat land.

Tyson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2021 11:12AM by Tyson Dunn.

I've only seen mormons once in my 38 years in France, and that was in Périgueux on a very hot day in the early nineties. I was carrying one small kid and reasoning with another only slightly larger one while gripping his hand to stop him running off when 2 mishies approached me. I was not amused in that annoying way we nevermos have ;-)

Now, with no small children to manage, I would probably just give them a meal ;-)

Knowing so many exmos has softened my obdurate atheistic heart ;-)

An exmo miracle, you might call it ;-)

Yes, but don't let us pull you too far over to the dark side.

What, you don't believe Inspires Apostles of "The One True Church" know the truth about "The One True Nation"?

I'll explain it to you right after I figure out how REDS went from being Commies to Republicans.

Years ago, I read an article in a church publication (Ensign I think; don't ask for a reference) about a UK stake president being told by a GA that his stake should be celebrating Pioneer Day. The English SP asked why they had to do that because, of course, Pioneer Day meant nothing to them. The GA's answer was essentially, "If it's important to us [Utah], then it's important to you. Do it anyway." The intended lesson, as far as I could gather, was that the SP repented of his resentment, humbled himself, and had the stake celebrate July 24 like a good mormon. But my takeaway was that the church's overbearing arrogance knows no bounds.

Even in St. Louis (1960s) we celebrated Pioneer Day in Primary. We gathered at the church with "covered wagons" made out of our little red wagons and walked around the church building. I'm sure the neighbors though we has lost our minds. Looking back I see it now as at least partly people trying to hang on to their Utah heritage.

I always thought it was weird celebrating the Invasion of Mexico (July 24) as a Utah holiday with all the American flag waving, but July 4th all but ignored, except for the stadium fireworks.

snagglepuss Wrote:
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> the Invasion of Mexico

Love it!

Mormonism is an American religion. It sold well when America was perceived to be this magical place where great things happened. Manifest destiny if you will. The Mormon church even did well after World War II where the image of Americans was quite positive.

Today America is perceived as a corrupt, warmongering has been. The sympathies of the 9/11 attacks were short lived after we invaded countries that had nothing to do with it and our meddling in the Middle East has been a huge disaster.

I think people appreciate the good things America has done but the magic is gone. There’s no longer a magical Zion in a magical country. Things are more global and secular now. Mormonism is a hard sell.

Follow the money. Most the tithing money comes from the United States. The US Constitution protects the church’s existence. It’s all about existing and making money. The church could not run in China or North Korea.