I just read Shannon's story on the fundraising thread. I didn't want to threadjack it with my story. Shannon, you are not alone. 3 years ago, My dad gave me part of my inheritance ahead of time. I did not want to tithe it. During the year, I'd paid what i'd considered a full tithe on my regular income. I saw no need for the church to have double what I normally paid. Well, come December and tithing settlement, the bishop asks the usual question, is this a full tithe. I meekly said no, its a partial tithe, knowing full well that I didn't pay on the inheritance. Not only did he want my TR on the spot, he wanted DW's recommend as well. I was like, "Wait a minute, DW paid a full tithing on her income, she's already told you as much." The bish then gave some BS about how tithing is a joint thing, that couples are in it together, blah, blah, blah. I made no mention of where the money came from. It didn't even occur to me at the time to mention that the money in question was my inheritance, and that legally, my wife had no claim to that money.(she has certainly enjoyed the fruits of the money since then anyway, I'm just saying legally) The bish just presumed that I had not tithed on all my income. So, in order to keep the peace in my already shaky marriage, I caved, and wrote a check for a few thousand dollars. Boy, that hurt. Its one thing to write a check for a few hundred every month, quite another for a few thousand.
The way I see it now, and the way I wish that I had seen it earlier, is that inheritance is not income. An inheritance is just that. An inheritance. Income is money earned through employment and investments.
Our ward has changed bishops recently, and he told my wife that her TR is based only on what she pays in tithing. He is fully aware of my feelings about the church, and he is fully aware that I have not paid a dime in tithing all year long. I've got a mind to tell him that that money that I paid in 2007 was from ill-gotten gains, like gambling or something, just to see if I could get a refund. In my mind, the money was an ill-gotten gain on the church's part, as the old bishop manipulated me into making an extra tithing payment.

Mistake 1: giving money to LDS, Inc.

What other church DEMANDS you pay them like they are the IRS? At least with the IRS you get to vote for Congress.

Every time a dollar moves from one hand to another the cult thinks it is due 10%?

If it can be a 'joint' thing then isn't it a joint thing between you and your dad and at the time it was an increase to him he probably gave the church mafia their protection money. If he buys you a $10 lunch do you owe $1 to the cult? Why would you owe anything if he just gives you $10?

I guess these are all questions you have to wrestle with up until the point you realize that the TSCC is a giant scam and in no way related to god. Then you can stop rationalizing. Then you won't care, won't pay, and won't lose any sleep over it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/30/2010 04:46PM by NoToJoe.

The fact is that no mormon should admit anything to a bish that he could use against them or that they don't want spread to every other member in the ward.

The church is fraud. Bishops often don't keep confidences and they have no fair standards for giving out rewards or punishments.

What happened to you was despicable.

Was your father a member? If so, didn't he already pay tithing on the money? If so, TSCC got double extortion.

They're better that the mafia and they don't have to break kneecaps or make cement shoes. What a racket!

...it wasn't his anymore, it was income for the son. That's how it works with tithes and taxes. Money is taxable/tithe-able whenever it changes hands.

I can't quite see Jesus of Nazareth subscribing to the methods, calculations, and theories behind IRS code. The only time in the bible I can remember Jesus getting angry was when he chased the money changers from the Temple.

So now Jesus deals with AMT, Inheritance Tax, AGI and other concepts invented by a money hungry government? Maybe Jesus should consider a VAT based Tithing system like the cult does in Europe. (wink, wink) The very fact that people in the cult even relate tithing calculation to tax calculation just shows the spirit in which they make their tithe.

perhaps a church should take that into account and realize what his wishes would have been which is likely that he wouldn't want his hard earned money going to a church he didn't choose to join.

Good point. But then they'll just dead-dunk him vicariously in the temple, and say, "NOW he owes tithing!"

I got an inheritance of about 11,000 after my parents house sold after she passed. I went ahead and paid a full tithe on it, even though mom and dad had always paid tithing on the income that paid for the house, and it wasn't really a profit.

I guess my reasoning was that if I did not pay it, then our house loan would not go through. I was sort of superstitious that way. Stupid, I know. It was the same when we applied for adoption. Of course we had to have TR, but even during the waiting I was really careful. I have never gone back though and paid, I would just try again.

Shit, I never had money then, and I still don't, so not paying tithing hasn't changed anything!!

into Social Security and into his own savings.

Then at retirement, they told him to tithe on the SS payments and whatever money he took out of savings to live on.

And when he died, the money that went to my TBM brothers got tithed again, and put into their savings, where they will tithe on what they take out and again on what they leave for their kids....

They could easily get 6 runs at the same money.

This is a sad and sorry story, dude . . .


And I am totally embarrassed to admit it . . . that tithing check was for 10% of my husband's inheritance from his never-mo dad. (Somebody just slap me now).

That poor man married a molly who thought she'd eventually convert him. Well he never joined the church. Wife (my husband's mom) ran off with the home teacher, so she could have a worthy priesthood holder take her to the Temple - and eventually the Celestial Kingdom.

FIL lost everything to the Mormon church - wife, kids (my husband is even sealed to his step-dad). He HATED the church.

Plus, FIL specified in his will that the money should go to our kids' college funds. Instead, I paid 10% of our inheritance to the church which that poor, dead man hated above all else.

I used to be afraid his spirit would come haunt me at night because he was so pissed (no lie).

Sigh. The stupid things we did when we were brainwashed.

;o)

You're not alone in silly tithing payments Shannon. When I made the decision to quit the church, I paid several hundred dollars in "back-tithing" that I felt I owed because I'd made that money while in the church.

The hold the church has on people is beyond abusive; it's always about control and the money....and NEVER your welfare.

If you challenge them, the will overtly attempt to destroy you, take your family and it wouldn't surprise me if jobs were lost for challenging the 'authority' of the church and its leaders.

Thankfully I don't live in Utah and my family is inactive; the local church has come to understand that they hold NO power over us and have given up.

I will admit that I'm more at peace and much happier without the Mormon church in my life and finances....

No apologies.

Amen.

Social Security is a form of insurance, just like state or personal disability, and unemployment benefits. Just because it comes from the government does not make it income. It is a insured benefits program that you and/or your employer pays the premium on.

Quick rule of thumb: If you pay a premium on after-tax dollars, then the benefits of that (policy or program) are not taxable.

If you pay a premium on before-tax dollars, then the benefits are taxable. Think IRA. If you paid tithing on on that amount that you put into an IRA or other investment program, then only the amount that is growth is to be tithed on, while the whole amount is taxable.

Understand this, just because something is taxable does not mean it is titheable. I have heard Bishops use that as a rule of thumb--they are INCORRECT!

Would you pay tithing on the insurance settlement check for a surgery or hospital stay, on damage to your house or car? No, of course not!

Any of you who are still in the church and on this site...stop and think.

Tithing is suppose to be on your gain, isn't that right. The death of a parent is a loss, and you inherit an estate...for all intents and purposes that is not a gain, because you lost something (a parent) which has more worth than any amount of money you received from their death.

Now the state/federal may tax you, but that is a "transfer of ownership" tax. Just because you get taxed, does not qualify money as a gain. An inheritance tax is not a capital gains tax, is not an income tax.

Now, think about this, those Mormons who own a business, do you think that they pay tithing on all the money that business takes in. The business gross vs the business net? No, of course not. They deduct any business expense, overhead, taxes etc. before they can know what their gain is. You should treat your income just like the income of a business. It is the same thing. How much do you spend for every dollar that you bring home? It takes money to make money! Gas, auto expense, travel expense, clothes that you bought for work, the extra expense of eating away from home. All of that and more is your business expense, your overhead. That part of your water bill, laundry detergents and electricity that you use to wash your working cloths should be pro-rated to be deducted from your net income before your calculate the 10%. You should pro-rate any expense necessary (what percentage of your mileage or fuel, upkeep, repairs and car payment qualifies as work related?)

If those who pay tithing really tithed only on their gain, then the church would not be raking in all that tax-free overpayment (to them) money that they get. Remember that you should be paying them with after-tax and after expenses dollars. If you want to tithe, make it a correct amount. It is 10% of your net income, after overhead and expenses.

When the Bishop asks if you have paid a full tithing...the answer is , "Yes." No argument, no discussion.

I would have seen the logic of most of this, even as a TBM.

My husband talked me out of tithing on social security, as I would pay on that when we retired. I felt a little guilty for nitpicking with the Lord, but it still made sense.

But the expense of holding down a job does reduce the actual money made. My husband wouldn't need a car if he didn't have to drive to work. We would save on payments, insurance, taxes, maintenance, gas. That car costs at least $450 a month when you throw in all of those expenses, PLUS repairs and maintenance (maybe an average of 50 a month). So a TBM would save about $50 a month on tithing if they factored that in. That's $600 a year in tithing.

I won a new car, the bishop told me I should pay tithing on the value of it. I ignored that bad piece of advice. I didn't have several thousand dollars sitting around to give the church, and I wasn't about to sell the car and give them 10th of the money.
I moved after that.

this year and not one penny went to the LDS church or any church. Most of my siblings are not active mormon--just one--the sister I don't speak to. I'm sure she tithed her inheritance. Her loss.

at least start doing it through direct donation to SLC and declare whatever you want to the bishop.

http://www.mormonthink.com/tithing.htm#advice

from an earlier post...Jeeze!

So Great Grandpa died and leaves mom $100,000

GGrandpas already tithed -$10,000
Grandpa leaves Mom the balance $100,000
Mom pays tithing -$10,000
Mom gifts $90,000 to only daughter
Daughter pays $9000 tithe -$9000
daughter give $81000 to married 4 kids
4 Married kids pay tithe $ 2020 each and give -$8080
great grandkids more $$$ to tithe on -$????

so $37080 + paid to the TSCC on gramps gift that he already paid tithing on the Gross.


Pretty Slick con if you ask me. The TSCC must have more money than God.
I would imagine this scenario is repeated more often than not
in the Morg.

what a creepy despicable church

And they claim all other churches are evil for taking money, but I don't know of any other church (that I've been to) that will punish you for not paying tithing.

Gotta pay your way into heaven.

Well, you get sealed in the temple you promise to give evrything to the church--EVERYTHING.

I always paid on net - KISS. Caeser got his and the lord got his. Not the same money. I had one bishop tell me to make a decision and stick with it and I did. I bet someone in SLC has thought about starting tithing audits, but even they realize that would be crazy.

Back in the 80s, when my grandmother died, I inherited a sizable trust fund, intended to pay for my college. I paid tithing on it, despite the fact that this grandmother had no use for Mormons and was quite upset when my mother and I joined the church. She made my mother give her word that she would never dead dunk her (my father's step-mom). My mom, to her credit, has kept her promise and has told my sister and I that since we know about the promise, we can't baptize her either. But my mom, to her discredit, told us to never tell our children so that some day they will notice that grandma never had her temple work done and will be able to do it with a clean conscience.

Since it was the remains of that inheritance that made it possible for me to be a SAHM, with only a part-time job while the kids were little, I felt I owed it to grandma to tell the kids not to baptize her. I can certainly honor, and teach my kids to honor, one of her last decisions since one of her other last decisions benefited us so enormously. I felt this way even as a practicing Mormon - now there is no question that I would never do her temple work.

But in spite of knowing all this, I didn't feel at all bad about giving a huge tithing donation to the church the year I got that money. It makes me sick now. I wish I'd donated it to some scholarship fund instead. My mom has talked about giving each of us kids a little inheritance ahead of time and DH asked me what I'd do if mom said we had to pay tithing on it. I told him I'm pretty sure that mom won't specify WHO she wants the tithing paid to and I'd happily give the 10 percent to World Vision, if paying tithing was part of the conditions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2012 12:12PM by CA girl.