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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 01:05PM

https://www.comicsands.com/gregory-smith-utah-seminary-muskets-2654798882.html

“A Republican politician in Utah has sparked outrage for suggesting in a tweet that people turn "muskets" on LGBTQ people trying to enter a Mormon youth seminary in the state.

In his since-deleted Twitter post, Gregory Smith, a failed candidate for the city council in North Ogden, referenced a speech delivered by an anti-LGBTQ Mormon Elder that many interpreted as a call for violence against LGBTQ people.

Smith's tweet included a screenshot of a Facebook post from Natalie Cline, a far-right anti-LGBTQ activist and an elected official in the Utah Department of Education. Cline's post showed a pro-LGBTQ image from a welcoming presentation at Layton High Seminary, a Mormon youth seminary in Layton, Utah that read, "If you are LGBTQIA+, welcome to seminary!"

Above the screenshot, Smith wrote:

"Time to get out our muskets."
It is believed Smith's tweet was a reference to a speech given earlier this week by Mormon Elder Jeffrey Holland at Brigham Young University. In it, Holland called for the use of muskets, a primitive firearm first invented in the 16th century and a symbol to many Americans of the American Revolution, to "[defend] marriage as the union of a man and woman."

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 01:41PM

I wonder if this is what Christ’s Apostle was talking about when he called for taking up arms to defend straight monogamy, in a CULT that still believes polygamy is the divine order of Heaven, if not on Earth, for now.

https://www.losangelesblade.com/2021/08/21/married-lesbian-couple-found-shot-to-death-near-moab-utah/

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 01:48PM

Orientation is a personal matter betweem adults.
Mine is hetero/straight.
Yours is what you choose it to be.
I don't care "SO LONG AS" you do not attempt to FORCIBLY INTERFERE with the rights of another human veing

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 01:54PM

I agree, but Holland and the rest of the gerontocracy occupying the penthouse of the COB, already have blood on their hands in terms of the suicide epidemic caused by their gay hate. Now they’re going to have even more blood on their hands when DezNutz start turning their muskets on gays.

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Posted by: oxymormon ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 01:25PM

Tell us when you consciously chose hetero/straight.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 02:07PM

Maybe I am wrong, but I think most young people not only tolerate but love and support most of the people in their cohort.

This call for violence reminds me of the fathers who use to get up during F/T and brag about how righteous their households were.

-They took pride in announcing that they cut or hid the tv cords. (Keeping the sabbath day holy)

-They proudly announced that they had kicked to the streets their wayward children who dared to stray from the teachings of the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2021 02:08PM by messygoop.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 02:16PM

Over 1/8 of BYU students identify as LGBTQ, and more of their peers support them every time one of these geriatric bigots makes their bigotry clear.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 05:53PM

Where did you get that from?

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 06:37PM

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where did you get that from?

https://universe.byu.edu/2021/03/11/recent-survey-finds-nearly-1000-byu-student-survey-respondents-identify-as-lgbtq/

Researchers interviewed 7,625 Zoobies and 996 said they were not heterosexual, that’s 13%, or, 1/8th of Student body.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 10:53AM

Wow. That took me down a rabbit hole to here.

https://www.usgabyu.com/single-post/history-of-usga

It made we wonder if BYU accepted USGA as a club how it would be any different than this club?

https://clubs.byu.edu/clubs#/byuic-1

Wouldn't they be afraid other religions would take away from their mission?

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 07:06PM

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/byu-cougars/2021/08/26/gordon-monson-jeffrey/

Monson calls out Holland’s gay hate in SLTrib opinion piece.

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Posted by: Humberto ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 07:56PM

I wonder if Holland put together this talk and thought it a coherent expression of support for LDS LBGTQ+ people. When both hate and love are expressed, you can be guaranteed that the "love" is just lip service.

"We love you, but..." is rarely an honest statement, I suspect.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 08:03PM

You mean like "Black people aren't cursed anymore but white people shouldn't marry them?"

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Posted by: Humberto ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 08:37PM

Yeah, or like "Love thy neighbor, but only until she turns down your invitation to meet with the missionaries."

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 09:41PM

Holland gets testy at anything the goes counter to his happy bubble. I would say a bubble full of unicorns and rainbows but the rainbows would trigger him.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 26, 2021 09:46PM

That's pretty funny. And probably accurate.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 01:45AM

I just finished watching a podcast on this very topic on mormon stories:

https://www.mormonstories.org/podcast/elder-holland-losing-control-over-mormon-lgbtq-support-at-byu/

It looks like a real war is brewing over this issue and Jeffrey Holland and the highest levels of the church are going to pay a price for being on the wrong side of this issue. A few years ago the BYU valedictorian of the graduating class came out as being gay as a part of his commencement speech. The speech, including the coming-out part had been turned in and approved by the correlation people prior to the commencement ceremony. Holland attacked him for what he said at the ceremony, even though it had been approved.

The administrators and professors don't want to discriminate against any of their students and even adjusted the honor code to allow gay couples to date and hold hands on campus until the General authorities made them change that back to the way it was a few weeks later. Jeffrey Holland and the other General Authorities appear willing to go down with the ship, rather than to relent and stop the discrimination. Most of us have at least one family member or friend who is LGBT. The church leaders (all the way up to the Q15) are even using military jargon to describe the battle and how the members should go to war in support of the discrimination. This podcast is worth watching.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2021 01:51AM by azsteve.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 10:54AM

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The church
> leaders (all the way up to the Q15) are even
> using military jargon to describe the battle and
> how the members should go to war in support of the
> discrimination. This podcast is worth watching.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzcfmjE2hqU

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 05:02AM

How much crazier can Holland get ?

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 05:41AM


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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 05:49AM

Jeff is starting to crack. This is not the same guy that ran BYU when I was there. The guy has huge bags under his eyes. When he was president of BYU he was happy. I think being in the Quorum of the Twelve has been hard on him. He never seemed very happy as an apostle. Jeff needs a break. I think his calling is going to send him to an early grave. He does deal with clinical depression and maybe some other stuff. Maybe he’s a closet gay. Maybe wearing a rainbow speedo in a gay parade would exercise the demons haunting him. Maybe he needs some couch time with Dr. Dehlin.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 05:41AM

There were quite a few gay people in my apartment complex at BYU. They weren’t waiving rainbow flags around but they weren’t hiding it either. Nobody cared. I would say a third of the students were from the east coast or California. For the most part we were just kids away from home having a good time. The church stuff was something we just kind of rolled our eyes about. Oh we have to take this religious class or go to this devotional. It was a good experience because I just saw there were more liberal Mormons like myself. The honor code was a bit of a joke. There were so many students they just didn’t enforce it very hard. We broke it constantly.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 11:12AM

As someone who was at BYU during the Electroshock, and the BYU security looking for BYU parking stickers at the gay bar parking lot IN SLC, and even the Y offering a class that gave credit for working as a decoy to trap the gay kids, I absolutely love knowing what you just wrote. One thing in the world that is getting continuously better. Because of people like you.

I had to go to the Standards office because I had been reported for my hair touching my collar. I had no idea why until I got there and was terrified they had found me out. Different BYU back then with Oaks running it. You can't imagine what we went through.

I will say though that there was a thrill to being so underground, haha.

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Posted by: Tyson Dunn ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 11:48AM

I got that stat from the bishop's nephew was also in the ward. He had heard it "in confidence" from his uncle.

Now, in fairness, we were all single students, and the ward was a bit different from others in its self-selection, but this was the late 1990s, so the idea that 1/8 of all students at BYU currently would now identify as "not strictly heterosexual" is not surprising to me.

The survey itself might of course also be biased by self-selection, but even so, 996 out of 31,000 would still be 3% of the student body and would be significant in itself.

Tyson

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 12:34PM

Do you think Holland read the report from 6mo ago that 39% of Republicans say political violence may be necessary to “Protect America”?

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/11/966498544/a-scary-survey-finding-4-in-10-republicans-say-political-violence-may-be-necessa

“The survey found that nearly three in 10 Americans, including 39% of Republicans, agreed that "if elected leaders will not protect America, the people must do it themselves, even if it requires violent actions."

I wonder what that percentage would be at BYU?

Now have an Apostle of Christ stand and deliver the message that they must take up arms to protect the church’s standards and what do you get?

Mathew Shepherd and this couple,

https://www.metroweekly.com/2021/08/lesbian-couple-shot-dead-in-utah-after-alerting-friends-to-creepy-guy-near-their-campsite/

The blood is on the hands of the prophets of doom.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 12:45PM

Of course. Glass-laden sacks of flour are more in keeping with Mormon tradition.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 03:45PM

Nice point. It's important to remember all the "mysterious ways" in which the Mormon Lord has worked.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 02:32PM

Jeffrey Holland is also the only GA that I know of that has admitted publicly (during a television interview), that the pre-1990 temple ceremony included oaths that involved acting out having your throat and body slashed open.

https://blog.mrm.org/2012/03/lds-apostle-discusses-pre-1990-mormon-temple-death-penalties/

At first Holland used some mis-direction by saying "we do not have Penalties in the temple" (at about 1:30 in the video). Then the reporter cornered him by saying "...but you used to", to which Holland admits the truth. The discussion was about showing how Mitt Romney had taken the throat-slashing oath. But this demonstrates how Holland reacts when asked damning questions about the church. He then tries some more mis-direction by saying that the gesture was only about the oath itself. That may be true. But the whole thing is just a mind fuck used to intimidate people with the strongest threats they can come up with that won't backfire too hard on the church. Google searches on Holland's name will return top results from August 23rd, saying that Holland loves the LGBT community. But then, Holland's double-speak includes the words "musket" and "war", with reference to the same community.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 02:57PM

Who do you believe, me or your lying eyes?
Jeff Holland or Jeff Ricks?

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 03:20PM

I noticed that most of the critical comments about Holland's recent speech have been tidied up (church newsroom and ybu speeches Y/T channels). Most of the negative has been removed and now duly sanitized for members' eyes.

What remains is a lot of praise for a so called hero for "having the courage to say what needs to be said."

If the church hadn't thrown me out, I definitely would have left by now. Truly a hateful and bigoted organization masquerading as a church.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 03:41PM

I was disfellowshipped for having sex with a girlfriend. They could have excommunicated me then and I wouldn't have resented being excommunicated. In fact, my plan at the time was to repent, even if they would have excommunicated me. I broke the rules. But the fallout that resulted from that same action was handled terribly by the church. They couldn't have messed things up any worse than they did. The masks all came off and I saw what the church is really about. And it's not about doing the right thing. I resigned from the church a few years later because the Bishops and Stake Presidents have no integrity and the church headquarters teaches them to be that way.

I can have much more personal integrity now as a non-member, and it wasn't because I wanted to sin. In a way, I still wish the church would be true. But it's obviously just all fraud. After that initial shelf breaks, you realize that not just some, but most of what you have believed your whole life is false. Most honest people find their way out of the church eventually. That first crack in the mold releases a flood gate of proof that as a church member, you lived a lie.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 04:41PM

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That first crack
> in the mold releases a flood gate of proof that as
> a church member, you lived a lie.

I like to think of it as living and illusion. Loss of something once held doesn't mean that your time was lost as well. If it were that would be like saying you regret childhood because now you are an adult and aren't like that anymore.

The church is a terrible and abusive organization selling a form of Jesus that is jealous and vengeful pretending to be all about love.

That is a huge lie but still people cling to that idea of love. It takes a lot to grow out of for many people.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 06:12PM

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The church is a terrible and abusive organization
> selling a form of Jesus that is jealous and
> vengeful pretending to be all about love.

Beautifully put.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 09:13PM

Yes.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 09:03PM

Yes, the time is not lost.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 06:19PM

ChurchCo is in a tailspin, they've never learned to go with the flow (and, they don't want to except in extremely limited applications/ environments)

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 06:23PM

Oh, the church goes with the flow all right--just 30 years too late for it to help its reputation.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 06:44PM

It’s ironic that a CULT that claims to be the sole representative of Jesus Christ on Earth, consistently comes down on the wrong side of every social issue, when Christ is the one who commanded us to love our fellow men as ourselves.

slaves - wrong side
Overturning miscegenation laws - wrong side
Civil rights - wrong side
Equal rights for women - wrong side
Equal rights for gays - wrong side
Women’s right to choose - wrong side
Alcohol - wrong side
Marijuana - wrong side
Child abuse - wrong side
Not causing suicide/depression/drug addiction epidemic by saying mean things about gays and abuse survivors - wrong side

Why is it the One church that claims to be the so-called ‘sole representative for Christ on Earth’ is consistently on the wrong side of every social issue, until they get dragged kicking and screaming over the empathy vs. cruelty line?
And violates Christ’s main commandment?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2021 08:42PM by schrodingerscat.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 07:41PM

What is the matter with these people?
They must have cranial assphasia
That is the disease where you can't tell you ass from your face



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2021 07:42PM by thedesertrat1.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: August 27, 2021 08:43PM

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the matter with these people?
> They must have cranial assphasia
> That is the disease where you can't tell you ass
> from your face


Haha, I gotta put that in my long term memory!

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Posted by: Space Pineapple ( )
Date: August 28, 2021 12:03AM

Yah, I saw it. Good Gawd, what an idiot. (I'm cis and straight, but my spouse is bisexual. And we have other LBGTQ folks in the family. Love them all.) Smith is an assface and on the wrong side of history. Which is, frankly, hardly surprising considering.

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Posted by: happy90 ( )
Date: August 28, 2021 01:18PM

Am I crazy or was his talk about muskets and war an indirect reference to a violent revolution? I’d love to hear what Mormon politicians have to say about this. Walk walk walk it back.

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Posted by: happy90 ( )
Date: August 28, 2021 01:25PM

Lmao Gregory Smith is so gay it’s not even funny.

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