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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 09:02AM

I was at a concert yesterday involving one of my wife's cousins and they played Flower of Scotland, reminding me that it was one of the tunes appropriated for LDS hymns, as I told the cousin in question, who thought it was hilarious and wanted to know more.

Unfortunately, I can't remember which LDS hymn it is. Does anyone here know?

Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2021 09:02AM by Soft Machine.

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 09:47AM

"Praise to the man" uses the same tune that "Scotland the Brave" does.

Google "Scotland the Brave on youtube, and you will see.

It is a popular tune for bagpipe players to pipe.

Since Utah's flower is the Sego Lilly that kept the pioneers from starving, I doubt that it is Scotland's signature flower.

More likely some kind of heather.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 10:11AM

Thanks. I appear to have got the reference wrong, then. Damn ;-)

And Scotland's flower is the thistle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2021 10:13AM by Soft Machine.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 10:55AM

Off topic, and, not that it matters, but I love thistles and we had the most beautiful ones in the foothills where I grew up. Also I'm a quarter Scottish. And, one of the highlights of my life was attending the Scottish Military Tattoo in Edinburgh in 1973. One of the most beautiful evenings of my life. Nothing like it.

Mormons should leave their songs along. Although, if I could copy one thing, it would be a Scottish accent. Just doesn't work with my Utah drawl, though.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 01:05PM

I had never seen them (I think at least--I mean I spent a lot of time on a farm out in Corinne) until I started walking my dogs in a big bunch of fields they were going to turn into a subdivision up by Blacksmith Fork Canyon here in Hyrum. I thought that was the ugliest weed I had ever seen and then they bloomed. I couldn't believe it. The flowers are beautiful. Now all that area is homes and a big park and the thistles aren't there, but I've seen them other places now.

I love the music of Praise to the Man. Too bad they stole it and used for a mormon hymn.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 07:52PM

I guy in my ward's F&T meeting reported how amazed he was that "Praise to the Man" was played at a Scottish funeral. God works in mysterious ways.

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 01:07PM

Well, at least the Mormons DID name one of their Utah towns "Thistle."

I think it is a charming name.

Rhymes with "whistle." And "missile."

I don't think it rhymes with anything else.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 03:27PM

I think it was satirist Tom Lehrer who wrote a song including the lines:

"Amidst the cactus and the thistles,
I watch the guided missiles
And the old FBI watches me."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2021 03:27PM by Soft Machine.

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 04:23PM

EVERYONE watches Tom Lehrer because he is so funny.

Love his Vatican Rag.

First you get down on your knees
Fiddle with your rosaries
Bow your head with deep respect
And then you genuflect, genuflect, genuflect.

Do whatever steps you want if
You have cleared it with the Pontiff
Ave Maria
Gee it's good to seeya
Doing the Vatican Rag.

Gotta love that Vatican rag.

What would be the Mormon equivalent?

The Temple Two Step?

The hallelUtah shoutout?

Singalong with the group formerly known as the Mormon Tabernacle Choir?

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Posted by: oldpobot ( )
Date: September 18, 2021 05:02AM

"Then the guy who's got religion'll
Tell you if your sin's original.
If it is, try playing it safer,
Drink the wine and chew the wafer,
2,4,6,8
Time to transubstantiate!"

(more from the Vatican Rag - fabulous lyric and nice piano chords)

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: September 18, 2021 03:40PM


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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: September 18, 2021 05:31PM

If your grain fields were infested with thistles you may modify your love for them. Just saying as a grouchy old farmer who's had his share of battles with thistles.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 18, 2021 06:09PM

Perspective is everything.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 08:38PM

I always wanted to learn to thistle but my lisp got in the way.

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: September 14, 2021 07:42AM

Let us all remember to Thistle while we work.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 14, 2021 06:14PM

I doff my bonnet in your honor, loislane!

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: September 14, 2021 06:31PM

OOOOOHHHH now I want a bonnet.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 14, 2021 06:34PM

:-)

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 12:05PM

Here is some irony for you:

The Mormon Hymn "Up Awake ye defenders of Zion" is set to the tune of "Columbia the Gem of the Ocean."

"Up awake" is NOT a patriotic song. Read the lyrics. In this song, America is the badguyenemy and Zion is the Mormongoodguys.

Zion is NOT America, Zion is the Kingdom of Deseret.

They have probably pulled that hymn by now, but who pays attention to the lyrics anyway?

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 12:34PM

It's not gone yet:

"Up, awake, ye defenders of Zion!

The foe’s at the door of your homes;

Let each heart be the heart of a lion,

Unyielding and proud as he roams.

Remember the trials of Missouri;

Forget not the courage of Nauvoo.

When the enemy host is before you,

Stand firm and be faithful and true.

Stand firm and be faithful and true,

Stand firm and be faithful and true;

When the enemy host is before you,

Stand firm and be faithful and true.

2.By His power is Zion surrounded;

Her warriors are noble and brave,

And their faith on Jehovah is founded,

Whose power is mighty to save.

In each soldier a brave heart is beating,

Tho our numbers, compared, may be few.

We’ll not rest till our foes are retreating,

And we’ll always be faithful and true.

And we’ll always be faithful and true,

And we’ll always be faithful and true;

We’ll not rest till our foes are retreating,

And we’ll always be faithful and true.

3.Tho, assisted by legions infernal,

The plundering foemen advance,

With a host from the regions eternal

We’ll scatter their troops at a glance.

Soon the kingdom will be independent;

In wonder the nations will view

Our Zion in glory resplendent;

Then let us be faithful and true.

Then let us be faithful and true,

Then let us be faithful and true;

Our Zion in glory resplendent;

Then let us be faithful and true.

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 12:59PM

Enemy hosts? Enemy hosts!!!

That shows how long I have been out.

In my day where your lyrics say "enemy hosts" we sang "god-hating foes." MUCH more graphic if you ask me.

"Enemy host" sounds like someone who has invited you over for dinner and then poisons your food.

"God-hating foes" is much more graphic.

Although, I have to admit that there are some days I hate the god I don't believe in.

"Is that really the best you can do?" I want to tell him (it's always a "him."

"I mean you're God, right? Why don't you act like it?"

There are probably other portions of this hymn where they changed the lyrics. I hate it when people do that.

Just another piece of the cancel culture.

I've got to get me a VERY old hymnal and see how the hymns are SUPPOSED to be sung.

You can't trust anyone these days.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 03:29PM

Blimey, that's really long for a hymn. Do they sing all of it every time?

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: September 14, 2021 06:54AM

It occurred to me that is not the only hymn where I know the lyrics have been changed.

The last line of "Praise to the Man" used to read "Millions shall know Brother Joseph again," meaning, I suppose, he was going to get resurrected SOON.

Now it reads, "Death cannot conquer the hero again," meaning whatever else happens, he won't die again.

I gotta get me an old hymnal and a new hymnal.

Lois

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Posted by: loislane ( )
Date: September 14, 2021 06:39PM

Come to think of it the NEXT TO THE LAST line of "Praise to the man" reads "Mingling with GODS he can plan for his brethren."

There you have it GODS not GOD. (although how are you going to expect him to mingle with justonegod?)

Proof positive that the Mormons are polytheistic, which if you ask me is a LOT more fun than having justonegod who is ALWAYS in a bad mood and doesn't want you to have any fun.

I will start a new thread on Theology through Hymnology.

But first I have to do a little research.

I found an old Mormon hymnal on Ebay for just ten bucks.

Can't wait to see what revelations await therein.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 01:14PM

I looked it up (can't find mention of it as an LDS tune) but look at this: A huge long essay on the anthem 'God Save the King' (UK) from a site called 'LDS Hymns' and it looks like it was one of their hymns? (#341). Strangely, the write-up doesn't mention LDS or America (unless I missed it - didn't read it in depth, just skimmed twice). Interesting though.

https://www.ldshymns.com/lds-hymns-326-341/341-god-save-the-king


PS: Flower of Scotland is one of my most favourite of melodies. I don't mind that Mormons don't seem to have appropriated it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2021 01:16PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 03:34PM

I agree, Nightingale, it's a lovely tune (which God save the (insert-gendered-monarch-here) is not, IMO). The Welsh anthem, Land Of My Fathers (sorry to any Welsh readers, I don't know the "real" name in Welsh ;-) is magnificent too.

I was very pleased to be wrong about the mormon connection.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 04:09PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kUnCwV3AYE


Here's an amazing rendition of the Welsh national anthem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wcuwDXFS5Y


'O Canada' pales...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2021 05:08PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 04:58PM

Myfanwy is a Welsh love song I could listen to for a thousand years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ysMlIZPoSU


Here’s another rendition by Ryan Davies who called it “the greatest love song that has ever been written”:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH3yqBW1AJ4

To get back on topic (!), Donny Osmond, Mormon, also performs it! Turns out he has Welsh roots. He sings some of it in English, first time I’ve ever understood the words.

From the web site: “Myfanwy is a song composed by Dr Joseph Parry from Merthyr Tydfil in 1875 and Donny Osmond’s family have been connected to Merthyr Tydfil since the 1500’s.His great great great grandfather on his late mother’s side was a surgeon in the Cyfarthfa Iron Works saving many lives.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B0V4JnBIEU

(But yeah, sounds better in Welsh, sung by Welsh voices).


Like Rhydian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPRzZmi7QbE

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 04:49PM

GStQ can be glorious and majestic. See the 2012 closing of Last Night of the Proms on YT. I think it could be kept as a UK anthem but think England should go with I Vow to Thee My Country or Jerusalem though this might be too religious in secular England. That said, to me the Welsh anthem is far superior to Scotland's. The Welsh are better singers, too..

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 01:23PM

Nothing as blood-stirring as the pipes. Here they are at Guinness Six Nations rugby:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcGAoADc94I

I've seen Princess Anne sing Flower of Scotland with a wry grin on her face. She's a great sport.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 09:23PM

    Pretty much my favorite hymn imported from, I think, either Scotland or Ireland...not sure...

This is for you, Tom in Paris, the 428th Arrondissement...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjhSqWl065o

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Posted by: Kentish ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 10:39PM

Much preferred the video center below your choice.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: September 14, 2021 03:54PM

Sorry, it took me some time to watch/listen to that one, because I have no sound on my work PC...

This is actually rather fun (though I don't understand the words) and not far away from (some of) my musical tastes. A genuine culltural experience, even. Do you know where it was filmed?

The arrangement is quite sophisticated, although the impressive lounging-about practised between musical interventions by part of the band rather detracts from their evident precision and skill ;-)

I hope the excellent rhythm section and the singer are on a better rate than the rest of them, because it's them doing most of the work.

Thank you, Mr. OldDog



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2021 03:55PM by Soft Machine.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 05:10PM

O Canadá...

(for our Canuck & Doukhobor friends)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2021 07:29PM by GNPE.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: September 17, 2021 09:15PM

The LDS hymn book is just full of plagiarisms and re-use of folk tunes that are considered valuable to some other cultures. "As Zion's Youth in Latter Days" is a re-use of "The Boys of Wexford," an important Irish ballad about the 1798 Irish Rebellion. JFK also loved it, because his people were from Wexford; they used the tune for the series "Profiles in Courage." I had to learn it in band under the name of the "John F. Kennedy March." Another weird one is the latest (1985) version of "If I Could Hie to Kolob," which is now set to the tune of the Irish ballad about a beautiful brown-haired colleen, the "Star of County Down." Then there are the less serious or even comical ones, like "Go Tell Aunt Rhody," "Columbia, Gem of the Ocean," "Scotland the Brave," and other worse, but comical ones. It's only important to me (i.e., infuriates me) because I play a lot of mostly Celtic folk tunes.

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Posted by: tilt ( )
Date: September 17, 2021 10:20PM

Borrowed tunes are rampant. The tune for the US national anthem is from "To Anacrion in Heaven" an English drinking song. Elvis used classical tunes for some of his songs. My friend will sing the lyrics to hymns she sang before she converted to being mormon instead of the mormon version (it really bothers her former bishop husband). And I love to sing "Amazing Grace" to other tunes (Gilligan's Island, Stairway to Heaven, a lot of college fight songs, and a whole lot more).

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: September 18, 2021 08:32PM

Didn't Thistle, Utah get buried in a landslide? I remember driving through or past it on our trips to Mt. Pleasant

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