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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 11:16AM

A family relation of mine is an executive at Intermountain Health Care. They posted an infographic on Instagram of how many people hospitalized in Utah haven't been vaccinated. Here is the infographic.

https://twitter.com/intermountain/status/1435709293878071302

And I'm shocked that with one prophet to rules them all why more people aren't vaccinated in Utah?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker/

I know several members of my extended family who aren't and I have no idea why not. Isn't this NOT following the prophet...he knows the way and is a doctor.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 12:17PM

Maybe they are just lazy in Utah.

"There seems to be a feeling that when you get married, that you will immediately become someone else.

Where today—if you spend your evenings playing video games—when you get married you will somehow immediately be more interested in reading scriptures and saying prayers together in the evening.

Where today—if you are too busy to start your day with prayer and Gospel study—you will be miraculously transformed into a Gospel scholar.

Where today—if you are “too busy” to attend Family Home Evening on Monday nights or to attend the temple regularly—you will suddenly become a convert to your covenants."
http://latterdaysaintmag.com/article-1-13655/

And there are so many kids there.

When they grow up to be 20 and get married then they will get vaccinated.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 01:01PM

My Mom attends a ward in the Golden State. She is elderly and worked in the health profession. She got her shots.

There are others who are nurses (one has been injecting people since the vax became available) and they REFUSE to be vaccinated.

My Mom thinks they are beyond stupid.

Currently, this is 2nd week in a row that their ward is back to Zoom. Why Zoom?

Because 3 out of 4 in the RS prez tested positive for COVID.

Prior to this, all the members of the bishopric sitting on the stand were wearing their masks. Very few were wearing face coverings in the pews.

My Mom has heard that the stake presidency is furious with her ward because so many are against vaccines and wearing face masks while being indoors.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 02:10PM

And one would have thought Mormons were such sheep.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 04:36PM

Oh, they are sheep. They just found a new shepherd.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 05:32PM

Ironically, my Mormons (wife and children) are considered "progressive" and yet they follow their prophet. The conservative Mormons cherry pick their prophet. Makes no sense. Maybe to Jeff Holland but won't to Joe "press destroyer" Smith.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 01:13PM

My "husband's" boyfriend tested negative and he was on the trip up to Park City with him. And even if they give you instructions to quarantine, his boyfriend has to go to work per his employer since he tested negative. And that made me think of the fact that you can go in every day and get tested and it could be positive today when it wasn't yesterday. How do we stop it all?

Well, I'm vaccinated, as is the husband, and he is getting monoclonal antibodies right now. I'm not very sick. I can work, etc. I'm hoping for the best. My niece and her husband up in Idaho have it. They are not vaccinated. She is allergic to something in the vaccine. He didn't want to. They aren't too sick, but she teaches school and was at work all last week and my sister teaches at that school, too. So no matter what we do, we're getting exposed.

So the vaccine to me was a no brainer.

My boyfriend's granddaughter was just born last week and that is scary to me. I can't imagine having a baby right now.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 07:56PM

My niece teaches at the same elementary school that her mom, my sister, teaches at. There are so many teachers out sick that school is canceled for the rest of the week. This is in Idaho somewhere around Wendell or Jerome. (I'm not sure where they teach now. They move around.)

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: September 15, 2021 11:45AM

Having a baby now is a lot like when woman was going to have a baby during the Zika virus scare. Women scared out of their minds that their baby would have shrunken heads.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 01:16PM

Maybe it is a way for them to rebel since they don't get to rebel against very many things. I can't believe how crazy it is here in the Logan area with the mixed soda drink places to go and the lines are long! And now the "not" coffee cafe in Provo or Utah Valley.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 01:51PM

The Not Coffee Cafe?

Great name for an eating place in a TV sitcom, or something. :)

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 01:27PM

It is the legacy of Cleon Skousen and ETB, who firmly set Mormonism in the Personal Freedom, Anti-Government camp. They say they are against Big Government. What they mean is any governmental regulation that affects them directly. IMO most of the apostles are in that camp. That's why Nelson's advice was so mealy-mouthed. The average TBM has been coasting along for decades conflating Mormonism with right-wing conservatism. So when nelson issued his recommendation, they were totally at a loss.

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Posted by: moehoward ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 01:42PM

"They say they are against Big Government."

Unless..
-They are State or Federal pensioners
-Want Social Security
-They need Federal Disability
-They need hospital care and they can't afford it.

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Posted by: BrightAqua ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 01:40PM

She and her husband live in the Idaho panhandle. Both made the "informed decision" not to be vaccinated and were proud of it.

Guess what!? They both got very sick with the Delta variant, requiring multiple trips to the ER. They are just now able to function a bit. They thank friends who brought in food and their medical insurance company...

At least they are now inquiring about side effects from the vaccination.

I have to admit that I am angry that they put their lives at risk as well as impacting hospital care for others. She also works retail, so who knows how many others were infected....

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 02:11PM

Well, I can't accuse them of not following their prophet.

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Posted by: mahu74 ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 05:16PM

A cup of coffee keeps you out of the temple. Refusing prophetic counsel to get vaccinated to protect yourself, your family, and your neighbors from potential suffering and/or death? No problem. Welcome to The House of the Lord. Straining at gnats and swallowing ivermectin.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 05:30PM

Most excellent comments.

I'm going to steal the gnats one.

And very good point about coffee. To members it's the Devil's brew but other substances classified as potentially medically harmful - go for it! Makes. No. Sense.

Maybe the next Sermon from the Mormon Mount should be titled: You are Not a Horse (as the MDs say).

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 05:34PM

mahu74 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Welcome to The House of the Lord.

They promise their "very" lives there yet are willing to die without a vaccine. Maybe if Nelson had mass blessings instead of counsel they would like him more?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 05:45PM

Recall how Moses warned the Israelites of the impending plagues and ordered them to paint sheep's blood on the lintels of their entrances. Some lacked the faith to do something so silly and paid with their lives.

Just like Moses, Nelson might have used his prophetic abilities to warn people of the impending plague and instructed them to wear masks to save their own and others' lives. But somewhere something went wrong. Either Russell has no prophetic insights or he was too embarrassed to tell Mormons to don silly little face coverings.

Prophets aren't what they used to be.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 05:48PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Prophets aren't what they used to be.

Modernity really drained "the blood" out of them.

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Posted by: Lurker 1 ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 07:34PM

I'm PIMO and my wife is TBM. Two of my kids are TBM along with their spouses and two of my kids are completely out. I was having a discussion with one of my TBM sons who is anti-vax. He just recovered from a bad case of Covid so he is more immune than anyone who has been vaxed and he is considering dropping out of the university if they mandate vaccines..

Me - Do you think God was aware that the worst pandemic in 104 years was about to hit the world
Son - I'm sure he was
Me - And do you think it is just a coincidence that the prophet, called of god, during this pandemic happens to be a world renowned physician
Son - Probably not
Me - So when God's prophet, who is absolutely qualified to look at the vaccine and give us council, asks us all to be vaccinated, why don't you listen?
Son - I'm tired of talking about vaccines

Interesting that so many people that wouldn't even consider putting a second earing in their ears, won't get vaccinated.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 07:50PM

things keep getting curiouser & curiouser in Morland...

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Posted by: mahu74 ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 09:18PM

Lurker 1 wrote:

>Son - I'm tired of talking about vaccines

I’m sure he is. Cognitive dissonance is exhausting

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: September 15, 2021 11:51AM

Nelson is probably too old to even understand the research papers anymore anyway. He was a surgeon so his knowledge about vaccine research and other stuff is going to be limited. His job was vascular, hearts, and keeping organs working.
Since he doesn't talk with the big guy or getting any data from him Nelson is just an old guy in a high position trying to lead a flock and all the input is from him. No God knowledge is be passed on.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 09:33PM

I am to the point of wondering if they should even be cared for should they get sick if they're taking an ICU bed would rob someone of a post surgery bed.
We have cancer and cardiovascular surgeries being canceled up here for lack of beds.

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Posted by: stillanon ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 10:01PM

You're exactly right. Article today about how a guy in Alabama died due to no ICU units in his State. Had to be flown to Meridian Mississippi for care, but it was too late. He died. I say, put the unvaxed at the back of the line and let people with heart attacks, strokes, car wrecks, etc. go to the front of the line. Make the stupid, selfish, unvaxed to fend for them self. Covid Hunger Games.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: September 13, 2021 10:12PM

And people are now dying because these selfish covidiots are not vaccinated and couldn’t give a shit about the body count, until it’s one of their own.

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Posted by: Lurker 1 ( )
Date: September 14, 2021 04:26PM

I am completely pro vaccination and was vaccinated the second day that I was eligible to get the vaccine. That being said, if people feel we should turn away unvaccinated people from hospitals and not treat them, how about we also set a body mass index number and if you are above that number we don't treat you. That was your choice after all. How about we don't treat any tobacco related illness, that was your choice. Lets not stop there. How about any diseases related to sexual promiscuity, that was your choice. I can't believe anyone would be seriously saying to not treat someone who is unvaccinated. I agree a person is a fool to not get vaccinated but we don't not treat fools.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: September 14, 2021 04:59PM

Lurker 1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> but we don't not treat fools.

Exactly.

I'm thinking about this today as I hear more and more news reports about surgery cancellations, hospital overloads and ICU bed shortages due to high numbers of COVID-19 patients.

I don't blame patients and families and all interested parties for asking what are we doing and why and how are treatment decisions being made, etc.

One of the issues is that a certain number of ICU beds have to be kept open to match potential need of some patients following surgery. So it's a capacity issue in that regard. Obviously, emergency requirements also have to be kept in mind.

Physicians have been saying for quite a while now that they dread the potential they see of having to start rationing care and especially choosing who gets a ventilator and/or other urgent care and who doesn't.

I heard this morning that even surgeries for brain cancer and other urgent medical conditions are being postponed because of capacity and staffing considerations. Too, ERs are backing up.

And this is in Canada where we thought we were doing quite well with our preventive measures, and we have, with the exception of a few areas and provinces where the governments haven't adopted all the same mandates as in other areas and/or the population is less in line with them.

So, yeah, the question hangs in the air, for some. Why does someone who may have prevented their illness (a COVID patient who didn't get vaccinated) get put ahead of someone else in need. And that raises the spectre of admitting to hospital COVID patients who *did* get vaccinated while turning away those who didn't. And maybe the vaccinated COVID patient who gets treatment dies anyway but the unvaccinated COVID patient dies when they may have lived if they were treated. Who wants to get into the middle of that nightmare?

There are all kinds of medical and legal issues involved not to mention ethical and moral minefields.

I don't think the answer is to let hordes of people who are ill with a potentially deadly contagious illness just lie in the streets outside medical facilities that won't admit them, or send them off to die at home, possibly infecting family members and/or caregivers there, because they are judged as unfit to receive medical treatment due to their vaccine status. Even if you don't care about that person what about all the issues and complications that arise if they are refused care?

Not least among all the considerations is that many amongst the medical staff would undoubtedly experience ill effects themselves from such a policy. Most do care about all their patients, no matter what condition they're in or what brought them to the place they're at. There are already multiple reports of trauma experienced by staff due to the stress and grief they're experiencing due to the ongoing crisis and its demands on them professionally and personally.

I feel impatient with some people too and understand the first impulse to turn away from them. I don't altogether know what the answer is. Personally, it's to avoid acting in anger. I feel for the medical personnel who have to wrestle with all the ethical considerations involved in the tough decisions they are undoubtedly going to have to make if the situation doesn't improve. I've heard some express their worst fear: that we'll end up having to go to a triage system because of the realities of urgent need overwhelming capacity (of space and staff).

The latter is one of the situations that the decision-makers have been trying to avoid with many of the measures they've employed so far. Too bad that so many people continue to ignore, or fail to comprehend the realities of our precarious position as we enter the Fall season. The capacity issues of space and staff have been mentioned from the beginning. Somehow, the message didn't get through to enough people and that isn't changing, it seems, to the detriment of many now and in the time to come.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2021 05:06PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: Anonymous Muser ( )
Date: September 14, 2021 05:20PM

The flaw in that line of reasoning is that you're drawing a false equivalence. High BMI and tobacco use aren't contagious, and STDs don't require intensive and lengthy hospital stays.

Hospitals don't get overwhelmed with the above kinds of illnesses, forcing them to potentially ration care. Medical staffs are not burned out from months on end of treating waves of people coming in from eating too many fries, smoking or bad one-night stands.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: September 14, 2021 07:49PM

Now hospitals have to treat all the swollen testicle patients too!

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 15, 2021 04:38PM

"High BMI and tobacco use aren't contagious"

But companies pushing high caloric, highly processed, easily digestible food that is highly addictive are free to fil hospital up all they want.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: September 15, 2021 12:18PM

Why aren't Utahns following the prophet on this? As a nevermo friend put it, "Redneckery is more powerful than religion."

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: September 15, 2021 04:36PM

Funny, but the ones I know aren't "rednecks." They have some visceral reaction to getting a vaccine and won't talk about why not. I have yet to broach the prophet angle because they don't give a reason anyway. Just say they don't want to and they don't want to talk about it.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: September 15, 2021 05:50PM

The vaccine wasn't bundled with a 3 scent set of doterra essential oil so Utahans pass. No deal.

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Posted by: schrodingerscat ( )
Date: September 15, 2021 07:21PM

MORmON AntiVaxers I know, like my X and her Nazi TBM Mom, refuse to get vaccinated because they think it’s taking away their personal ‘Freedom’. They don’t care about social responsibility nearly as much as their personal ‘Freedom’ which is why the virus is spreading like wildfire in American red spots, and waning in the rest of the world. Our entitled lazy asses are just getting more entitled and fat and lazy by the day.

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