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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 01:43PM

https://religionnews.com/2021/10/04/mormons-make-strides-in-discussing-mental-illness-is-it-enough/

From the article:
RNS) — Elder Erich Kopischke’s candid General Conference talk hit me in the gut this weekend. He spoke frankly about his family’s struggles with a son who returned home early from a mission because of mental health problems. The son thought seriously about suicide.

In the talk, Elder Kopischke gave assurances that many Latter-day Saints have longed to hear from the pulpit:

“Challenges often indicate a need for additional tools and support and are not a character defect.”

“Focusing on growth is healthier than obsessing about our shortcomings.”

“Open and honest discussions with one another will help this important topic to receive the attention it deserves.”

“We must love one another and be less judgmental — especially when our expectations are not immediately met.”
------------

And in recent years the church has, like the rest of society, begun to slowly remove the stigma it once attached to mental illness. Elder Jeffrey Holland and Sister Reyna Aburto have discussed depression in General Conference, and as a people we’re now exhuming the story of George Albert Smith’s yearslong treatment for serious mental and physical illness when he was an apostle a century ago. The church buried that story for years, making no mention of it whatsoever in its Teachings of the Presidents of the Church volume on him.
--------------

On the hindrance side, however, the church’s approach to the gospel often adds to my exhaustion. Elder Kopischke’s straightforward and loving General Conference talk is a balm to my soul, but it floats on a river of constant rhetoric about how human beings must “qualify” for exaltation, and how God’s ultimate approval is conditional based on what we do (or fail to do) in this life. Even in this same General Conference, we had a talk about how no unclean thing can dwell with God in heaven, a warning that people who don’t attend church risk losing blessings in this world and the next, and various reminders to improve ourselves.

If I’d never had a mentally ill loved one, I would probably never have questioned those ideas. (I’m a One on the Enneagram, for heaven’s sake: We love things like self-improvement and predictable if-then patterns of behavior and consequences!) But my encounters with mental illness have made me far less sanguine about the universality of one-size-fits-all standards.

The idea of qualifying for blessings works great — unless you’re mentally ill.
------------

The church has always put great stock in correct behavior, so much so that our evangelical friends have sometimes accused us of believing in “works righteousness.” That’s an oversimplification of what we believe about the interplay between faith and action, but it’s certainly true that we believe our choices have consequences, even eternal ones. But lately, it has felt to me like we are ramping up our focus on righteous behavior and certainly on the idea that God’s approval is conditional. The word “qualify” gets a lot of play these days in General Conference, as does the all-new buzzphrase “covenant path,” which was not mentioned a single time in Conference until the 21st century.

If we are serious about becoming more compassionate about mental illness, we need to do the painful work of examining our assumptions about personal righteousness. It’s vital to acknowledge not everyone gets all the tools they need to make the decisions we consider to be righteous and correct.
----------------



I of course did not hear Kopischke’s presentation, but it sounds like it brought up two important topics - dealing with mental illness with compassion and love, or even admitting the existence of mental illness, and openly admitting that General Authorities have serious family difficulties. That took some courage, in a church so focused on appearances and putting up a good front.

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Posted by: Maca not logged in ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 01:51PM

It's a good thing to discuss, and think about, we live in a time with many advantages, plenty of food, everyone seems to have a car and things to do, yet lots of teens and others are depressed, 300 years ago folks were lucky to get a day off and a balanced diet, yet there's so many sad people,

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 02:40PM

Maca not logged in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... we live in a time with many advantages, plenty of
> food, everyone seems to have a car and things to
> do...

> 300 years ago folks were lucky to get a day off
> and a balanced diet

I'm plugged into a conference about homelessness as we speak. Absolutely certainly it's not the case that everyone has plenty of food and a car and things to do. Certainly a balanced diet is out of reach for many.

It's hard to do anything if you have no money or not enough.

There are many societal reasons for the great divide between haves and have-nots which I don't need to go into.

But recognizing that there are countless folks on the down side is a start in perhaps somehow solving some of the issues or at least making life better for them.

And acknowledging that assigning fault or blame to them, as if we're better than they are without knowing their life circumstances or considering how fortunate we are in many cases through the lottery of life, is judgemental and unhelpful.

Many indeed suffer from mental illness, in a form and to an extent that most people will never experience. It's easy to look down on them as if it's all their fault and we're in our comfortable lives entirely through our own merits. Not true.

I'm glad to read that at Mormon conference one speaker who hopefully will be heard by many members brought up this important topic.

"Works righteousness" was mentioned in the article. Absolutely EVs consider that this is a basic of Mormon belief. The Mormon focus on striving to be perfect and "worthy" through one's own efforts is the reason for this. It leaves out or greatly diminishes the EV emphasis on the need for the sacrificial lamb (Jesus) because humans can never be good enough on their own merits.

I realize that either way for many it's not an appealing concept. Just saying that Mormons do emphasize "works" (or that's how it appears from the outside) which goes against the EV interpretation of the crux of the gospel which is that the whole reason we need Jesus is because we can't work our own way to Paradise.

I too am surprised this topic was brought up in this way at conference. Maybe it will be a start towards emphasizing helping people in need more than judging them - those in need of physical provisions as well as those who need assistance with their mental health. I hope so.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2021 02:42PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 02:02PM

At least they didn't teach the source of mental illness is demons or being evil. That's progress, I guess.

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 02:51PM

Amen. The best thing the church could do is to, over the pulpit in General Conference, tell the members (not the gullible media representatives) that Bruce McConkie's book should be disregarded as the ravings of a narcissist.

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 02:54PM

Mental illness at home, school or work = you should see a doctor and get the help you need.

Mental illness on a mission = you've failed, you're not worthy and you need to confess your sins and repent of your iniquities.

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 03:02PM

just like they've given lip service to gays. I have no doubt that it is still a stigma to take antidepressants like it was for my mother's generation and those in between now and then. I have a good friend who has always felt like she is less than because she had to take antidepressants, so she would quit taking them. I have found in recent years that I can never get in touch with her. She did contact me after I sent her some flowers, but then never followed through with going to lunch with me.

I ran into her daughter and she said her mother never gets out of bed and doesn't talk to anyone except this daughter. She only has one daughter and four sons. All her kids are very active mormon and all temple married. They are all very successful. She has a son who is a Navy Seal and he also has a law degree. One is a dentist. One is a school principal. I can't remember what the other son is at this moment. Her daughter is married to an Engineer and they do very well. But she hates herself as she can't beat depression.

My mother's generation refused to take meds even if they were available when my mom was still alive.

One of my "husband's" old boyfriends, who I am extremely good friends with, had a nephew who was suicidally depressed on his mission. He was in England. The MP wouldn't let him go home. His parents didn't want him to go home. They sent him to a psychiatrist and the psychiatrist was actually not a member of the church. He called his parents and said, "YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR SON COME HOME or he won't survive. He will commit suicide." He came home. They took him to the temple all the time after he got back. They had him with a therapist who had him doing some kind of therapy, but didn't have him on medication. He is at BYU and has been for a while, still hasn't graduated. He still struggles with his depression.

I tend to wonder how everyone treats this son of the speaker. Do they really truly accept his mental illness, or are they telling him he needs to be more righteous and fast and pray and blah, blah, blah.

The bishop told me I had PMS when I was dealing with my "boyfriend" being gay. Couldn't possibly be I was REALLY SUICIDAL over how they were handling him being gay and the insane answers they gave me. Had to be PMS.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 03:19PM

"The bishop told me I had PMS when I was dealing with my "boyfriend" being gay. Couldn't possibly be I was REALLY SUICIDAL over how they were handling him being gay and the insane answers they gave me. Had to be PMS."

As if he is qualified to make a medical diagnosis. Sheesh! Malpractice. Ill-advised. Ridiculous. Stupid. Unbelievable that people take on roles for which they are not the least bit qualified. Overreach their purview. And yet that's what the church expects.

It's awful to contemplate the immense harm that unqualified people have done, and still do, when they meddle in situations they're not equipped to handle.

There's a reason people pursue lengthy educations in fields such as Medicine and Psychiatry. So they will know how to skillfully and usefully counsel and treat people with symptoms that fall within the specialists' area of expertise.

It's completely outrageous for lay members without relevant education to be diagnosing others. Even with an MD prophet, it's not right for him either. The only person who should diagnose another is a treating physician caring for a specific patient.

Church leaders are wrong, wrong, wrong to expect such intrusions by bishops and members called to such positions should know their own limitations and stick to them. In my dreams, of course. As long as leaders and members think the Big-3 operate under inspiration from on high nothing will change. And the members suffer and some die. Neither situation necessarily has to happen but it goes on and on...

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Posted by: noone ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 06:45PM

I am a retired mental health nurse. The staff often had group discussions with patients about the importance of taking medications for mental health. Patients always talked about the stigma of taking medication when most people did not need these medications. They did not want to be perceived as "different".

Sadly, the public remains afraid of people with any kind of mental illness and there continues to be a stigma regarding taking these medications.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2021 06:46PM by noone.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: October 07, 2021 12:57AM

Whenever people talk about why the mentally ill don't take their meds, I get frustrated.

Sure--stigma and not wanting to acknowledge illness--got it.

Some other reasons:

a) Compliance is not 100% just like people who take blood pressure medicine or other medicine.

b) The medication might be super expensive even with insurance.

c) The medication might quit working.

d) The side effects can be unbearable.

e) The medication might fail to work at all.

f) None of the last eight medications were tolerable or effective.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: October 07, 2021 05:52AM

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The bishop told me I had PMS when I was dealing
> with my "boyfriend" being gay. Couldn't possibly
> be I was REALLY SUICIDAL over how they were
> handling him being gay and the insane answers they
> gave me. Had to be PMS.


According to them, it had to be YOU that was the problem, NOT them. How conveeeeeeennnnnnnient for LDS Inc.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: October 08, 2021 07:36AM

In North Korea, if you think for yourself or want freedom, you are the problem.

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: October 08, 2021 06:47AM

"just like they've given lip service to gays"

I'm not sure I like the image that conjures up. But yeah, they are a bunch of blowhards. Methinks Packer and Oaks and SWK doth protest too much.

Anyway. Ultra conservatives are triggered by "different". Same reason the Nazis sent gays to the death camps. Non-conformity disgusts them. They see it as a form of uncleanness that should be eradicated. Nevermind that gayness is no different from left-handedness. In some countries, they still beat left handed children to make them write right-handed.

How crazy is that? Bat shit crazy. Just like the church anti-gay crusaders who inexplicably float to the top like so many turds.

You are right, the mentally ill will always be seen as "other" by these men who live in their tight little boxes. They won't "get it" because they can't. Too bad, because those dogged by childhood trauma need their support the most. They need church leaders to understand and appreciate psychotherapy. After all, they are paying a lot of money to that church. What do they get back in terms of emotional healing?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2021 07:22AM by bradley.

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Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 03:16PM

The Mormon church creates mental illness.

When I was a 22 year old adult serving a mission, I was terrified of being alone in my apartment. I'd been taught to always be with my companion or evil spirits could work on me. I was alone for a few hours during a companion split and had to call the mission president because I was too afraid to be alone. I was sure evil spirits were surrounding me.

My exmo BFF had the same experience. After her mission, while a student at BYU, she also experienced anxiety when she was alone and had to take antidepressants. She had also been taught that Satan could work on her when she was alone.

My TBM BFF is sure that evil spirits are after her. She can feel the evil spirits. As a Mormon she's been taught her whole life about the presence of evil spirits. She's terrified of being alone.

The Mormon church keeps members in its grip by making them afraid: fear of evil forces out to get them and fear of being separated from loved ones for eternity.

It's quite laughable that the Mormon church talks about mental illness when they are the cause.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 04:08PM

heartbroken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's quite laughable that the Mormon church talks
> about mental illness when they are the cause.

Truth. At least a contributing cause. And it took a woman to get social services into the church.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 04:15PM

It only took them 100 years to have a relatively frank talk on mental illness at Gen Conference after a Mormon leader recognized the need for frankness with regards to people struggling with mental problems.

"Amy Lyman’s short internship at the Hull House gave her ideas regarding how significant social ills might be approached and hoped that they could be rectified in a measured, organized fashion. Her subsequent call to the Relief Society General Board facilitated the creation of a social services department within the Relief Society. In 1917, Utah governor Simon Bamberger asked Sister Lyman to attend the National Conference of Charities and Corrections as an official delegate to help Utah families displaced by World War I. At a follow-up six-week course in Denver, several Utah women receiving an intense institute, or seminar, laid the foundation for the development of social work in Utah. The instructors taught that “the principal values and methods of charity organizations were 1) rehabilitation through diagnosis and case treatment of families in need; 2) education of the public in correct principles of social welfare work and cooperation; and 3) gathering evidence through the first two principles and establishing volunteer networks to eliminate the causes of poverty and dependence.”"
https://rsc.byu.edu/salt-lake-city-place-which-god-prepared/historical-highlights-lds-family-services

But they have $100 billion for Jesus waiting to build him his throne on earth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2021 04:15PM by Elder Berry.

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: October 06, 2021 07:53PM

I am not too optimistic about them recognizing mental illness. When we were active in a very conservative area, the Bishop said in a meeting that all mental illness is caused by sin. I don't believe that perspective has changed for the majority of leaders. One GA talk only gives some degree of comfort to those afflicted. It does not create new policy.

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Posted by: Josephs Myth ( )
Date: October 07, 2021 03:27AM

Eric K Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not too optimistic about them recognizing
> mental illness. When we were active in a very
> conservative area, the Bishop said in a meeting
> that all mental illness is caused by sin. I don't
> believe that perspective has changed for the
> majority of leaders. One GA talk only gives some
> degree of comfort to those afflicted. It does not
> create new policy.

This might be the case, remembering how easy it was for the LDS leadership to walk the incredibly fine line of incorporating dark skin peoples into the congregation while at the same time housing some of the most racist scripture in the form of Doctrine that, may have been possible on this planet.

2017 J. McCabe on Autism coping skills learned
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JiwZQNYlGQI

(No mention of needing Mormonism)

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 07, 2021 03:55AM

. . . and McConkie said that psychotherapy was evil--he called it the church of the devil--because it shifted the focus away from the patient's sins and thereby precluded repentance.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: October 07, 2021 03:33AM

A few thoughts-

- which medication to effectively treat a MI patient is still pretty much a crapshoot, partly because of the wide variance of each individual's brain & body chemistry + a wide variety of different root causes. I have heard of some preliminary research on this challenge, but IDK if there's a final determination on this currently.

- the real meat of how ChurchCo interacts with members is at the local (ward, branch) level, often NOT consistent with GA talks; there's often a huge disconnect between the two!!

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Posted by: Josephs Myth ( )
Date: October 07, 2021 03:52AM

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A few thoughts-
>
> - which medication to effectively treat a MI
> patient is still pretty much a crapshoot, partly
> because of the wide variance of each individual's
> brain & body chemistry + a wide variety of
> different root causes. I have heard of some
> preliminary research on this challenge, but IDK if
> there's a final determination on this currently.
>
> - the real meat of how ChurchCo interacts with
> members is at the local (ward, branch) level,
> often NOT consistent with GA talks; there's often
> a huge disconnect between the two!!

..untrained bishopric, scraping the bottom of the charred barrel just to try and almost promote anybody into a substantial position quickly and without maybe any proper vetting!

Great salespeople though, MTC doesn’t slack in this regard.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: October 07, 2021 05:27PM

In about 1978 I had to give a lesson on health, specifically mental health, in a priesthood meeting of a military ward. The message was very clear--most diseases are the result of sins, something that Jebus alluded to in the New Testament. If there was a Jebus (and there wasn't), one could forgive him for being ignorant of disease, even if he was the son of Gawd (he wasn't). So the discussion was lively, with some speaking up, relating the death of a family member due to cancer (sin!, as it turns out), or a child who was hit by a car, etc. It made a lot of people angry--it made me angry, too, to think that my mother who died of cancer had died because she pissed of Gawd with some sin that required a slow and painful death by cancer.

Move forward on the discussion of mental health, and EVERYBODY was on board with it not being a pathological disease, but a result of sin. I tried to argue otherwise, but at that time I didn't know much about the medical issues resulting in mental illness. It should anger anyone, whether there is mental illness in their family or not, whenever someone indicates or opines that it is not a valid medical issue, still a rampant belief by millions of Americans.

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Posted by: Josephs Myth ( )
Date: October 08, 2021 10:21AM

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In about 1978 I had to give a lesson on health,
> specifically mental health, in a priesthood
> meeting of a military ward. The message was very
> clear--most diseases are the result of sins,
> something that Jebus alluded to in the New
> Testament. If there was a Jebus (and there
> wasn't), one could forgive him for being ignorant
> of disease, even if he was the son of Gawd (he
> wasn't). So the discussion was lively, with some
> speaking up, relating the death of a family member
> due to cancer (sin!, as it turns out), or a child
> who was hit by a car, etc. It made a lot of people
> angry--it made me angry, too, to think that my
> mother who died of cancer had died because she
> pissed of Gawd with some sin that required a slow
> and painful death by cancer.
>
> Move forward on the discussion of mental health,
> and EVERYBODY was on board with it not being a
> pathological disease, but a result of sin. I tried
> to argue otherwise, but at that time I didn't know
> much about the medical issues resulting in mental
> illness. It should anger anyone, whether there is
> mental illness in their family or not, whenever
> someone indicates or opines that it is not a valid
> medical issue, still a rampant belief by millions
> of Americans.

Is there anything more incapacitating than maybe quite often what Mormonism can accomplish with your brain? Then, perhaps there are the hang-on's and leftover remnants after you've hopefully escaped!

Lately I've noticed what an exclusive acceptance into the LDS group might accomplish. I remember giving it up and it seemed like almost losing the quirky character "Rose", that 50's dressed over-the-deck handrail girlfriend stalker Charlie Harper can't seem to rid on the hilariously (Two And A Half Men) funny TV show.

Leroy Parnell sings it well, I had To Let It Go..

IguessI'llSaveItForMyNextLife

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: October 08, 2021 11:56AM

Mormonism is a DIY lobotomy.

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Posted by: valkyriequeen ( )
Date: October 08, 2021 11:28AM

Jeffrey R. Holland said: "The Church is more like a hospital...provided for those who are ill and want to get well, where one can get an infusion of spiritual nutrition."

No thanks! I was lucky enough to escape from "the hospital", and never will I return.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: October 08, 2021 04:29PM

Who wants to live in a hospital?

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Posted by: Josephs Myth ( )
Date: October 09, 2021 05:53PM

OneFlewOverTheCuckoosNest

https://youtu.be/RGRD6JBnHrU

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