I hope people read the article. The heading of the OP may give the wrong impression - that ivermectin is actually a miracle drug.

Spoiler: It isn't - not for Covid anyway - that has been proven at this time. It's vital to note that it can result in significant harm if not taken on a physician's orders to treat a condition for which the drug has been established as effective.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 04:10PM by Nightingale.

Sorry, yeah, I just cut and pasted that article headline, I know Ivermectin doesn't treat Covid, or prevent it. It's great for worms or lice, but not on virus, any of them.
The problem is that the people who think there's hope in Ivermectin, because this Dr. or that show host says it worked for them, don't get vaccinated. Then they get sick 98% of the time, they're the one demographic that dies of Covid.
So I say, let them.
At this point. You can't force them to take the vaccine.
But you can make vaccines manditory to travel on a road or plane or a boat, interact with a police officer or enter any public place without a vaccine. Make every business mandate it.
I know people say, "It's a slippery slope!
So wear spikes if you have to.

From the article:

"The BBC can reveal that more than a third of 26 major trials of the drug for use on Covid have serious errors or signs of potential fraud. None of the rest show convincing evidence of ivermectin's effectiveness.

"Dr Kyle Sheldrick, one of the group investigating the studies, said they had not found "a single clinical trial" claiming to show that ivermectin prevented Covid deaths that did not contain "either obvious signs of fabrication or errors so critical they invalidate the study".

"Major problems included:

"The same patient data being used multiple times for supposedly different people

"Evidence that selection of patients for test groups was not random

"Numbers unlikely to occur naturally

"Percentages calculated incorrectly

"Local health bodies unaware of the studies


"The scientists in the group - Dr Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz, Dr James Heathers, Dr Nick Brown and Dr Sheldrick - each have a track record of exposing dodgy science. They've been working together remotely on an informal and voluntary basis during the pandemic."


The article gives examples of major issues with how studies were conducted in various countries to the point that supposed findings were invalidated due to poor technique (whether by human error or on purpose to skew results for some ulterior motive). It illustrates well the standard accepted scientific techniques and the variables or errors that skew or invalidate results. For example, one of the studies that apparently showed very positive response by Covid patients to ivermectin was proven to have selected out patients to receive the ivermectin who would likely have a more positive outcome than others. For instance, those with much higher oxygen saturation levels to start with were chosen to receive the drug; those with lower O2 levels, who were more likely to have lower survival rates in the first place, were not given the drug. The higher survival rate of the first group does not indicate that the drug was responsible for their survival because (1) multiple factors have to be considered - not just that they received a certain drug; and (2) in blind studies such as drug trials should be, patients should be chosen randomly to obtain more accurate information re whatever is being studied. In other words, it's not honest or accurate to select healthier patients in order to skew results to confirm a preconceived or wished-for outcome (such as to "prove" that a certain drug is effective for treating whichever condition is the target).


OK, so I'm biased - I can't resist including this excerpt that is positive about Canada which in this case did it right:


"The largest and highest quality ivermectin study published so far is the Together trial at the McMaster University in Canada. It found no benefit for the drug when it comes to Covid."


You sure have to avoid that "dodgy science" described in this article.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 04:41PM by Nightingale.

I type for the rehab facilities in Las Vegas. I just typed up ANOTHER COVID patient in her 90s who was just moved to the rehab facility from the acute hospital and she is on IVERMECTIN. I typed it maybe 2-3 days ago. I've typed it many times for Vegas.

I GUESS IT MUST WORK as that is what they treated her with and she is still alive in her 90s.

Selection bias. If a person in her 90s dies from COVID, your rehab facility never sees her.

It's entirely possible that the patient insisted on ivermectin and the medical team just gave the patient a low dose rather than argue about it. Or the doctor may have been a True Believer in ivermectin. This is Utah, after all.

Or that it was prescribed for her for a non-COVID-related condition. We'd have to have more info to know what is up with it.

I don't know of any MDs prescribing it for COVID patients, unless they're going off-label or something. Too, we don't always know everything that is going on.

It also created a conspiracy where vaxxed covid patients are given ivermectin and the unvaxxed are left to die. Maybe nurses also stomp kittens. Who knows?

The deniers I know are determined Ivermectin is their one and only savior and no amount of juried scientific research will convince them different. Stupid is pervasive in their lives.
They are finding out today that to board a plane or train in Canada you will need to be fully vaccinated...and they regularly fly to see their children in BC. That'll piss 'em off royally.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 05:37PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

This issue is near and not so dear to me.
This is what really made me lose respect for Bill Maher and Joe Rogan, among others. They cozied up to the self described ‘intellectual’ behind the self described, ‘Intellectual Dark Web’ that went around promoting wild Wuhan Lab Leak (conspiracy) theories going around and the Ivermectin advocates.
What seems like is going on here is there is a whole contingent, 1/3 of the US that are anti Vaxers.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker

And that’s where the Covid has killed the most people. Which, I don’t have a big problem with. They are just self selecting themselves out of the gene pool so hopefully America won’t be as dumb as them once all 35% of these dinosaurs go extinct.

Darwin’s Revenge



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 06:29PM by schrodingerscat.

Whoa--El Gato has lost respect for Bill Maher and Joe Rogan.

Now that *is* news!

I never had a hell of a lot of respect for them. They’re pot smoking liberal heathens. One is a well educated Hollywood elitist and the other is a self described ‘fucking Moron’, who has taken way too many shots to the old noggin.
But they do both manage to have the two most honest (and popular) conversations on Cable and YouTube, with really smart people, with very diverse opinions.
I like hearing both sides. And I like civil conversations between intelligent people about touchy subjects, done in a humorous way. They both do that better than anybody else I can thnk of except maybe Jon Stewart or John Oliver.
They have civil conversations between people on opposite sides of the issues, debates, interviews, that are valuable and I find informative, at times, but usually funny and interesting, and pro science, up until recently,
When they both gave air time to Brett Weinstein, who is a quack promoting Ivermectin on his Podcast, Joe Rogan and Real Time. Before that he was selling the Wuhan Lab Leak conspiracy theory. With zero evidence and
now all these bogus studies on Ivermectin.

We all fell for it.

Almost everybody saw the media freak out on Joe Rogan about Ivermectin and it turned out to be Ivermictin worked against Covid.

Turns out they were fabricated. The studies were false. They were made up.

Who do we have to thank for that? Science?

No. Science discovered the fraud.

Who benefits from perpetuating false Ivermectin studies?

I don’t know anymore, who to believe.

But turns out the experts were right all along,

Ivermectin is proven to be not effective at treating or preventing viruses, of any kind, not just Covid.

Parasites and worms? sure, but in Dr prescribed doses, not horse doses.
Seems like the CDC shouldn’t have to say that, but then again, they have to counteract Faux News.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/07/2021 11:25PM by schrodingerscat.

Sure.

False science ? How about NO science !

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> False science ? How about NO science !

False Science = Fraud

Someone here should inform the NIH that their Table 2e. needs updating:

Table 2e. Characteristics of Antiviral Agents That Are Approved or Under Evaluation for the Treatment of COVID-19 Last Updated: July 08, 2021

Ivermectin recommended dose for adults:

“The dose most commonly used in clinical trials is IVM 0.2–0.6 mg/kg PO given as a single dose or as a once-daily dose for up to 5 days.”

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/tables/table-2e/

Doesn’t the NIH know that people aren’t horses? My goodness… And c’mon, what was the Nobel Committee thinking in 2015:

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2015/campbell/lecture/

(Come to think of it, who doesn’t get their Houyhnhnms and Yahoos mixed-up?)

1. Re Use of ivermectin in the treatment of COVID-19 (bottom line – not yet recommended):

CBC Sept 2, 2021:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ivermectin-covid-19-alberta-pandemic-1.6159985

“Early studies exploring its effectiveness as an anti-viral medication that could be used to treat COVID-19 have been used to fuel misinformation — despite being deemed low-quality and robustly debunked by federal health agencies.

"The body of evidence that we now have … is that it is not effective in the context of COVID — either for preventing or for treating. The evidence simply does not support it," Tim Caulfield, a professor and the Canada Research Chair in health law and policy at the University of Alberta, said.

“Ivermectin is safe for human use when prescribed and dosed by a health-care professional to treat parasitic infections. (NB: COVID-19 is caused by a VIRUS, not a PARASITE).

“The veterinary version of ivermectin, especially at high doses, can be dangerous for humans, Health Canada says.

“It may cause serious health problems such as vomiting, diarrhea, low blood pressure, allergic reactions, dizziness, seizures, coma and even death.

“Ivermectin is used to treat parasites. COVID-19 is caused by a virus.

“Some early studies appeared to show promise for its use as an anti-viral as well as an anti-parasitic — with hope that further study could prove it inhibits the growth of the novel coronavirus in human cells and improve patient outcomes.

“Those results have not panned out in larger, higher quality studies, which have yet to prove whether ivermectin can slow or stop the novel coronavirus from growing in human cells.”


2. Re Nobel Prize for ivermectin:

From the article: “The form of the drug used on humans won the Nobel Prize, has improved the health of millions and helped to eradicate diseases like river blindness in multiple countries.”

NB: The Nobel Prize was awarded for development of ivermectin for the treatment of river blindness and other diseases caused by parasites. Note the year of the award: 2015. Years before the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19 appeared on the scene.

Bottom Line: The Nobel Prize was not awarded for use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19. Simply because this application has to date not been recommended. In fact, the exact opposite – all experts are currently specifically stating that ivermectin should NOT be used to treat CV.

Very misleading information, and potentially catastrophic, to say otherwise on either count.

From Human's post:

“The dose most commonly used in clinical trials is IVM 0.2–0.6 mg/kg PO given as a single dose or as a once-daily dose for up to 5 days.”

Please Note: The most crucially important words from your own quote: 'clinical trials'.

The experts firmly state, and caution, that this information pertains *only* to use in clinical trials, under strict supervision. It is decidedly *not* a prescription intended for wide use at this time.

That's the thing with clinical trials - the information derived from them informs consensus as to recommended treatment. Rushing ahead on the basis of preliminary findings is malpractice at best.

This is just such very basic science. I'm not understanding the difficulty some people display with regard to comprehending simple facts.

---

Should the studies bear out and ivermectin is shown to be effective in the treatment of COVID-19, fabulous. Nobody's saying they don't want to find an effective medication that can help end this pandemic. But we have to stick to the tried and true methodology that has informed science to date. That doesn't include rushing ahead and causing illness or death out of misunderstanding or carelessness or desperation or stupidity. Nor from spreading false ideas, causing confusion and contention.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2021 01:53PM by Nightingale.

There's at least one drug that's being tested by actual scientists to treat Covid symptoms, but it's not ivermectin or any other anti-parasite drug.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/merck-says-deal-signed-with-singapore-covid-19-antiviral-pill-2021-10-06/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2021 09:04PM by adoylelb.

adoylelb Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's at least one drug that's being tested by
> actual scientists to treat Covid symptoms, but
> it's not ivermectin or any other anti-parasite
> drug.
>
> https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharma
> ceuticals/merck-says-deal-signed-with-singapore-co
> vid-19-antiviral-pill-2021-10-06/


Sounds hopeful.
I hope it works!

got the details wrong. It wasn't in UTAH. I posted it was in the Vegas area of Nevada. These patients came from hospitals such as UMC, MountainView, St. Rose Siena System (several hospitals), Henderson Hospital, Desert Springs Hospital. All are Vegas area institutions.

I said it was FOR COVID. I didn't say it was used, but not say what it was for. Sure, I said 90. I type ivermectin for patients from 60s through 90s at least once a week. I do overflow work, so there are in-facility transcriptionists who type most of the work, so if I'm getting patients who are on ivermectin, then imagine how many people are getting it if I only do the OVERFLOW work.

You'd all be surprised if I told you what my infusion was of monoclonal antibodies and what they have been used for up until this point. I was rather surprised when I saw the infusion bag they hung and infused in me. Unlike what others had told me, I was sicker after I got the infusion than at any other time I had COVID, but it all depends on the person. My husband did much better the next day. I had shaking chills and fevers like I couldn't believe. I was SO SICK. I slept for a few days. I assume I could have been much sicker if I hadn't gotten it. Since I don't want everyone to jump all over me about monoclonal antibodies, go look them up. See what they have been used for for YEARS.

If you are going to reply to my posts, at least have the decency to read them. That was one of my shortest posts and still those who replied didn't read it for MEANING. Just saw ivermectin, and that was it. I'd post a few reports that I've typed so you can see what I'm talking about, BUT THAT IS AGAINST THE LAW.