Two married and "worthy" heterosexuals, who are current in their tithe-paying, desiring to create a physical tabernacle for one of Heavenly Father’s spirit children, first pray together to bring the proper attitude of reverence to the marriage bed.

Foreplay ensues as needed, and then the Church-approved missionary position is assumed. The necessary motions are undertaken while both parties try very, very hard not to enjoy the resulting orgasms.

Any pleasure which may have inadvertently occurred, is mitigated by the guilt and shame which follow.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2011 11:12AM by WiserWomanNow.

and only the male has an organism as women don't have a little factory--and him having an organism is the only one required to reproduce.

WiserWomanNow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t

Excuse me, but are we allowed to use the word 'point' in such a delicate debate?

Do Mormons know about the clitoris?

I was majoring in psychology at BYU- My second semster, I took Abnormal Psychology and there were a few weeks devoted to sexual dysfunctions.
One day, there was an open dialogue about sexuality and one of my classmates confessed to us that his wife had NO IDEA what a clitoris was or that she even had one. He had to teach her about her own body. That same time, another classmate confessed that he watched one of those sexual instructional videos and "Even though he felt he had to repent, it was good for him to know how to please his future wife."

I think it's criminal and abusive to not teach children about their own bodies.

Being a TBM, she probably wouldn't be able to find it without a weed-whacker. OH!

Incorrect? Yes? Wrong? Probably?

Criminal and abusive? Jesus Christ.

derrida Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do Mormons know about the clitoris?

Probably not, as generally they do not have time for gardening.

I sure think foreplay is allowed!! Foreplay and sex go hand in hand. God gave us desires to be expressed in marriage. Why would God make man and women so attracted to each other if we were only supposed to look and not touch. Honestly, how do you even have sex without foreplay? Sex without arousal would be painful. Foreplay and sex in marriage is such a beautiful, pure, natural and holy thing! It was intended to be!

Little background- I am LDS and was married in the temple. My husband served a mission and we both grew up in the church.

What happens in the bedroom is so personal and private. It is between the husband, wife and God only. No general authorities in that mix. Sex was meant to be enjoyed. Why else would God give every women a clitoris? It serves no other purpose than to provide pleasure. God did not make a mistake in creating women now, did he?

The church does say no oral sex, porn or lewd language. The church also says to avoid anything unnatural, unpure or unholy. Yet other than the no oral or porn it is not specified. It is left up to each married couple to decide for themselves.

Many members(and even bishops) do think oral sex is okay. Bishops and Stake Presidents never ask if you have oral sex. They ask if you live the law of chastity. Once you are married, that law is having sexual relations only with your spouse.

We each can decide for ourselves what to do in the bedroom. There is no church handbook on sex for married couples. The scriptures do not specify what is okay or not okay on the marriage bed.

The phrase to avoid anything unnatural, unholy or unpure had good intentions. I think the point was to evaluate our personal sex lives. Generally devote christians do not want to offend the Lord. But, I do not think that phrase should have been said at all. I think it would have been better to say let the spirit guide you or something like that. That phrase the church used can cause unnecessary guilt and worry. That phrase has also casued anger.

~~~~~~

Here are some things from the church website supporting sex in marriage. Daresay even enjoying it : )
“Tenderness and respect—never selfishness—must be the guiding principles in the intimate relationship between husband and wife. Each partner must be considerate and sensitive to the other’s needs and desires..”
- The Prophet Howard W. Hunter, “Being a Righteous Husband and Father,” Ensign, Nov. 1994, page 50

He mentions needs and desires.

"Couples will discover differences in the needs or desires each partner has for such a relationship, but when each strives to satisfy the needs of the other, these differences need not present a serious problem. Remember, this intimate relationship between husband and wife was established to bring joy to them. An effort to reach this righteous objective will enable married couples to use their complementary natures to bring joy to this union."

"..Both husbands and wives have physical, emotional, psychological, and spiritual needs associated with this sacred act."

"..Sexual powers are voluntary and controllable; the heart and mind do rule. While sex drive is a myth, husbands and wives do have physical and emotional needs that are fulfilled through sexual union. If they perceive and appreciate their masculine and feminine natures as important, complementing, but not controlling, parts of their lives, becoming as one flesh can be one of life’s richest and most rewarding experiences."

This is from "Chapter 6: Mature Intimacy: Courtship and Marriage," A Parent’s Guide, (1985) via LDS.org

Hmm...physical, emotional, psychological, and spiritual needs associated with this sacred act. PHYSICAL NEEDS let me repeat.

“The natural desire for men and women to be together is from God. But such an association is bounded by His laws. Those things properly reserved for marriage, when taken within the bonds of marriage, are right and pleasing before God and fulfill the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth.” (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988], p. 279

A natural desire for men and women to be together...

"The sexual senses of the body are to be enjoyed in righteousness, and its sexual functions to be used to create and nurture life. All this must be within the sanctity of a loving marriage."

"Chapter 5: Teaching Adolescents: from Twelve to Eighteen Years," A Parent’s Guide, (1985)

Sexual senses of the body are to be ENJOYED in righteousness.

Physical needs fulfilled through sexual union! Wow!

This is a handbook of church doctrine via lds.org

Which is not allowed.

If the church really wanted people to enjoy it, the church would stay out of it. What a married couple does is completely their business. Is it too much to ask that the church treat its followers like adults and not 'council' them on their sexuality, especially when such council is unsolicited?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 10:30PM by moroniandcheese.

What rubbish. Foreplay is so much more than oral sex. Oral sex is but one possible fact of foreplay. It is entirely possible to engage in foreplay without engaging in oral sex.

The fact the the Mormon Church is a load of hooey hardly entitles you to go off and stay stupid things like this in order to make it seem even worse. Jesus Christ.

I will point out that I never claimed that forplay is only oral sex or that it even must include it, but in my experience, the term has often been used to to refer to oral sex when 'blow job' or 'cunnilingus' are too crude to say in a given public place. I would argue that when many people hear the word 'forplay' that oral sex will be one of the first things to come to mind.

That or mutual masturbation. I would imagine that many Mormon would consider that verboten given TSCC's stance on masturbation in general.

If foreplay is something else, maybe slightly more adventurous, involving toys or porno, well I'm sure that falls in the category of 'impure and unholy'.

So, unless you are the rare individual who relies on extended makeout sessions or tantric meditation for forplay, what else is there?

How am I making the church look worse? There is a reason why so many people in this thread were wondering if foreplay was allowed at all.

"...sex drive is a myth..."

Really?

What goes on in a bedroom between a consenting man and a woman is nobody's business, even god's (and especially those ignorant GAs who pretend to speak for a god).

So I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I would point out you are quoting from church books to say what kind of sex the church says it's OK to have . . . which kind of proves the point of thread :-)

"What happens in the bedroom is so personal and private. It is between the husband, wife and God only."

No, it's actually between the partners. Any god shouldn't even enter into it.

+1 What a disturbing idea to believe that god has any place in your sex life. When I hear that, the only word that comes to mind is: cult.

I like to pretend that Ronald McDonald is in my room when I'm having sex with my wife. Whispering in my ear, coaching me, video taping me, just generally being very creepy. See how disturbing that is?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 11:45PM by AtheistMarine.

How absolutely denigrating to the ancient Eastern cultures who have long believed in the divine nature of sexual relations.

How completely ethnocentric and narrow-minded.

But what if that's how god gets his jollies by watching with his all-seeing eye when he's not multiplying and replenishing spirit children for worlds without number?

This god fellow should seek help for his sexual addiction--it's all he talks about, thinks about, and does. It makes me wonder if the milky way was some sort of accident. haha.

According to Mrs Truthseeker, women are not allowed to move or make sounds during the "act".

Just so you know, this isn't typical Mormon practice. Your wife is even more fucked-up than most.

I specically remember my brother (and why oh why did he volunteer this info?)....anyway, I remember hearing my brother talk about how he & his wife prayed right before sex for a healthy child, blah, blah, blah.....

WTF?

Makes sense to me. A lot depends on which one of the billions of sperms gets into the egg first. A lot is decided in those first few moments. If my dad had hiccupped, I might have been blonde.

most of all, unlike the movies, NO:

-lighting up a smoke afterwards

-surprise appearance of a cheated spouse (or children)

-man Doesn't ask woman:"Did you get to O?" or "Was that good for You?"... followed up by-with a close-up to broad smile on womans face, Snuggling/Cuddling close, saying:
"Ummmmmmmm..Couldn't you tell?"

or

"IT SURE WAS For Me!"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2011 12:07PM by guynoirprivateeye.

It just discourages the oral sex that makes orgasms possible for many women.

Exactly! It's why they say masturbation is a sin, and that even prolonged foreplay is discouraged as women might experience pleasure from it.

Just something that happens without your input. Another discriminatory rule for women. We spend years of our youth feeling sinful for causing ourselves any pleasure and can't wait to get married so it will just happen during baby making activities and we won't be sinning cause we didn't cause it to happen. Oops, bait and switch. Now we're married and it doesn't just happen. Still requires some sinning. What to do? Guilt, guilt, more guilt, years of guilt. Stupid cult. Finally, see the light. No more guilt. Epiphany. Pleasure is good. Enduring the years of church-approved mormon sex with pot-bellied Peter P. makes post-mo sex oh so much nicer. I've heard.

Really? Prolonged foreplay is discouraged? I was a TBM for almost 30 years, and I NEVER heard this from ANYONE at church.

Is this in the Handbook of Instructions? Do you have a source for this belief, or are you just talking out of your ass?

OMG...do these people know nothing?
Thank god jake went to medical school and played around..do did I..better marriage.

stormy

Don't all morg-sanctioned activities end with refreshements?

Now I'm envisioning the couple having Morg-approved sex, with a side table of Jell-o salad and funeral potatoes waiting in the corner for afters.

Not here, you're not allowed to eat. OH!

If sex wasn't supposed to be any fun, then why did God make it that way? Do Mormons ever ask themselves that?

"A moment of carnal congress between a husband and wife, whilst still clad in their temple garments."

Please note we use the term moment as more than a moment spent in carnal congress would be a cardinal sin.

matt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "A moment of carnal congress between a husband and
> wife, whilst still clad in their temple
> garments."
>

Well, if you're both wearing those nylon garments if may be only a moment and a trip to the emergency room. Those damn things are slippery. Pffssst. Right off the celestial helpmeet, off the bed, and into the wall.

Once upon a time I was observing a BYU counseling session while a student. In therapy was a young mormon couple with young children whose marriage was in crisis. Apparently (after several years of marriage) one night the couple was shagging and the woman had an orgasm. They both were so traumatized that they both immediately prayed together that it would never happen again. But of course it kept happening and the couple was ready to break up over it!

The layers of tragic misinformation and ignorance on display made my brain hurt.

Asking forgiveness for actually experiencing pleasure during sex between two lawfully and spiritually wed partners?

How incredibly sad and just, well, warped.

When I think of how many people, especially women, never experience anything but disgust or at least annoyance while having sex, it makes me cringe.

I think the church fills people with an incredible amount of shame and guilt towards anything sexual throughout childhood and adolescence, then tells them to be fruitful and multiply right after marriage. How can people possibly enjoy sex with all the indoctrination that it is dirty and filthy and that one should'nt even think about it?

It's amazing these folks even figure out the anatomy and work up the drive to accomplish intercourse, much less anything near pleasure.

Really. Well, what a remarkable event to witness.

Tell us, please, what happened next? Was there a resolution to their problem? In which building did you witness this counseling session?

I'm glad they don't teach these things any more to young people in the church. It must have been horrible for you older folk.

At BYU we would get "chastity talks" twice a year in church, and these are the types of things I would get from the different bishops:

Question: What's the church's policy on lingerie?
Bishop's Answer: When I go fishing, I wear my fishing clothes.

Bishop: Men are like gas stoves, women are like electric stoves.

I never heard anything about oral sex, and the only time I ever heard about putting garments back on afterwards was in a joking setting. I always heard that once you're married there are no more rules, but if something feels wrong, you probably shouldn't do it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2011 10:32PM by kimball.

I don't know why, but this thread is making me horny.

Couples married in a Mormon temple are told to “refrain from every unholy and impure practice.” While the ceremony doesn’t specify what those unholy and impure practices might be, in January 1982 the church president at the time issued a letter stating, "The First Presidency has interpreted oral sex as constituting an unnatural, impure, or unholy practice. If a person is engaged in a practice which troubles him enough to ask about it, he should discontinue it." Eventually, the letter was withdrawn, apparently due to complaints by local leaders that the instruction was too explicit and intrusive.

However, the prohibition against “unholy and impure practices” remains, with oral sex implicitly continuing to be one of them. Gordon B. Hinckley said, "Married persons should understand that if in their marital relations they are guilty of unnatural, impure, or unholy practices, they should not enter the temple unless and until they repent and discontinue any such practices. Husbands and wives who are aware of these requirements can determine by themselves their standing before the Lord."

I was unfortunate enough to run afoul of this Mormon purity rule when I was a newly married husband. As a convert, I wasn’t raised Mormon and was unaware of the prohibition and inhibitions of Mormon sex. (Not that it would have helped much had I been raised Mormon, as there seems to be very little frank talk about sex in Mormonism, anyway.) Naturally, I was excited about sex with my wife. I hadn’t had sex before becoming a Mormon. I admit this was due to my being quite shy and anxious rather than my great moral rectitude; in fact, I felt relieved Mormonism provided me with a comforting rationale for my fear of sex. Still, I was looking forward to trying some things out and one of those things was oral sex.

It was after this experimentation the condemning letter from Salt Lake City was issued. My wife and I, duly embarrassed and ashamed, made an appointment with our bishop and confessed our sinfulness. The bishop, an elderly and kind man, to his credit seemed as uncomfortable and embarrassed to have to deal with this issue as we were. Rather than lecture or condemn us, he gave us a light penance and told us to try not to do it again. In spite of the bishop’s kindness, the effect of the experience on me was to curtail my joy of sex, raise my anxiety, and to create a wedge between my wife and me on the issue of whether or not anything I wanted to do beyond missionary-vanilla was “church approved.” For several years I had a recurring nightmare of being watched by church leaders while I had sex and being chided for it. The Mormon marital bed gets crowded when you start including God, his prophets, and the bishop!

It wasn’t until some time after I left Mormonism I started to become relaxed about sex and started to figure out what I like and don’t. My sexual ethics these days are straightforward and not overly-complicated (although I think some people would characterize my standards as “low”): Sex is consensual for all parties and none of the activities result in medical or psychiatric intervention.

It was added to the TR questions which were printed on the inside of the TR booklet of form blanks.

The oral sex letter created a shit storm of trouble for my brother and probably was church-wide as healthy couples all of a sudden (like you) found out they had a "problem" that they had to fess up to.

My bish bro eventually ran out of recommend blanks and when the new booklet of forms came the oral sex question was gone with NO explanation! IOW they made a huge deal out of announcing it only to have it evaporate into the ether. I think they learned the hard way on that one, but of course couldn't acknowledge it in anyway since to do so would undermine their myth that Gawd was some how running things.

After watching over every other part of life and haveing stsrict rules for it how can the church really back out of this part of life?

I'm getting divorced. I haven't had sex since I don't know when because my divorce is not final yet. This was like church approved porno for me. Time for a cold shower.