Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
At General Conference members were told to seek revelation for their personal life. I have no problem with that. In fact I seek revelation for my life all the time. Here's the problem. The Church asks you to seek revelation using gospel principles, follow gospel principles, make sure your living gospel principles and your revelation must be in accordance with gospel principles and what the top brethren are speaking about in real time. Not dead leaders.
If revelation is the true promptings of God, how did God and Jesus get so many things wrong with the direction of His Church and Kingdom? If true revelation comes from God then it should mean that each revelation builds on the truth of the past revelation. Looking at Church history this does not seem to be the case. New prophets change things from past prophets teachings.
Case in point, the temple stuff. In my dad's time in mortality, the temple stuff was a lot longer and had a lot more stuff in it. They use to have a lecture at the end of the endowment that I liked. They they started to cut stuff out of it. The marriage ceremony or sealing I had in 1967 is worded differently today. The wording has been changed.
Remember the days when you had to show your recommend and the person at the desk had the power of discernment to know if you were worthy or not to enter. Lots of stories in late 50's and 60's of people not getting in the temple because this person had the power of discernement and they would take yoo aside and find out they are not quite worthy to enter. Read yesterday where you now scan your recommend as you enter and person at desk just looks to make sure you scanned it properly.
Back to personal revelation. So if I went to my Bishop and said I have prayed and recieved revelation that the wearing on my garments is harmful to my mental health could I get a temple recommend? After all I have received revelation from God.And I was told at conference to do that. How could they disagree?
What about this guy Denver Snuffer who says he has seen Jesus, etc. Is he wrong? I do not know him but he says he recieves revelation. Who is to say he does not?
With all the changes at Church, etc it seems on one hand older members are saying it is great that the Church is run by revelation. But I sense confusion. New members really know very little about Church history so it does not bother them.Anyone with critical thinking skills can see the following:
1. They keep moving the ball so no one notices what is really going on.
2. Spend the money on temples so no one notices what is really going on in the corporate aspects of the Church
3. Rely on the local Bishops and SP to carry the weight of the Church rather than have the top leaders be responsible and give answers.
4. Do not address the CES changes and questions church members have
5. Change term God's Prophet to the World to Global faith Leader
One last observation. Notice when the Come Follow me program came in. Everyone was "Wow this is truly a revealed program." Did you hear anything about it this past conference? No!! Why and this is my opinion. As people study the Come Follow Me this year on the D&C they must be scrtaching their heads and going, "why have we not recieved anymore revelation or clarification for this second or that section? Why are the heavens closed?" Or if the are like me and I did some critical thinking and research and found most of the material was watered down. Doing a little digging into the history of each chapter, it seemed to be one man's ideas and not really revelations from God. Maybe a some level LDS members are beginning to wonder about revelation and JS and the Church. So you do not hear much about Come Folow me.
Truly the church has a long ways to go with revelation. With the water shortage in Utah, do the members really know how much water is going into the concrete to renew temple sguare. It's an insane amount. The prophet should have known the lake was drying up and the rivers from the mountains are not supplying the valley with enough water. The project should never have begun until the water shortage was corrected. Same with all new temples in Utah. Save the water. Concrete needs water!! And I am not a revelator!! Just an aware person.
If revelation is the true promptings of God, how did God and Jesus get so many things wrong with the direction of His Church and Kingdom? If true revelation comes from God then it should mean that each revelation builds on the truth of the past revelation. Looking at Church history this does not seem to be the case. New prophets change things from past prophets teachings.
Case in point, the temple stuff. In my dad's time in mortality, the temple stuff was a lot longer and had a lot more stuff in it. They use to have a lecture at the end of the endowment that I liked. They they started to cut stuff out of it. The marriage ceremony or sealing I had in 1967 is worded differently today. The wording has been changed.
Remember the days when you had to show your recommend and the person at the desk had the power of discernment to know if you were worthy or not to enter. Lots of stories in late 50's and 60's of people not getting in the temple because this person had the power of discernement and they would take yoo aside and find out they are not quite worthy to enter. Read yesterday where you now scan your recommend as you enter and person at desk just looks to make sure you scanned it properly.
Back to personal revelation. So if I went to my Bishop and said I have prayed and recieved revelation that the wearing on my garments is harmful to my mental health could I get a temple recommend? After all I have received revelation from God.And I was told at conference to do that. How could they disagree?
What about this guy Denver Snuffer who says he has seen Jesus, etc. Is he wrong? I do not know him but he says he recieves revelation. Who is to say he does not?
With all the changes at Church, etc it seems on one hand older members are saying it is great that the Church is run by revelation. But I sense confusion. New members really know very little about Church history so it does not bother them.Anyone with critical thinking skills can see the following:
1. They keep moving the ball so no one notices what is really going on.
2. Spend the money on temples so no one notices what is really going on in the corporate aspects of the Church
3. Rely on the local Bishops and SP to carry the weight of the Church rather than have the top leaders be responsible and give answers.
4. Do not address the CES changes and questions church members have
5. Change term God's Prophet to the World to Global faith Leader
One last observation. Notice when the Come Follow me program came in. Everyone was "Wow this is truly a revealed program." Did you hear anything about it this past conference? No!! Why and this is my opinion. As people study the Come Follow Me this year on the D&C they must be scrtaching their heads and going, "why have we not recieved anymore revelation or clarification for this second or that section? Why are the heavens closed?" Or if the are like me and I did some critical thinking and research and found most of the material was watered down. Doing a little digging into the history of each chapter, it seemed to be one man's ideas and not really revelations from God. Maybe a some level LDS members are beginning to wonder about revelation and JS and the Church. So you do not hear much about Come Folow me.
Truly the church has a long ways to go with revelation. With the water shortage in Utah, do the members really know how much water is going into the concrete to renew temple sguare. It's an insane amount. The prophet should have known the lake was drying up and the rivers from the mountains are not supplying the valley with enough water. The project should never have begun until the water shortage was corrected. Same with all new temples in Utah. Save the water. Concrete needs water!! And I am not a revelator!! Just an aware person.
I've heard of a guy whose personal revelation conflicted with church leaders. It was a cautionary tale because he was automatically wrong. But of course church leaders aren't any better at predicting the future than a guy at the horse track.
The church twists everything to fit their aristocratic view of the world. Obedience means to them, not to God. They are God's apparently clueless mouthpiece, but they want you to keep pouring your money down their rat hole.
The church twists everything to fit their aristocratic view of the world. Obedience means to them, not to God. They are God's apparently clueless mouthpiece, but they want you to keep pouring your money down their rat hole.
Great post from you whom I assumed was one of the disaffected. Enjoyed reading it but...
"Who is to say he does not?"
I say he is not.
It is like Joe Smith setup the pattern to be repeated by his followers in leading even "the very elect" astray.
Suspect the pattern if you don't want to suspect the intentions of the "prophet."
"Who is to say he does not?"
I say he is not.
It is like Joe Smith setup the pattern to be repeated by his followers in leading even "the very elect" astray.
Suspect the pattern if you don't want to suspect the intentions of the "prophet."
There is NO WAY to receive direct, personal revelation AND still follow TSCC, which twists and perverts that so-called revelation for its own gain.
If the church was not built up to get gain, why does it have so much money?
SEcular Priest Wrote:
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> If revelation is the true promptings of God, how
> did God and Jesus get so many things wrong with
> the direction of His Church and Kingdom?
Evidently God/Jesus/Holy Ghost have the power to give confusing revelations but not the power to say, "No, Joseph, you misunderstood. This part of what you wrote down is wrong. Correct it to this before you publish it, because we don't want people believing incorrect things for the next hundred years or more." Nah, instead they must think, "Ain't no big deal. We'll fix it someday. Or in the afterlife. Or something."
-------------------------------------------------------
> If revelation is the true promptings of God, how
> did God and Jesus get so many things wrong with
> the direction of His Church and Kingdom?
Evidently God/Jesus/Holy Ghost have the power to give confusing revelations but not the power to say, "No, Joseph, you misunderstood. This part of what you wrote down is wrong. Correct it to this before you publish it, because we don't want people believing incorrect things for the next hundred years or more." Nah, instead they must think, "Ain't no big deal. We'll fix it someday. Or in the afterlife. Or something."
I had several people tell me their revelation for my situation back in 1983. One of my friends told me that he knew I was so confused and depressed about it, that he told God that I needed him and I did need him. I just needed something different than what they were all dishing out. My revelations (intuition) I was getting were not what they were telling me. I had to get them out of my life to figure it out for myself.
They were dead wrong in so many aspects of our lives, OF MY LIFE. If I had just listened to my own mind. I've said my dad told me that he knew I was too intelligent to marry someone gay and he just couldn't figure out why I would. He tried for years to get me to tell him why and I finally told him what the leaders did. He was FURIOUS.
My dad then started telling me where he saw them as being wrong in other areas like Mark Hoffman, etc. He wasn't your typical mormon, my dad wasn't. Once he knew I was done--his most devout mormon child--then he felt he could tell me what he saw wrong.
I just wish Rusty would move on to his GREAT REWARD!!!
They were dead wrong in so many aspects of our lives, OF MY LIFE. If I had just listened to my own mind. I've said my dad told me that he knew I was too intelligent to marry someone gay and he just couldn't figure out why I would. He tried for years to get me to tell him why and I finally told him what the leaders did. He was FURIOUS.
My dad then started telling me where he saw them as being wrong in other areas like Mark Hoffman, etc. He wasn't your typical mormon, my dad wasn't. Once he knew I was done--his most devout mormon child--then he felt he could tell me what he saw wrong.
I just wish Rusty would move on to his GREAT REWARD!!!