Though I'm leaving up my original post, I've decided to delete my responses to this thread, because I feel that Alex's post down-thread has clicked with more people than what I was saying.

Tyson



Original post:
> I've been working at home since before the pandemic, but I have to admit the quiet days are really starting to annoy me. My husband's at work. My coworkers are all online, and we're all busy. We never had a "water cooler" work culture anyway, but it was at least an option when I had an office to go to.

> And even outside work hours, people don't call anymore. We have to initiate calls to our friends, otherwise we don't hear from anyone. My husband reached out recently by e-mail and suggested to a few of them that we might get together over the holidays when we're in our old town again. And though they're amenable, I can't help but think - why are we bothering? It's not like we're keeping contact the rest of the year.

> I can distract myself with noise (television, music, videos), but it's not the same as having people to actually talk to.

> Tyson



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2021 12:04PM by Tyson Dunn.

try booze OPie ~

The vast majority of human beings are social creatures who need to feel the comforting press afforded by the pressures of The Herd.

. . . It is what it is.

How many of you would visit an RfM chatroom at a specific time on specific dates, knowing that the opportunity for beneficial interaction also opened up the possibility for malicious skulduggery?

When is the Risk v. Reward equation solved in favor of making the effort?

When is putting up with a jerk like me worth the effort?

We should pray about! (See what a jerk I am!?)

I have a hearing impaired daughter who has worked at home since lock downs began. She was not able to participate in much of the office chatter and banter when she went into an office with others. But she, too, gets a bit depressed with the "silence" of no one moving and engaging around her. She feels even more cut off from the world.

I hear you. It is too loud this silence.

I enjoy laughter and being the stone-cold loner that I am, I don't have trouble getting sufficient for my needs.

I say this in reference to my perception of an apparent indifference many of you seem to have for engaging in any interactions that don't fit your existing experiences.

I remember the late 1990s-early 2000s when AOL-themed (and moderated) chatrooms were the rage. I joined in the revelry of a chatroom called "The Bookshelf". Just by the title, it was self-selecting. (The most common epithet hurled by those trying to disrupt us was "Books are for Loosers!" You can imagine the hilarity the misspelling promoted!)

But of course, the current polarization didn't exist then, so maybe now there'd have to be three such chatrooms: The Bookshelf for Libs, The Bookshelf for Cons, and The Bookshelf for Uncommitteds.

During its heyday, The Bookshelf population sponsored regional get-togethers, where the 'compatible people' assembled to bask in mutual admiration societies.  I suspect these get-togethers were much like the Exmo Society's yearly meetings.

From my experience here, the differences between some of us are too vast to allow for meaningful connection.  In real life, more than a few of us, despite sharing an antipathy for mormonism, would still NEVER get along!

But most of you are too polite to acknowledge this view because of the perception that we're all "united" because of our opposition to mormonism. 


And now, seemingly out of the blue, I'd like to nominate each "player" be limited to one OT post a week; I think it would be helpful.  Weird, huh?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2021 11:57AM by Tyson Dunn.

I am sorry my response suggested opposition to your basic theme.  I am totally in favor of people reaching out to each other for support.  And if you supposed that I think your post is OT, you'd be wrong.  I welcomed it!

Humans are social animals; my experiences on The Bookshelf were almost up there with being idyllic!  It's always been my hope that, first PostMormon(dot)Org and now Exmormon(dot)org, would supply me with the same pleasures that the old The Bookshelf did: interaction with like-minded people.

When we stay "on topic" our worldly differences are muted. I suspect that was the reason that at one time political discussions were banned. Not being a political person, I was sorry when that ban was lifted. Now I suspect that were it to be reinstated, there would be a lot of squawking about censorship.

Again, this thread is about as on-topic as a thread can be, given that we're supposed to have a common bond and be supportive of one another.


I wrote, and then deleted, something along the lines of: "If any of you think that dropping me a line might result in a useful exchange, feel free to do so."  Weird, huh?  I want to be a giver, not a taker.  But there are hills I will die on . . .

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2021 11:58AM by Tyson Dunn.

You might both be saying the same thing, that people, ultimately, can be rather disappointing up close, so IT'S HOPELESS, or it seems so sometimes when lies, cheating, thievery, BS, stand-ups, dangerous people, mean spirited folks, people's temperament, moods, and even character can be So Unpredictable and unforgiving that's it is hard to consider even being around some people... Even have a NORMAL, polite, respectful interaction with others, or even have GOOD TIMES (again), freely, and without thinking or regard. Friendships

Don't mind the elder...dog.
It doesn't mind us either.

and they were around all day, I could have used an office. It is difficult to get work done with 2 kids hanging out. I'd get up at 5 a.m. to get anything done and stay up late.

Then they were in school and I was a single mom. I needed an office and so I took a job from a friend and worked for that company in an office for LESS, but I hung onto my other job. She eventually met my second job in pay and up until about 10 years ago, I could go to the office, but eventually I got tired of being at the office. I couldn't get anything done. I work typing medical records and I get paid by the line right now.

NOW for some odd reason I need SPACE. I've had enough of people needing or wanting something from me. I enjoy being alone. I'm not getting enough of it. With what is going on in my life, I'm past losing my mind. It is gone.

This Pandemic has come with some unprecedented outcomes for people worldwide and for me here are some I see that have been hard to accept but it is what it is and I move forward.

1. I believe its knocked a decade off of my life expectancy. I am 50 now. I used to count on 90 as my target age. I now believe its going to be more like 80.

2. By 2036 the social safety nets in America for most seniors are going to be primarily be an exercise in sucking out whatever people have while giving them nothing material in return. We see this already in small part with the Parts of Medicare where premiums are high, getting higher, and eventually it'll likely work like a vacuum cleaner on Social Security checks, pensions, IRAs, 401Ks, and other assets. Opting out just won't be an option.

3. All pretext that even a sizable portion of Americans care about truth/justice/fairness is gone. They are either first warriors for the Democrats or first warriors for the Republicans. There are some exceptions on this but they are very rare.

4. No government on earth is going to really make a material difference on climate change, fiat bubble bursts, or regional belligerences. For the most part the interventions are going to be like feudalism politics on what really happens. But of course it'll be sold as kissing babies and through other clever marketing strategies that'll suck most people in.

5. I need social interaction. But filling this need has been curtailed by the pandemic. And even post-pandemic I see there will be limits for a very long time, especially as I get older and my body/immune system wears down more.

6. What is a legacy and is it worthwhile to put much energy into leaving our mark visibly? Nope, just the quiet legacy we can leave for others and even then it'll be long forgotten by the 22nd century for almost all of us.

There is nothing we can do to change the past. I am just one person, too old to try to change people on anything, and not in the top 0.01% where I can carefully navigate and buy the real freedom/mobility I desire on seeing the world. This pandemic has already sucked away over 5% of my remaining life expectancy. If we double its length I'll be a full tithe payer.

I'm not going to waste much time debating these 6 personal discoveries and fully expect/respect the rights of others to disagree. For me #1/#2 just point out the futility of putting my heart/energy in my career or even too much in investments' worries. I basically have about 260,000 more hours until I'm in my 80s. If I'm still alive at that point then I'll be too old to travel and likely to just want to spend my leisure time talking with friends & loved ones and watching/listening to movies/music. On #3 its too much like 1774 and 1859 now in America where my regret is that I'm still so emotionally/financially tied to the well-being of America right now. I'm not going to convince anyone to have consensus/synergy to really solve problems and unfortunately we may actually be past the point of no return. Even though I haven't been in the USA for over 6 months. On #4 the gloom/doom predictions predate my birth and of course there are risks but I am just one of over 7 billion, or is it 8 billion now? In many developing countries the population growth rate is just so astonishingly high and continues to be so now. And I've yet to see any influencers really address the key risks on #4 and anytime anyone tries to take on the biggest one they get swatted down. I guess I will be more appreciative (in non-crowded ways) of the future opportunities for #5 and in the meantime will strive to enjoy nature as much as possible. On #6 my focus has switched from my hours on career & what other people expect towards putting my time/resources into quietly helping others. Quietly helping children and young adults be mentored in education/careers is very satisfying. But its important to keep boundaries and accept that they are going to make their own decisions.

On #1 I'm reminded how the most brilliant scientists in the world have not had any success in over 22 months in really figuring out the source of this pandemic. The closest match they have on finding the missing link is a DNA sample taken deep in a mine around a decade ago. Thus we haven't learned anything so we are going to just have to repeat this awful history with future pandemics and when I'm in my 80s/90s my chances of survival when infected aren't very good :( The root cause here isn't that our scientists are pathetic but that politics is more important to the powerful folks around the world so real science doesn't have a fair chance to really figure out how this pandemic started. There's nothing we can do to undo the deaths that have happened. But our opportunity to prevent future pandemics looks pretty grim now. On #4 the biggest factor is the same that I hold responsible on #1. This regime on both #1/#4 will be hosting the next Winter Games in a few months and while that happens I'm just going to ignore them and read/watch old content from the 1936 Olympic Games.

So off I go towards the next 260,000 hours :) The best investment of time is on good health and just putting smiles on the faces of other people.

What happens will happen
But there are possibilities

Well, we can either live in ["safe"] groups, or "safe" separately, isolated, alone (it seems like most accept-prefer the social-isolation-"distance"/ separation/ screen everything/ everyone/ don't ever take a chance and trust no one right now) I dislike but occasionally have tendencies with some of the latter. Imagine living in a self-sufficient, self-governing, sovereign, household-community that had everything it's beautiful loving citizens needed. Nothing BAD coming In, nothing GOOD going Out. EVERYONE respectful, trustworthy, reliable, personal, caring... Or at least amongst friends, family, neighbors and anyone online, on the phone, at the door, or out in public!

What can we do?
What do we do?

Don't ask me (and I won't ask you).

Good health
People smiling

I couldn't agree more, so I won't.

But it's true ;)

On Winter Games .... I mean I will be ignoring the "feel good" story line and just look for comparisons of this regime with the ones who ran the 1936 Olympics. The big question I have on my mind is whether or not we're going to see a WW3 happen. I certainly hope not.

      Wow, for a 50-something, you think quite clearly and express yourself very well!   It goes without saying (but here I am saying it), I like how you think!

      My dad made it to 79 and my mom made it to 98 years old when she fell and broke her hip... Otherwise, she'd be 111 right now...

      I'll be happy with splitting the difference, which is likely to happen, as I live a much healthier lifestyle than my dad. Meaning I'll die around the same time Social Security quits doling me out what by then will be free money.

      I have total faith in humanity's ability to screw things up and cause sufficient suffering so that the current set of self-serving idiots in charge will be replaced by a brand new, self-promoting, and equally self-serving set of idiots.

      "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" was a bigger fairy tale than the Cinderella story.

      Government-mandated-and-carried-out-Climate-Change is a very sick and sad joke. Except for Ed Begley, Jr., each and every one of us expects The Other Guy to stop making extra carbon dioxide, so that CO₂ levels will drop, even as I continue to increase my own personal production of what trees and grass breathe.

      Imagine, if you can, an Earth with a population of one billion human beings, ruled by Elon Musk on even days and Mark Zuckerberg on odd days.   I will miss internal combustion engines, but I know it'll be for the best.

      Alex71vn, it was fun reading your post. If you're new here, I hope you stick around! If you're sock-puppeting, I forgive you and am curious as all get out as to which Regular you might be.

I've been here in the past but I'm long past Mormonism. It still has it clenches on my parents (both in their 80s) and siblings, along with other relatives. But I'm long past it. Those who have been around a long time will recognize me, though I use VN because its where I live now.

He's one of the kindest, intelligent, and thoughtful people out there. I had the privilege of attending his wedding. I once had an opening in a company I was working for where I thought it would be great if we got him employed there, they hired him, it was a pleasure to work with him, and he stayed at the company for a while after I did. He's so intelligent that he'll probably figure out who I am, unless COVID-19 or something else fried his brain ;)

Tyson - cheers to you and your husband :) I hope we all get past this awful pandemic soon.

Alex71vn wrote what I've been thinking, but am afraid to put into words.

I prefer to simplify things, to bear with me:

I don't think I would be doing well at all, if I were still in the Mormon cult. Most of the Mormons' beliefs outside of religion seem as nuts to me as religious superstitions are.

In a way, we're lucky that many of us have already adjusted to being shunned, when we left the cult. I'm used to being "unpopular." I don't take any isolation as "rejection," but as "peace."

I have learned to say "No" to Mormon callings and demands, and now I can say "No" to other situations and people who make me feel usafe. I can identify toxic people, in the first place. Surprisingly, I have discovered that most of the people in my life now are basically "good." Thank goodness for doctors, nurses, dentists, fire fighters, police, and other helpers!

As a mother, I've learned to love unconditionally, and put my family first. I devoted my life to my children and grandchildren, and thankfully we are close as a family, and we live near each other.

Being forced into a career, I had to learn to work with others, and get along, in spite of differences. I've tried to understand other points-of-view. I've learned to be more giving, and less judgmental. The career world has been interesting, and even fun, sometimes.

Nature still thrills me, and I can only hope that my grandchildren will live in a better world. It's harder to find solitude with hoards of people flooding the parks and former wilderness areas, but I hike earlier in the morning, on weekdays, and only when the air is less polluted....

Face it--since many of you are spending so much time alone--aren't you glad that you are a great person to be with! You're someone who never contradicts you, always agrees, laughs at your jokes, understands you, shares the same interests, will be with you from birth to death. There is no better companion than yourself!

Well put!

forestpal not logged in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Nature still thrills me, and I can only hope that
> my grandchildren will live in a better world.
> It's harder to find solitude with hoards of people
> flooding the parks and former wilderness areas,
> but I hike earlier in the morning, on weekdays,
> and only when the air is less polluted....
>

Hiking and walking have given me so much peace since I stopped believing in the summer and fall of 2003. It was nice to have a state park nearby to replace church going on Sundays. Also, RfM and the Foyer were excellent virtual spaces to supplant TSSC in the process of dissociation.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2021 11:57AM by Tyson Dunn.

Too many resources; not enough community?

Alex71vn, you nailed it. Dead on you are.

The world has sold itself and not for a mess of pottage.

I watched a commercial the other day and it was of a woman receiving packages delivered by the truckload. The only thing that would have made the image more telling is if she had stared at her phone while all the deliveries were made and then shot a selfie of herself with the boxes filled with plastic. This is the American dream and the dream of the rest of the world as well. It's over.

With this kind of self-distraction, the 1% can move about unrestrained.

What a mess of despair I read in these posts. Excuse me if I don't take part in the half empty mood I see. Too busy thinking about a Christmas visit to my granddaughter and her husband in Urbana, Illinois, and already working on activities for next year. There's a big wide world out there and there is a danger in viewing it only through the lens of the United States. Every generation has had problems and challenges to overcome. Surely this is not going to be the first to give in to them. If I am reading this in the wrong way I am sure you will let me know.

Half empty mood? People are expressing some deep concerns and honest observations that matter to them. I find that assessment to be half empty or at the least simplistic.

"Every generation has had problems and challenges to overcome." I always read that as a dismissal.

Usually I think my mission was an enormous waste of time, but as I have gotten older I've begun to appreciate the view it gave me of other peoples lives. So many people have things much worse than I do, and somehow they manage to survive. I met people who were impressed against their will into the German Scandinavian Foreigner SS Unit and served several years fighting for the Germans and then were imprisoned by the Russians for several years when the war was over, not getting back to Norway until almost ten years after they were first arrested by the German invaders. I met a woman who when she was seven years old, watched her parents loaded on a boat and shipped off to a concentration camp in Poland, they never came home.

During the height of the pandemic last school year my neighbor was complaining to me about her daughters on-line school classes and how her daughter was being "mentally tortured" by the government just to save old people who were going to die anyway.

While she was talking I remember meeting a man who was around her daughter's age in 1942, when his parents sent him to live with his grandfather on the desolate coast of North Norway. During the winter they lived on dried cod, potatoes, and oats. Every few weeks a German patrol boat would come around checking for underground fighters. The boy had to hide under the floor boards of a fishing boat in his grandfathers boat house as the soldiers searched the farm. This became routine and the officers would sit inside on their own boat with the oil heater and send the youngest soldiers out in the ice and snow and cold to inspect the houses and farms. The boy's grandfather started sharing warm food with these young soldiers as he felt sorry for them. Once the officer came ashore on the farm and wanted to search the boathouse. He directed one of the young soldiers to lift the floor boards on the fishing boat, he did and looked in and looked the boy right in the eye but did not change expression or sound any alarm, he simply put the board back down and said " all clear" and they left. I think times have been tough for all of us, but I don't think I've had to endure anything like my father's generation, and we should remind young people to keep perspective and not write it off as being dismissive.

Thanks for the story
I appreciate it

Well, you do have Peppa Pig.

Americans can see the writing on the wall. The empire was on its way out before the pandemic. Now our goose is really cooked. China calls the geopolitical shots now. What are we going to do, say "no"? Post-empire America looks like a looted treasury and Greek austerity, unless things change. Maybe the new boss won't be same as the old boss.

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

As I said "If I am reading this in the wrong way I am sure you will let me know." I did not intend to be dismissive but speaking for myself I prefer the view from the narrow end of the telescope.

Hi Kentish--I have to admit that the glass half full or half empty thing gets under my skin. Saying your glass is half full seems like self congratulations. I do get that is not what you are doing here, though.

I do like those who say the glass still has room for vodka, haha.

I always see the glass as all the way full. The question is, then, what is in it? And, is it going to taste good? Should I add a little more of something?

This thread made me think a lot on the subject you raise of "Every generation has had problems and challenges to overcome." Last night in my phone call with my 94 year old mother, who is still sharp as a tack as they say, I asked her how she felt about it. Is the world now just he same old same old? She is a very optimistic person whose glass never dips below half, like you.

Mom said no. Emphatic No. It's not the problems of the world are worse than they have ever been, (though I have to argue Climate Change is not *just another* problem), but there has never been this level of selfishness. Somehow before people came together. We have peaked as a species. There is no where but down. Yes, there will be some thrills on the ride down. Put your hands in the air and scream for joy as the roller coaster has a few more small ups on the way down. But make no mistake the ride is ending.


I respect that what I write is not what you see, but I just wanted to explain myself. I have fought for 35 years to keep a small company going--forty to fifty employees. Always been difficult, but has become exponentially worse to being impossible as the have's and have not's duke it out--their rapid division further shoving the remains of the fabled middle class to outer darkness. What I see first hand in a business that does business world wide is what is in my glass.

I see the good, the possibilities. They just too often seem to appear as an endangered species.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I always see the glass as all the way full. The
> question is, then, what is in it?

That's well put.

Simple phrases are sometimes just handy devices, especially when posting on a small tablet such as now. Saves on potential finger slippage.

Pandemic has definitely been quite the long, hard run for many hoping to maybe get out from under way way too many restraints and restriction. Just the worry of the unknown alone was just about enough to cause any small personality flaws or disorders to nearly come out in full bloom.
Nevermind accelerate everybody's mental non-illness right into the fast lane.

Soon enough we'll be pretty much done, and then we need to watch out for the angle of the pendulum as it probably swings in exactly the opposite direction.

I'mm already looking forward to 2023 and 2024 year!

I feel you. Television and music is definitely not the same as talking to a good friend. I have been reaching out a lot to good friends of my past since I got covid and it has been very helpful. I am even talking about reaching out to a good friend from my high school days. I also have been going to the mall and playing cards like the old days also since I was tested negative of having covid anymore. I do struggle with loneliness even without having covid though I do admit.

I am presently enjoying the quiet at home because I am studying Joseph campbell's
THE HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES to help me organize and finish a novel that I have been working on fot too long.
If any of you are authors or would be authors you might find this book a very good asset.
OH well it is fro me anyway
have a nice day

I'm interested.

I've heard it is mighty good.
Joseph Campbell is wsheww°anyway...

Have fun with that

I could always share my number and we could talk. That goes for just about anyone decent here. It's always good to make great friends... or at least have someone intelligent to connect with, that's for sure. Having someone local, a real pal is always best. Best to ya' TD (touchdown!)~

Too much time around the house?
Get out every day for 'air'-hair.

Rarely does anything happen there that is unpredictable, spontaneous or wild. That's the problem. It's almost routine- Get out of the house! Connect with the wider world, Web or not.

I know almost no one local, having moved here not long before the pandemic. The few groups we tried to get involved in all became virtual for the pandemic, and we hadn't really established friends among those people.

I do go outside almost daily, but the weather is starting to get less amenable to that.

Tyson