Maybe the mormons should edit the book of mormon to say the golden plates were written in hebrew. They could deny any changes and say it always said hebrew.

This is an interesting hypothetical.

I am a nevermo, so could someone please tell me when the golden plates either "were" written, or were purported to have been written?

Also: in what geographical place were they found? [I don't know if they ever actually existed or not, so if the golden plates never existed, please tell me the basic outline of the subsequently-told cover story.]

Thank you!

The plates would have been written between the time of the Lehites leaving Jerusalem and the end of the Nephite civilization i.e. c.600 BCE to 420 CE. (The book of Ether is Moroni's translation of Jaredite records which would date from the time of the tower of Babel - whenever that supposedly occurred).

They were supposedly found in the Hill Cumorah just outside Palmyra in upstate New York.

There's supposedly a cave full of plates, many stacked up against the walls like unto a teenager's bedroom. They are guarded by an angel with a sword. If you can believe that, maybe you can also believe golden (not tin) plates engraved with reformed Egyptian, we think, because nobody but Joseph would dare look upon them lest they be struck dead.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2021 12:34AM by bradley.

Thank you.

[|] Wrote:
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> The plates would have been written between the
> time of the Lehites leaving Jerusalem and the end
> of the Nephite civilization i.e. c.600 BCE to 420
> CE. (The book of Ether is Moroni's translation of
> Jaredite records which would date from the time of
> the tower of Babel - whenever that supposedly
> occurred).
>
> They were supposedly found in the Hill Cumorah
> just outside Palmyra in upstate New York.

Thank you.

It was after Frodo returned from Mordor . . .

elderolddog Wrote:
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> It was after Frodo returned from Mordor . . .

Thank you.

How about Spangish?

Anybody could have translated Hebrew. Only a super cool dude could translate Reformed Egyptian. All the cool kids in 1820 were heavily into Egypt, thanks to Napoleon.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> Anybody could have translated Hebrew.

That's what I was going to say: Because there were local people skilled in Hebrew at the time and he didn't want to risk embarrassment, plus he knew he couldn't pull one over on them, His FACT Checkers.


Reformed Egyptian didn't (doesn't) exist - but this was during the "reformation" (of the 'church') period, so most would-be believers/ followers/ members/ dupes/ TITHE PAYERS may easier led astray.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> All the cool kids in 1820 were heavily into Egypt,
> thanks to Napoleon.


Yeah, the BoM was biblical fan fiction. Reformed Egyptian was JS's equivalent of Elvish or Klingon.

Actually, the BoM reads better in the original Klingon, where it is made very clear that those fell away from praising the exploits of Kahless, did become full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek only for profit, were given a sore cursing, so that they would not be enticing, and thus we have Ferengi.

Mormon 9:33

If our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew .... If we could have written in Hebrew, ye would have had no imperfection in our record.

So....

Writing the most important book was done in an imperfect language because there was no room on the plates.

But...

Two thirds of the plates were sealed. So basically instead of making two sets of plates. One in perfect Hebrew that could be presented to the world.

Then a second set of plate to come forth later that could be sealed up elsewhere like ohhhh I don't know, the vault of all plated maybe?

God has Mormon write a set of plates, the majority of which won't be used, that contains errors. Then has him lug them around?

Also it shows Joseph's lack of understanding of hieroglyphic writing. Joseph assumed that one symbol always represented a word or even a sentence.

He believed a single marking could be Zarahemla or even the infamous "and it came to pass".

There was no room because Mormon/Moroni/Smith padded the text like a freshman writing an essay for a Remedial English class.

3 Nephi 2:4
"And thus did pass away the ninety and sixth year; and also the ninety and seventh year; and also the ninety and eighth year; and also the ninety and ninth year;"

4 Nephi 1:6
"And thus did the thirty and eighth year pass away, and also the thirty and ninth, and forty and first, and the forty and second, yea, even until forty and nine years had passed away, and also the fifty and first, and the fifty and second; yea, and even until fifty and nine years had passed away."

4 Nephi 1:14
"And it came to pass that the seventy and first year passed away, and also the seventy and second year, yea, and in fine, till the seventy and ninth year had passed away; yea, even an hundred years had passed away…"

It reads as if he was being paid by the word.

outta the cult Wrote:
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> It reads as if he was being paid by the word.

:D

This resonates with me.

When I was working for the fan magazines, and also for a number of public relations reps (and publishers for cover notes), it usually wasn't so much a situation of "being paid by the word" in most of my assignments, but writing to the space requirements of any particular piece.

A typical for instance assignment: Give me [the editor, or the p.r. rep] 750 words on Davy's [David Jones of the Monkees] new toothbrush [or whatever].

Some of those assignments were brutal (for me in particular: any assignment having to do with Jim Morrison--the all-time, without any doubt at all WORST, experiences of my entire writing career)--but I was frequently stuck with those assignments because I was on the short list of writers who could actually, eventually, get printable responses out of him. I know he was supposed to be high I.Q., but I, personally and unfortunately, never experienced that side of him--not even a speck of it.

Anyway, being paid "by the word" [or alternatively] given space requirements to fulfill which amounted to word count, can be--on a practical level--very similar to each other IRL.

I always replaced "uhhh" where Uncle Joe said, And It Came To Pass!

The problem is Joseph Smith didn’t know Hebrew. It was easier to scribble out some made up characters and call them reformed Egyptian. But yeah. The plates should be in Hebrew because Lehi was a Hebrew.

Cornflour bagels were a big hit among the Lamanites but became lost to history with the invention of Indian Fry Bread.

They, the cornflower bagels, were ALWAYS served after the Bris.

I'm glad to hear the bagels were not served WITH the Bris.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2021 04:36PM by Lot's Wife.

It's a good thing the plates were written in Reformed Egyptian, cause if it had been in Hebrew, they would have weighed about 400 pounds, instead of 200 pounds.

Since Joseph ran from would-be robbers lugging the plates, it would've given him a serious hernia if they had been 400 pounds instead!

One of the awesome things about the Nephites is that apparently, they knew and understood the French language! (Brethern, Adieu).

If Smith could have gotten his hands on The Book of Abraham before he found the plates they would have been written in Egyptian - no reformation needed.

Joseph pulled this one out of his a$$HAT.
Reframed Egyptian is what he really said.

No.

They would be more believable in Pig Latin. That language would suit the inanity to a tee and go well with the "Mother-may-I" mindset of the religion.

I think it would make more sense if they were written on paper or cloth scrolls, regardless of the language.

Lots of scrolls in antiquity, very few metals plates, but then we have solid gold plates for the BOM.....yeah, right.

It would make more sense if MORMONISM was HONEST and said it didn't know anything about the book of mormons... Because IT DOESN'T.

mrs_ochmonek Wrote:
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> Maybe the mormons should edit the book of mormon
> to say the golden plates were written in hebrew.
> They could deny any changes and say it always said
> hebrew.

What sense did MormØŽ-ism ever really make?

The plan didn't include internet and smartphones and the easy distribution of simple information, did it?

If they ever had the slight inkling to set some of their stupid idiotic pride down for a moment and hire a bona-fide team of turnaround artists it could be so so different.

Meanwhile, so much suffering and painful exclusion is present.

Idiots ..

Mormon 9:33 also states the Nephites had altered the Hebrew as well.

Heartless Wrote:
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> Mormon 9:33 also states the Nephites had altered
> the Hebrew as well.

That MORON!

Joey was just trying to blame it on the Knee Fights! ALWAYS trying to cover his "traps".

(A) There were never any "plates" to begin with.

(B) Even if Joseph Smith and his co-conspirators had enough cash to manufacture actual gold alloy sheets and hire scholars to write the "book" in faux ancient Hebrew, the content would be just as false.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2021 08:03AM by anybody.

One of my illustrious ancestors that knew Joseph wrote in his journal that there was a story circulating around 1840 or so that Joseph had melted some brass candlesticks and made plates out of them.

He then scratched so jibberish symbolism on them. He found it too difficult to do all the plates so he bound most of the plates saying they were sealed.

I've never been able to find any other references to this but found it an interesting tidbit.

Hmmmm...  Melted brass candlesticks v. a heavenly angel and a hole in the ground...?

I looked for, and watched, a short YT video about melting down brass:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN08tPdTOiU

I formed two quick impressions:

A)  making brass "sheets" or brass plates out of brass candlesticks would require,
  1. a crucible,
  2. a source of heat,
  3. a mold (where you'd pour
     the molten brass so that
     it cooled in the shape of
      a "plate",
  4. and then something to use
     as an inscribing tool.

B)  Joseph Smith, Jr. by all the accounts I've read, would have had to have someone do all this for him because he was one lazy ass sumbitch...


If only one mold was available, any plates made would be one at a time. How much brass was available?

If he didn't have a sufficient supply of water, he'd have to wait between each casting.

What was his fuel, how much was available?

Google says wood wouldn't do the job, so that means coal. But coal can burn too hot, so getting it right isn't easy. And I'm fairly certain that JoJu was all about 'easy."

Yes, JoJu organizing an attempt to melt down brass candlesticks in order to create phony "gold" plates makes sense, but it makes even more sense that it would wind up being too great a challenge and if more than one was made, I'll choke down some of Gladys Lot's oatmeal cookies au gratin.

Maybe he used a local smithy?

Was the era of local blacksmiths. Coal would be available. The candlesticks could be quite large.

Just think, if ever a gold fleck is found in the dirt somewhere, that could possibly mean the rest of the gold plates might be nearby!

Good Grief ..

logicofamormon