Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 04:19PM

https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2022/01/20/byu-is-under-federal/

This is in regards to how BYU interprets their exemption to title IX when it come to their treatment of gay students.

Finally!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 04:38PM

Splendid news!

Thank you for this, gemini.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: I ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 04:44PM

Telescope, Microscope, light switch...

BYU is like a roach scurrying when the light comes on. Afraid of the light!

> Gemini <
°°°° ;) °°°°

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 05:09PM

Here’s my attempt at a synopsis of the SLTrib piece, since it’s behind the subscriber paywall:


The investigation is into the manner in which BYU “…disciplines its LGBTQ students…”  Is BYU violating their civil rights?

Such scrutiny by the Feds is rare, especially with a church school.

The genesis of the investigation appears to be a complaint filed in Spring of 2020, when changes were made in the Honor Code, giving the impression that Gay relationships would be tolerated.  But a few weeks later the Y said, “Nope, no Gaiety here, you heathens!”  Which resulted in complaints that Gay students had been tricked into ‘coming out’.

The investigation seems to be centered on the issue, ...is it a violation of Gays’ rights to disallow same-sex mating rituals that heteros are allowed?  If the heteros can be snuggle-bunnies, why can’t the Gays?

A BYU spokesman said she expects the Feds will allow the Y to continue to enforce church standards, because Title IX, under which the investigation is being pursued, does allow church schools to enforce their religious doctrines.

The article mentions that bastion of church rights, Dalila Oaks, who in 1976 led the charge for religious institutions being allowed to “discriminate” on the basis of beliefs, the first school (but not the last) to do so.

Probes into the lives and backgrounds of employees were seen as necessary to make sure there was compliance with ‘church standards.’  Oaks noted that he wasn’t asking permission; he was telling them what was going to happen.

One such ‘violation’ of Title IX is denying a student an earned or awarded scholarship if the school finds out he/she is Gay.  BYU says it has the right/power to do this.

Because students sign the Honor Code, violations can have consequences that they explicitly agreed to.  But if “homosexual behavior” is no longer covered in the Honor Code, can church standards still be imposed, with resultant consequences?

Current Pres. Kevin Worthen wrote to the Feds as soon as he learned of the investigation to tell them, “Yes, yes we can.” He said that right was implied because it is a known church standard.

The fight is going to be over the 2020 change in the Honor Code wording; can students, faculty, and employees rely on the change, or will the church’s view that the rewording didn’t change anything about their rules (interesting POV) be persuasive?

A number of Gay students and alumni were interviewed and they want the church to change.  The church counters that they have to answer to a higher power than the Feds . . .  And the US Constitution gives them that right and they already have the power.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 05:45PM

That mentality is why I would never attend BYU.
In my opinion the whol university is a theological cult in operation

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 06:21PM

I'm not sure how it applies to religious schools, but aren't there certain civil rights that you can't sign away?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 06:14PM

It was okay for Brigham Young to stick his dick into 55 women but it's not okay for two men to hold hands.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 06:41PM

"They" say that you have exactly described the situation!

There is no doubt, at this juncture, that BYU and other religious schools have carved out this exemption from civil (and moral) rights.

The fight centers on the Feb. 20th, 2020 change in the Honor Code, which seemed to remove "being Gay" as a cause for discipline.  So some students not only 'came out' but believing they were free to do so, began to couples things, like holding hands.

Nothing happened for a few weeks and then the church/school said, "NO!", just because we changed the Honor Code does not mean our basic precepts have changed!  They'll never change!!  You Gays stop being visibly Gay!!!"

And so the complaint with the Feds was filed, based on the Gays' perception that they were 'bait & switched'.

So far, religion has trumped civil rights, just the way ghawd likes it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2022 06:41PM by elderolddog.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 07:41PM

"...just because we changed the Honor Code does not mean our basic precepts have changed".

Does this make any sense?

I like things to make sense.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 09:50PM

Just don't say the word 'mormon' and everything will be fine.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 07:40PM

Was somebody counting?

Is accuracy assured?

Question to self: Does it matter? After the first 55...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: heartbroken ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 08:21PM

I'm sorry you missed my point.

I don't know if that number is accurate. Brigham was sealed to 55 wives.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 09:54PM

We're not counting sheep.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 10:03PM

I was just being flippant. Sorry, I know it's a serious subject.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 21, 2022 12:00AM

“Flippancy is its own reward.”

—-John 3:17

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 06:20PM

Excellent news.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 07:50PM

"...just because we changed the Honor Code does not mean our basic precepts have changed".

or

"Just we because we changed the Honor Code wording to make our homophobia less obvious in a world that now find it unacceptable, does not mean the underlying bigotry is not still in play. "

This is what religious exemption has wrought. But it's not just the Mormons at fault. It is our entire "hands off religion" M.O. as a nation. And it will last as long as politicians need religious votes. Which is why more and more religious leaders are crossing the line into political stances.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: January 20, 2022 09:11PM

Amen to all that.

You'd think they would be tired of always being on the wrong side of history. Every time! They have to know the lessons of history but they don't care. Their role is to be regressive and slow down change to maintain the status quo. They know the bulk of their followers will just follow along.

Politicians and religious leaders have been in cahoots for centuries to help each other maintain power.

King (or Politician): I'll push your agenda of petty rules and beliefs if you get your followers to support me. You keep them docile and happy thinking about their rewards in an afterlife. Oh, and keep them away from higher education where they might start questioning.

Priest (religious leader): OK, you keep me in power and I'll keep you in power. I'm counting on you to keep scrutiny and taxes away from religion.

King and Priest: Hahahaha! (Elbow bump) Ka-ching! Cheers to our power and riches. Here's to the religious people who serve our purposes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: January 21, 2022 12:24AM

Sad fact time: most active Mormons (including the G-15) will see this as persecution and a sure sign of the last days. I would be not at all surprised to hear something about this in Conference.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: January 21, 2022 02:05AM

someone should ask: (something like) " what role does gender / gender attraction have in the mission of education?"

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: January 21, 2022 05:39AM

What role do church dances and singles activities play? BYU is a meet market.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: January 21, 2022 09:15AM

Mormons creating gay eunuchs like in the past they stole young women from young men. I'm actually surprised it took them this long to "accept" gay people. They used to kick them out. Now they want them in to torture them and can feel both benevolent, magnanimous, and superior. Win win win

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: I ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 02:16PM

The LDSM/ mormon church wants to treat others differently than it wants to be treated: DIFFERENTLY!

Behind CLOSED DOORS

Being OPENED

° •Cool Kids• °
'Cracked Codes'
Coveted Contents
*Conduct Candy*

FREE AGENCY - That's what Mormonism is afraid of, and by nature, MORMONS are perplexed by, and thereby apprehensive and skeptical of.

Always walking on eggshells. Afraid (of the unknown). Scared to think for yourself! Tragic!¡

When the worried opens it's eyes, Mormonism shrinks, literally as well as metaphysically.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: I ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 02:18PM

The world!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: January 23, 2022 02:31PM

The wording was changed to remove a possible impediment to being a good host an international dance competition, which had couples of the same sex competing.

The ‘old’ Horror Code prohibited such behavior on school grounds,

So they “changed” the Horror Code wording, the competition was held, and when the Gays tried to piggyback on that language, notice was given that the church only ‘said’ it, they didn’t mean it.

Surely, when the Feds figure this out, they’ll forgive the church! After all, the church is just like any other human organization and shouldn’t be held to a higher standard. What bureaucrat doesn’t understand that?

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **    **   ******   **     **  ********   **     ** 
  **  **   **    **  **     **  **     **  **     ** 
   ****    **        **     **  **     **  **     ** 
    **     **        **     **  **     **  ********* 
    **     **        **     **  **     **  **     ** 
    **     **    **  **     **  **     **  **     ** 
    **      ******    *******   ********   **     **