Things are heating up in the story.

More importantly, it’s interesting to see all the things that are routinely discussed here on RfM dramatized so accurately.

I don’t want to post any spoilers, since it just came out today, but one storyline is particularly creepy (standing out amongst all the creepiness).

I say “storyline” but need to remember that it’s based on a true story. And I have lots of thoughts about it, but, again, won’t want to post any spoilers yet.

I’ve said this before, but I’ll say it again: how could anyone raise his daughters in this creepy cult? I have two daughters and would never...my TBM convert brother also has two daughters. I just can’t imagine.


QUESTION: do you find the culture and behaviors accurate and believable?

I'm surprised people aren't talking more about this show. I thought there would be weekly threads with plenty of discussion. It kinda bums me out. Is no one watching it?

Im not sure which storyline youre talking about, but for me 2 stand out. How Bishop Low handled Dans kids. When detective was shocked about it, it made me sad thinking about how that's happened to so many people. I wonder what he'd say when he finds out about the native homing program. And I was shocked about the lamanite comment the other detective made in front of his partner, but I guess that was common lingo in the 80s.

The other is Brady. That part shocked me in the book (probably one of the most shocking for me, apart from the actual murders). Seeing the scene play out was so creepy. Just "what is wrong with you?"

cftexan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm surprised people aren't talking more about
> this show.


Me too.

I'm very interested in the topic, Gordon and cftexan. It's just that we don't have Hulu and are paring back the few streaming services we have. Netflix is next on the chopping block and probably HBO after that. The one that we still like is PBS.

My assumption about UBH is that we'll get a chance to see the series in a few years. But if we had access, I'd definitely be engaged in these discussions.

Lots Wife, I toggle between subscription services based on shows I want to watch on each provider. I switch to a new one every few months. Luckily HBO comes with my internet service. They have some great shows on there.

Wow, so, first, let me say I feel like a jerk now! :(

Secondly, I totally get it. I cut the cable years ago, and traditionally am not much of a TV watcher. When I cut cable, I thought I'd "review" some of the streaming services, to save a few bucks, and then I never bothered to follow through! My daughters both came home from school when the pandemic struck, and each have a couple of streaming subscriptions, so between them, we get a lot of stuff. And to fend off cabin fever I've streamed a lot of Netflix and other stuff (frankly, I'll watch whatever my daughters want to--I just enjoy having them around).

That said, there's an Oxygen episode about a nearby serial killing spree that remains unsolved since the 80's that I'd like to see, and we don't get Oxygen. :(



Maybe we ought to do some bigger "spoiler" posts to help with discussion.

You're not a jerk at all. I was just explaining my silence on a good topic.

My son and I signed up for Hulu two or three years ago to watch the World Cup, but I was slow to cancel the service and it was very expensive. At the time it was by far the most expensive stream, in part because I can't tolerate commercials.

Thanks. I just meant that I shouldn't assume that everyone has access to the series.

Gordon B. Stinky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe we ought to do some bigger "spoiler" posts
> to help with discussion.

Yes, I like this idea. You can always include a 'Spoiler Alert' in the sub line.

I don't do streaming. I'm slow to get on board. PBS is part of my existing TV contract and I find plenty of UK dramas and history shows to keep me more than busy. Most of them are brilliant. I find British actors to be so talented (maybe they all channel Shakespeare or something) as they don't seem to be acting. To the point I can't take much of anything too scary - it feels so real. I've never been one to go to the movie theatre either so I've missed out on a lifetime of box office goodies. Seems like an immense chore now to try and catch up.

I would enjoy reading some of the "spoilers" from the Banner of Heaven series. If people don't want to read it they can avoid those posts.

I note that several posters have mentioned how triggering the series is for them. That's very sad. How truly awful must your religious experience have been that a film causes unpleasant flashbacks for you? Mormonism is in a unique, and hopefully small, group as a religion that is so all-consuming and unsustainable that staying isn't an option but leaving is fraught with negative impacts as well?

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon B. Stinky Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Maybe we ought to do some bigger "spoiler" posts
> > to help with discussion.
>
> Yes, I like this idea. You can always include a
> 'Spoiler Alert' in the sub line.


Since the other day I've been wondering about maybe going back and putting together a more detailed summary or "episode guide," in order to spark some conversation.

Would that interest people?

Someone started an Episode 6 thread, and I put a few more details in my comments there.



> I note that several posters have mentioned how
> triggering the series is for them.


As a nevermo, I didn't expect to experience this, but...

In episode 5, there's some jockeying to be the head of the family (patriarch, I assume, but forget how they referred to it). Well, that triggered me somewhat, because at the end of my father's life there were multiple obvious and ham-fisted attempts on the part of my TBM SiL to establish her husband -- my baby brother -- as the "leader" of the family. It really aggravated me at the time, and it irritates me now.

Gordon B. Stinky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nightingale Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Gordon B. Stinky Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Maybe we ought to do some bigger "spoiler"
> posts
> > > to help with discussion.
> >
> > Yes, I like this idea. You can always include a
> > 'Spoiler Alert' in the sub line.
>
>
> Since the other day I've been wondering about
> maybe going back and putting together a more
> detailed summary or "episode guide," in order to
> spark some conversation.
>
> Would that interest people?
>


Yes, I for one would find that very interesting.

I don't get any streaming services. I'm hoping to change that this summer, but first I need to ramp up my internet speed. Even then, I'm not sure that Hulu will be on my list. I'm more interested in getting Netflix and Britbox.

My brother toggles between the streaming services depending on what he wants to see. Perhaps that is the best way to handle it.

Netflix is, in my opinion, about the worst of the bunch. Several years ago they moved from high-end movies to in-house serials, some of which were very good. But after one season they would cancel the best shows rather than having to pay what the actors and writers demanded for additional seasons.

More recently Netflix has been programing almost uniformly bad stuff in the misconceived belief that people would not drop the service. As a result, the first quarter saw the company lose a lot of subscribers and announce that it will lose more. The share price fell sharply.

If you're going to join, I'd suggest doing it right now because Netflix has panicked and put up a lot of good shows in an emergency effort to stop the hemorrhaging. I don't think they can keep doing that: they have emptied the vault and will need some time to purchase or produce new content.

Assuming that other big streaming companies have more or less the same strategy and vulnerability, I'd consider the quirkier services like perhaps Britbox, PBS, etc. Of course others' recommendations may differ. . .

Netflix is the one I rarely have. I really only used it to watch Grace and Frankie, and the ocassional interesting Stand Up Special. Now that GAF is over, after I watch Ricky Gervaus stand up comedy special, I'll give it up for good.

I watched all the crime dramas on Netflix, and Ricky Gervais’ show After Life (loved that). Then there seemed to be nothing else so I cancelled it. I’m not sure I’d pay for Disney+ but I’d like to see this show.

Oh yeah, Afterlife was on Netflix. I loved that one.

cftexan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Im not sure which storyline youre talking about,
> but for me 2 stand out. How Bishop Low handled
> Dans kids. When detective was shocked about it, it
> made me sad thinking about how that's happened to
> so many people. I wonder what he'd say when he
> finds out about the native homing program. And I
> was shocked about the lamanite comment the other
> detective made in front of his partner, but I
> guess that was common lingo in the 80s.


That storyline with Dan's kids stands out to me too, but from a different perspective: that Dan intended to "marry" his stepchildren. I had two step daughters of my own, and only ever wanted the best for them. Still do. That included raising them as my own, sending them to college. Adopting them legally. Etc.

"Marrying" them certainly wouldn't have been in their best interests. And it's perverse, obviously.


Of course, marrying children is part and parcel to Joseph's Myth.

Gordon B. Stinky
> That storyline with Dan's kids stands out to me
> too, but from a different perspective: that Dan
> intended to "marry" his stepchildren. I had two
> step daughters of my own, and only ever wanted the
> best for them. Still do. That included raising
> them as my own, sending them to college. Adopting
> them legally. Etc.
>
> "Marrying" them certainly wouldn't have been in
> their best interests. And it's perverse,
> obviously.
>
>
> Of course, marrying children is part and parcel to
> Joseph's Myth.

Of course, that part was horrifying as well.

cftexan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The other is Brady. That part shocked me in the
> book (probably one of the most shocking for me,
> apart from the actual murders). Seeing the scene
> play out was so creepy. Just "what is wrong with
> you?"


Yes, it's striking in a number of ways. He reminds me of a cross between "Captain Moroni" of January 6th fame, and Mark Hoffman's pathetic sidekick.

I came across a review that described him as a "gosh-golly-gee fella," and "suburban doofus."

The thing that struck me about him ... and I'm not exactly sure how to sum it up ... was how easily he flowed between different personas: stern priesthood holder with the wife, and whiny fraidy cat with the detectives. And he was essentially afraid of his own beliefs, or at least how they manifest in the Lafferty brothers.

Maybe because you've met a lot of mormons who behave the same sort of way?

As a nevermo, I find it fascinating, particularly how the stake president was trying to intimidate the Mormon detective.

I really knew nothing about Fundie Mormons previously.

The Mormon characters in the show are much more pious than I remember, but OMG how they talk to one another gives me the worst willies! Nearly 20 years ago, reading the book made me aware of my church-related issues and gave me some new ones that were worse.

Now the show has helped me realize I was *trained* to accept abuse. I was only forced to participate for 6 years, so I can only imagine how angry I’d be if it was longer and/or my family was more believing.

My need to say that shows I’m still accepting the abuse. I’d write a manifesto, but I’ve been too busy taking abuse from my new worst client ever. All the years of work have only made it easier to say the thing is wrong with someone else and I’m OK. I can take it. Never mind the stiff neck, the migraine auras, and the knot in my stomach all day, every day. Because the abuse training was still deeply embedded in my family. If it wasn’t, I would have fired this client weeks ago.

So, yes, I find the culture and behaviors accurate and believable.

My wife and I binged the entire season yesterday. Things I noticed:
-Bishop and Detective talking about medications. I remember friends in Utah calling it Mormon candy
-Talking about polygamy splinter group in Canada. Yep, it's real.
-Bishop interview before baptism. Brought back creepy memories
-The general feeling that you are either with us or against us mentality.
-Brenda's weird loyalty to her husband. Reminded me of Susan Powell.
-The talk about eternal marriage to nauseam.
-Series hinted about the possibility of Brigham Young undermining JS in his last days. There were a lot of splinter groups vying for control of the religion and I think Brigham Young was the smartest of them all and most cunning. (IMHO)

Yeah that was the first I ever seen Brigham portrayed as conspiring to kill Joseph.

I always wondered, where was BY when JS was killed ?

I think it safe to assume he was not among the mob who assembled to kill JS. Nor could BY have encouraged or incited a group of people who hated all Mormon leaders and would have killed him on the spot.

To be convincing, a conspiracy theory must explain how exactly BY influenced the mob and how he subsequently kept those loudmouths, who blabbed about the murder to anyone who would listen, silent about his role.

BY was in Boston

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Brigham-Young

"When Joseph Smith was murdered (June 1844), Young was in Boston, pressing his leader’s presidential campaign"

Although this site says he was on a mission

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young

"In June 1844, while in jail awaiting trial for filed treason charges, Joseph Smith was killed by an armed mob who stormed the jail.[45][46] At the time, Young was on a mission to the Eastern States and did not learn of the assassination until early July"

But according to this, his mission was to campaign for JS

https://web.archive.org/web/20120104215904/http://josephsmithpapers.org/person?name=Brigham+Young

"Served mission to campaign for JS as candidate for U.S. president, 1844"

The portrayal of Allen Lafferty depicts him as not exactly grieving over his wife and daughter’s deaths. Not enough anger and rage. I wonder if the lack of emotion, as I interpret his characterization, was accurate.

I read that Brenda’s sister believes Allen knew about the plot to kill Brenda and her baby both, but just didn’t tell her.

Have any active members any of you know been advised from the pulpit to not watch UTBOH ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2022 04:29PM by Kathleen.

I haven't heard anything like that. One of my mormon friends is watching it, but hasnt said much about it. She's a more liberal mormon though, she went to see the Book of Mormon musical and thought it was hilarious.

If they did that, most of the teenagers would go right out and watch the series.