Oh too bad, blindguy. That Fifth Estate program was worth a listen. I'm glad you got to hear this one from The Current, but The Fifth Estate one was more in depth about the central issue of the money so it was very interesting.
Just in case you or someone else couldn't access The Current I transcribed it (before I saw your post that you had listened to it).
I've pasted the transcript below - not quite 100% of the program and not always completely verbatim, due to time and dispensing with repetitions.
I agree with you that the decision about whether to stay or leave the church will likely not rest with Nigel. I don't see how a member can make negative public statements about the church such as he has and not be severely disciplined, if not kicked out. (This interview was about a month ago).
His dilemma breaks my heart. I could hear the emotion in his voice. He can perceive this as a great injustice, a church collecting billions of tithing dollars and NOT using them for true charitable purposes, but he still feels bound by his "covenants" to remain a member, which is honourable on one hand but self-defeating on the other. I understand his situation though, having experienced some of the same when I left the JWs, although not to the same intensity as I wasn't born into it. You feel bound by solemn promises you have made but other crucial values compete. It can be difficult to choose which should be paramount.
Nigel said he views his solemn promises as being made to God, and not to the church and yet, to date, he accepts their power over him it seems. He speaks of church leaders thinking they stand between him and God but it seems like he thinks so too, although doesn't seem to realize it. Too, I don't know how one could make such comments publicly and not be called out by the bishop, at least. And not just a few negative comments but the whole exercise of essentially being a whistleblower. He said he had been struggling for years on the question of whether he should speak out. I didn't realize that he had made his financial discoveries years ago.
If he could cut out the middle man he could perhaps extricate himself from the ties that bind him to Mormonism. IOW, he wouldn't need the Mormon Church in order for him to still be a Christian, if that's what he wants.
What is completely mind-blowing are his comments about Brigham Young, Church President. Nigel said:
"Brigham Young himself to me I find to be an unpalatable character. The university bears the name of a racist and a misogynist and someone who introduced slavery into Utah, someone who was married to multiple women, who abused those wives, and so to send money to a university that bears the name of an individual like that I find disconcerting."
If you know this about a man who was a church president, a church that continues to keep him in the forefront by naming its universities after him, how do you reconcile that I wonder.
Also, how can you want to stay in a church that you characterize by making the following strong statement:
Nigel: "The church has built an empire by deceiving people."
I'm not intending to criticize him but trying to understand. It took a LOT less than this huge money thing to propel me out of the church (of course, I wasn't nearly as invested in it as a BIC would be). I feel so very sorry for him and the most uncomfortable dilemma he is in.
Here's the transcript I created from the program:
Mormon Church in Canada moves $1 billion tithing money out of country tax free
https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/2091991107573The Current re The Fifth Estate program on Mormon tithing and Canadian tithes being sent to the USA – “much of the money goes to BYU in Provo, Idaho and Hawaii”.
Discussion with Mark Kelly, investigative journalist and co-host of The Fifth Estate, that just did a program on this topic.
Also speaking to Nigel Kennett, BIC, accountant, current member who said: “Lying is the intent to deceive people. I think the church has built an empire by deceiving people.”
Matt, Host, to Mark Kelly: Remind me of the reach of the Mormon Church in Canada. How big is this church?
Mark: I knew very little about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, commonly known as the Mormons, at all, let alone their presence here in Canada. They date back to the late 1800s. Mormons set up a settlement in southern Alberta called Cardston. There’s a beautiful temple, the first Mormon temple that was built outside of the US was built there. There are 200,000 members in Canada, mostly in Alberta, not a big community when you look at 12 million Canadians who identify as Catholics, well over a million Canadians who identify as Muslims so we’re looking at 200,000 members. What’s staggering is the amount of wealth generated by a relatively small community. When we look back for the past 15 years, the Mormon community in Canada alone has generated more than 2 billion dollars in donations, tithing donations - that they make offerings to the church, and that was the focus of our investigation.
Matt: Two billion dollars. Why did you start to look at how that money is being used and where it’s going?
Mark: We got a tip from Nigel Kennett, a Mormon, an accountant from Alberta. He had looked into the Mormons’ books and saw something that disturbed him so he felt he had to share it, as he said to clear his conscience. There began a six-month investigation that took us from Alberta to Salt Lake City, to Las Vegas, to Australia. We were meeting whistleblowers along the way with their own financial revelations about the Mormons’ books.
Matt: Good morning, Nigel. You grew up in this church. Mark mentioned tithing and the amount of money that has been raised through that process of donating to the church. How important is that concept within the Mormon Church?
Nigel: It is quite important. Members believe it is a commandment to donate 10% of your increase to the church for the building up of the kingdom and for supporting those that are in need. I remember learning that tithing was used to cover operating costs for all the facilities across the world and I also was taught that it was used to help people, that it was used to alleviate poverty. So we donated with the intent to help but also that it was something that God required of us. It is a commandment that the church believes that everybody is required to pay tithing, even to the point of being able to enter into the temples, you are required to be a full tithe payer.
Matt: And so if you are not paying the tithe you are not allowed into the temple.
Nigel: Exactly. Some bishops are a bit more flexible. Some are more hardline. (not verbatim)
Matt: Where does the church say that the money is going? Is the expectation that the tithe that you would pay in Edmonton would stay in the Edmonton community?
Nigel: That’s always the hope is that it’s going to go and alleviate poverty within your surrounding areas. … The bishops aren’t just responsible for the members of the church but for the whole community that is within those ward boundaries and so there is a responsibility for the church to take care of not only its own but the neighbours of their own.
Matt: Why did you start to have a look at how this money was being spent and where it was actually going?
Nigel: I was working on an audit for a charity, making sure they were still in good standing as a registered charity. We have really strict financial reporting for charities in Canada to make sure organizations are held accountable and that their finances are transparent.
Then curiosity got the best of me and I searched The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and saw they were in good standing. Then I looked at their financial information. Let’s see who they sent money to. I saw that between 80 & 100 million dollars had been sent to qualified donees. I thought this is fantastic. Then I wanted to see who they donated to – maybe the food bank or Heart & Stroke or…. There had been wildfires that had ravaged communities. There had been communities that had been flooded. I thought that hopefully some of this aid had gone to these communities in need. I took a look and I saw that all the money that had been sent to qualified donees went to universities in Utah.
Matt: Your assumption was that this money would have gone to those causes that needed the donations locally and what you found was that the money had gone to Utah.
Nigel: It appeared that all the surplus cash after operating costs had been sent south of the border.
Matt: What were the schools where this money was going to?
Nigel: Brigham Young University in Provo. Brigham Young University in Idaho and Brigham Young University in Hawaii.
Matt: As an accountant, why did the alarm bells go off for you?
Nigel: In Canada we have very generous tax credits. … I see all this money that was donated within Canada that Canadian members of the church were able to benefit from tax credits for and I saw that a lot of this money was going south of the border. One of the reasons why there is such a generous charitable tax benefit in Canada is because it alleviates a lot of the responsibility from the federal government. (Donations support local causes so feds don’t have to).
Matt: BYU is an arm of the church, right?
Nigel: It’s entirely owned. It doesn’t receive any government funding which is why the church can operate it however it sees fit.
There are a few issues for me: The money is not staying in Canada to benefit Canadians. Canadians do attend BYU but the donations are disproportionate to the number of students that attend. BYU has all sorts of egregious problems because there are no checks and balances.
Brigham Young himself to me I find to be an unpalatable character. The university bears the name of a racist and a misogynist and someone who introduced slavery into Utah, someone who was married to multiple women, who abused those wives, and so to send money to a university that bears the name of an individual like that I find disconcerting.
Matt: He was also the president of the church.
Nigel: He was. Absolutely.
Matt: And so when you see that money going there, you say there are unpalatable issues that are at play here. For you as a Mormon what is this really about?
Nigel: It’s about making sure that the church is actually doing what it can to help people in need and the church has significant resources so we’re just talking about the church in Canada and their contributions but if we take a look at the church as a collective whole, the church is arguably one of the wealthiest religions in the world. They have billions of dollars in marketable securities, held by one of their sub-charities, Ensign Peak. We’re not talking just a couple of billion dollars, we’re talking in the range of 100-150 billion US dollars in marketable securities.
I take a look at Canada and the people in need and the social problems that are here – the church has significant resources, it could do more. What about sending money to other organizations here in Canada? For people in need it’s onerous to access church resources (eg bishop’s storehouse).
Especially a church that bears the name of Jesus Christ. He cried out against excessive wealth.
In Canada there is an appetite for the church to do more.
Matt: You said the church has built an empire by deceiving people. When you say that, how worried are you that there could be ramifications for you speaking out in that language about a church that you are still a member of?
Nigel: I’ve seen the consequences already. There are close friends that won’t take my phone calls. The intent was never to cry out against individuals. For me, this is an institutional issue. This isn’t an attack on the doctrine. This isn’t an attack on the church. This is a criticism of how the church is spending its money, of which there are vast reserves. My intent is not to go after the theology of the church. My whole intent was to drive change, to see how the church can do more to help people.
Matt: Given everything that you’ve learned and said, why are you still there? Why are you still a member of the church?
Nigel: I’ve spent a lot of time trying to reconcile this with myself. A lot of it still comes down to my firm belief that there is a god. I went through the church program. When I was baptized I made covenants that essentially say that I will mourn with those who mourn and comfort those who stand in need of comfort. If my membership was revoked either voluntarily or via church discipline then all those blessings associated with my covenants would be withdrawn and I would forfeit those rights. I made covenants with God. I didn’t make covenants with the church but the church believes that they stand between me and God. If I was to forfeit my membership, if my membership was revoked through a disciplinary counsel then all those promised blessings to me would be gone. I have a hard time believing that an institution can cancel the desire of my heart to do good.
Matt: This is a hard thing for you to reconcile.
Nigel: It is.
Mark Kelly: Nigel told us he had written this email to us after thinking about it for years, to clear his conscience, because he felt he had to do the right thing. The other whistleblowers, from three different countries, have all left the church. They all felt they were doing the right thing because that is what they were taught to do this by the church so they were really fulfilling their Mormon mandate by speaking out about something they thought was wrong.
Mark: This is perfectly legal what the Mormon Church is doing. Charitable purposes can be used for funding American universities as long as they admit Canadian students. BYU took in more money from Canadian Mormons than numerous top tier schools combined.
Matt: Do we have a sense as to how much money is going down to this university?
Mark: More than $1 billion since 2007 has been transferred from this relatively small church in Canada to this university that has three campuses but primarily to the university in Utah.
Matt: How many Canadians would be attending?
Mark: 85,000 BYU students – 1.6% of the student body is Canadian.
Matt: How much money that is collected would be staying in Canada?
Mark: A little over half. Money that is used for the operation of the church and its missions in Canada.
Matt: Are there bigger issues that are at play here beyond people within the church feeling uncomfortable about where their donations are going?
Mark: We like the notion of separation of church and state but they do intersect. Donations to the church are tax deductible. Churches will alleviate social work that governments don’t have to do. The money going to BYU has cost the Canadian treasury $200 million given to Mormons. How have those tax breaks benefitted Canadians? It has benefitted a very small group of Canadians who are attending BYU and it has certainly benefitted the Mormon Church.
Ex-Mormon whistleblowers also revealed that the Mormon Church is one of the biggest landowners in the US, ranches, shopping malls, office towers. A complaint has been filed with the IRS saying the money should be used for charitable purposes but is only being used to accumulate wealth.
In Australia there is some concern that the church may be involved in tax avoidance.
There does appear to be a pattern of financial dealings in what some critics say is a glaring lack of transparency when it comes to the Mormons’ books.
Matt: How does the church respond?
Mark: The church is quite proud of its wealth. It will point to the fact that last year it gave $900 million in humanitarian aid to 200 countries. It didn’t want to tell Mormons about the $100 billion fund because if Mormons felt the church was that wealthy they wouldn’t want to tithe. Now the secret is out. The position of the Mormon Church is that this is a rainy day fund because there will be tough times. Critics say the rainy day is here now. There is a glaring need for help in our country and around the globe. The Mormon Church has the potential to do it and it could do much more.
Matt: The expectation of the members is that that is where the money is going. That it’s going to help those who need it close to home.
Mark: Exactly what Nigel said, that he thought money that he was donating to his church in Edmonton would be helping people in and around Edmonton, not going to fund a private university in the United States.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/2022 05:40PM by Nightingale.