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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 01:32PM

NB: Christian content below***


A Christian school in Missouri added this statement to its web site last year:

"We are an affirming school. We stand with the LGBTQIA+ community and believe in their holiness. We celebrate the diversity of God's creation in all its varied and beautiful forms."

Now the school faces closure due to withdrawal of financial support from the community.


Article:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/christian-school-embraced-lgbtq-community-forced-close-doors/story?id=97037899


Excerpts:

“According to the school, that update [on its web site re inclusivity] prompted donors to stop contributing, many of them citing their interpretation of Christianity as the reason. Now, UCA has announced it will close at the end of the school year due to the loss of financial support.”


The church “describes itself as providing "a tuition-free, high-quality, Christ-centered education for low-income students."


“The school's mission statement has always stressed inclusivity.”


"We lost our network" of donors, Callaway-George [ED] told ABC News. "In December of 2021, right before we publicly supported the LGBTQ community, we raised $333,985. One year later, after we had posted on our website and made a stance, [in] December of 2022 we raised $14,809."


A rep from another school stated: "Our greatest concern about the Accepting and Affirming stance is that it denies the Biblical definitions of sin and identity and thereby renders the grace of God meaningless."


“Even though administrators expected negative reaction and some loss of resources, they believed an explicit show of support for this community was necessary because of an influx of teenage students and changes in society.”


“UCA concluded that publicizing its supportive stance was necessary for students dealing with those issues [sexuality and inclusion] to feel welcome and safe.”


“Callaway-George expressed hope that "there will be conversations in churches and around dinner tables where people ask critical questions about what they believe and how their beliefs are affecting other people."


"The essence of the Christian faith is promoting and offering love," she said.

-----

I've never understood how you can preach love yet scorn and restrict and expel people who have different beliefs and approaches to life than your own.

I do understand the imperative to 'protect' the institution, especially if you feel its appearance must be flawless and its reputation sterling. But why can't you say here are the values of the church as a whole (love and peace would be my vote) and we understand that people are individuals. That could set your principles out clearly and you wouldn't have to worry about each individual potentially tarnishing your reputation. That is what the objections of church leaders and members are based on, in my experience. IOW, how people perceive the church is based on their experience with an individual inside it. That is the leaders' take on it and indeed that is reality, in part. But a hardline approach to 'how we appear' causes issues such as the unfortunate one with this school.

Its the immovable object - the church's "reputation" - putting that above all other considerations, that causes most of the problems, in my view. The imperative to protect the institution over the person is the result. We can see how well that works out (not).

This approach boils down to a message of exclusivity, not inclusivity. Surely that cannot be right. We love every precious soul the Lord creates but you're not welcome here.

Does not compute.

As usual, it comes down to a question of interpretation. The fact that there can be so many interpretations surely goes against a message that everything is written in stone. But many religious people, in my experience, grab that rock and cling onto it above all other things in life, not re-evaluating, not evolving. I think it has the effect of shutting off part of the brain as in once decided never revisited. I'm not just throwing that out there to be offensive and don't mean to be but of course it sounds like it to people protecting their beliefs and approaches when it comes to the sometimes contentious issues around religious belief. But if you accept a certain idea 100% and never re-evaluate there's no hope of growth or needed change.

If I had never considered alternative viewpoints and evaluated new information I would still be a JW. That would have been a negative outcome for my life and would also have adversely affected others, not to mention being a major waste of time. There's a reason the overseers want members to make a definitive choice and fully commit to it forever despite all else.

My takeaways from Christian belief are as follows:

Do unto others. Love your neighbour.

I don't know why the basics have to be any more complex than that. That encompasses everything for me. The rest is just an interesting (to me) mix of traditional beliefs and observances in many different forms.

If we put those two precepts into practice maybe then we wouldn't see schools closing down for being 'inclusive' because the people with the loudest voices think their religious beliefs dictate the opposite.

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Posted by: PHIL ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 02:23PM

Go woke go broke.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 02:35PM

Do as Jesus would have done, go broke.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 03:24PM

PHIL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Go woke go broke.

Yup. Spread the love.

Our way or the highway.

WWJD.

Even Christians can't agree.

Which should be fine.

But to many, it isn't.

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 04:55PM

>> ...many of them citing their interpretation of Christianity as the reason. <<

What about the schools interpretation of Christianity?

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Posted by: George Rosso ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 05:08PM


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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 05:10PM

Has anyone in this thread said anything different?

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Posted by: George Rosso ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 05:11PM


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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 05:28PM

Saying someone has acted badly is not the same as denying his right to do so.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 06:15PM

> Saying someone has acted badly
> is not the same as denying his
> right to do so.

And I appreciate that!

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 05:21PM

The main topic isn't about money.

Nobody is saying a person shouldn't have control over their own financial decisions.

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Posted by: George Rosso ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 05:38PM

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody is saying a person shouldn't have control
> over their own financial decisions.

Tell that to the people we pay tax to.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 05:42PM

Last I checked, Canada was a democracy.

No?

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Posted by: George Rosso ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 06:06PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Last I checked, Canada was a democracy.

As someone once said, "Whoever you vote for, the government gets in." The same applies to all western countries. You can change horses, but you'll still have many of the same bureaucrats in most of the same jobs whether you want them or not.

Candidates promise many things, but they rarely practise what they promise. I don't remember any of them saying that they support a bloated/corrupt bureaucracy or will fund projects that almost none of the public want. The military is especially bad for that.

My bank got taken over recently and the service is now terrible. Many other people say the same thing. At least we have the option to go to another bank. We do not have that option with government agencies.

As for this school, I don't know what the full story is, and I don't believe this report tells you that.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 06:16PM

George Rosso Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for this school, I don't know what the full
> story is, and I don't believe this report tells
> you that.

Maybe you could research it and let us know.

I would like to know "the full story". The more info the better. The account I saw seemed to cover the basics. Maybe you can delve a bit and come up with some additional info.

That wouldn't change my basic outlook on this type of occurrence in general.

Maybe more specifics about this individual matter would change opinions either way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2023 06:17PM by Nightingale.

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Posted by: George Rosso ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 06:29PM

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> George Rosso Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As for this school, I don't know what the full
> > story is, and I don't believe this report tells
> > you that.
>
> Maybe you could research it and let us know.
>
> I would like to know "the full story". The more
> info the better. The account I saw seemed to cover
> the basics. Maybe you can delve a bit and come up
> with some additional info.

I doubt it. Most newspaper articles use the same press agency copy in my experience.

I suspect a major personal dispute or political argument is behind this. It would be interesting to know how many donors we're talking about. If it's one or two, then that is a very different proposition from, say, twenty. Was there a big meeting with people shouting at each other?

A lot of places are in financial trouble right now. It may not even be connected with the LGBT issue. I know for a fact most of our local private schools are struggling, simply because many parents can't afford to send their kids to them. One of them shut down a year or two back because of unpaid fees.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 07:05PM

George Rosso Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It would be interesting
> to know how many donors we're talking about. If
> it's one or two, then that is a very different
> proposition from, say, twenty. Was there a big
> meeting with people shouting at each other?
>
> A lot of places are in financial trouble right
> now. It may not even be connected with the LGBT
> issue.

The ED of the school stated:

"We lost our network" of donors...In December of 2021, right before we publicly supported the LGBTQ community, we raised $333,985. One year later, after we had posted on our website and made a stance, [in] December of 2022 we raised $14,809."

Before the statement of support for the LGBTQ community:

$333,985 raised

The following year, **after** posting an inclusive message on their web site:

$14,809 raised

A bit of a drop.

School officials said they expected to lose up to 50% of their funding but instead the loss was much greater.

It says a lot about them that even in the face of potential loss of donors they still went ahead with their statement of support for a group of students who just want to go to school.

It reminds me of an Indigenous woman I met last summer at an event in my city. She was telling me that she and her friends had opened a market stall there to inform people about their community and to distribute some booklets and souvenirs. "We just want to say we're human too" she stated. That actually made me cry. It is so inestimably sad that one human being feels they need to utter those words to another human.

I can imagine those young students at this school they reportedly love having to think, or say, hey we're human too.

It hurts me that Christians can't agree even with one another that we can at least offer the very basics of civility to fellow humans. We're all made, apparently, in the image of God.

Even Focus on the Family, a fundamentalist Protestant organization states:

"The New Testament confirms that God's image isn't lost by pointing out that all people, not just Christians, “are made in the likeness of God.”

ALL PEOPLE, "not just Christians".

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 06:22PM

Okay, so you don't like representative democracy.

No one's going to be surprised by that.


----------------
> As for this school, I don't know what the full
> story is, and I don't believe this report tells
> you that.

And yet you feel perfectly comfortable reaching conclusions on evidence that you claim is inadequate for anyone else.

Again, no one is going to be surprised.

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Posted by: George Rosso ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 06:41PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Okay, so you don't like representative democracy.

Nope, I don't like systems which PRETEND to be representative democracy and aren't.

Noam Chomsky has pointed out that western governments take tax money and spend it on private project, where the profit goes to the corporations and the debt to the public. This is common, yet you won't see it in any electoral manifesto.

We even have unelected bureaucrats in this country who openly boast to something called "psychological nudging". This is a means of changing public behavior by increment. Silly me, I thought we were supposed to influence the government in our "representative democracy", not vice versa.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 07:00PM

It's tempting to note that you haven't even attempted to justify your double standard regarding evidence--too little is known for anyone but you to reach correct conclusions--but your reference to Chomsky literally has me laughing out loud.

Chomsky would wipe the floor with you. Reactionaries like to cite him when his views coincide with theirs, but you cannot reasonably cherry-pick the fruit and deny the left-wing tree. This is almost as hilarious as your misreading of Orwell, another leftist who you mistakenly believe agreed with your right-wing paranoia.

You are the cutest!

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Posted by: bradley ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 08:01PM

Evidence? We don't have no evidence. We don't need no evidence. I don't have to show you any stinking evidence!

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Posted by: George Rosso ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 06:57PM

By the way, I know of a number of private schools which are in trouble. They are businesses after all and we've lost one in five businesses here due to the worldwide financial crisis.

We lost one of our local girls' schools recently. It had been going for nearly a century, but it was so traditional no one could call it "woke". A number of parents didn't pay their fees on time, so it went bankrupt. Maybe this school has had the exact same problem.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 07:08PM

Most private schools are nonprofit, but running a school is an expensive endeavor. For one thing, you need to hire educated people, normally with Bachelor's and Master's degrees and appropriate certifications, and that comes with a certain price tag. Plus, the process of educating students is very labor intensive, and even the most devoted teachers have their limits in that regard.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 07:00PM

It's a nice concept (running a small, tuition-free Christian school aimed at helping poor children,) but from reading the article in the Kansas City Star, it sounds like the school was wholly unequipped to do just that.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/education/article272221563.html

There was an unusually high turnover of staff, and lots of complaints from staff.

"The Star spoke with six employees, who alleged school leaders created an unhealthy and toxic environment over the past decade, causing ongoing staff turnover. They described, in interviews and in resignation letters, a tense workplace with unreasonably high expectations, where leaders were overly controlling, disregarded employees’ concerns and lacked transparency."

Staff members mentioned a lack of services that would typically be provided by an urban public school for high-needs children.

So, despite the unfortunate closure due to the intolerance of the school's benefactors of the LGBTQ+ community, I'm not convinced that the outcome was a bad thing. It was a noble experiment that was apparently underfunded and mismanaged from the get-go.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2023 07:04PM by summer.

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Posted by: Nightingale ( )
Date: March 01, 2023 07:08PM

I appreciate your additional information, summer. Thank you for your useful observations informed by your own experience in this field.

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